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[GS] Poorly implemented climate change?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Howitzer, Feb 20, 2019.

  1. acluewithout

    acluewithout Deity

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    Isn't it canals, flood barriers, dams?
     
  2. agonistes

    agonistes wants his subs under ice!

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    Yes.

    In all fairness, the map tells you which tiles are going to be swallowed. Not the system's fault you ignored it. But I do agree it would be nice to be able to rebuild a district. Other than that, though, I like the new climate and ND systems. This may change once the ynaemp giant earth map is bug free and I play on it. If rising sea levels wreak havoc with that map...

    But... the RL impact of climate change is mostly ahead of us, right? It could be a perspective issue. Play the game again in 40 years and see what you think.
     
  3. Bechhold

    Bechhold King

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    Military Units contribution to CO2 is way too much IMO, if that is indeed the case. Last game had 2 jet fighters, bomber, 1 tank, 2 machine guns, and 1 mechanized infantry. No power plants and they contributed over 600 CO2. What?

    If population size is the problem the first game I played I only had 4 cities and had built plants, and had well over 2k in CO2. With Nuke plants... With renewable energy being built all over the place you think it would start mitigating power plants in your cities thus lowering your CO2 output, but no.
     
  4. Tech Osen

    Tech Osen Emperor

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    Did you build railroads?
     
  5. Bechhold

    Bechhold King

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    Nope.
     
  6. King of Prussia

    King of Prussia Warlord

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    i forgot about dams being rushed by them, tho i haven't really needed the boost when building dams.

    as for flood barriers. i booted up my ottoman game, and im not seeing a button to rush them. Rome made this fantastic city.... which then lost its tiles. My bridge to no where is also pretty nice.

     
  7. Tech Osen

    Tech Osen Emperor

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    Barriers are a city building, not a tile improvement/district, so I would have been surprised if the engineer would have worked.
     
  8. acluewithout

    acluewithout Deity

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    My mistake then. I thought FXS had said they could rush them, but hadn’t tested it yet.
     
  9. Ondolindë

    Ondolindë Emperor

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    Exactly, what is up with the Golden Gate Bridge there. Suicide missions?
     
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  10. Jkchart

    Jkchart Emperor

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    I like the system, but I agree that it happens way too fast and that the rising cost of flood barriers at each level makes it way too unrealistically difficult to actually attempt to save cities. It shouldn't be easy to erect massive flood barriers everywhere, but it shouldn't be as difficult as it is. I do like the late-game threat it gives to my builder-style play (I like coastal cities); it needs some tweaking.

    The CO2 production from units needs a lot of tweaking. A LOT. I didn't build a lot of coal power plants, but my units and railroads were apparently enough to cause severe climate collapse. I didn't even have that many units (Also, I blame Gitarjah, she had a massive Co2 output from God knows what - I laughed when one of her cities basically sank into the sea, which was actually kind of cool/scary). That is just totally unrealistic. Units should not contribute to climate change more than a minuscule amount. Burning coal for one battleship won't cause massive climate collapse. Railroads? I understand, but even then those probably contribute more than necessary for the mechanic to work.

    The only district I've actually lost due to flooding so far is a Neighborhood, so I didn't notice that bug. That needs to be fixed, ASAP.
     
  11. DrBaryon

    DrBaryon Chieftain

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    It would have been interesting if the climate gets out of control to have "randomized climate change scenarios" like the randomized future tech they introduced. Then introduce some really devastating random effects, like collapse of ocean currents, the clathrate gun, major losses in farm productivity, etc once you pass the current stages.

    As it stands climate change happens way too fast, then suddenly stops for some reason, creating little incentive to actually actively stop it.
     
  12. Howitzer

    Howitzer Chieftain

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    I'm about to achieve domination victory with the Ottomans, minimum emissions, no climate change! Will update asap.

    What did I do?

    1) No unit upgrades after gunpowder units

    2) Powered all cities by renewables. You need about 3-4 renewable tiles for a city with full commercial, science and industrial districts..

    3) do not build power plants whatsoever

    4) invasion army is 3 gdr and lots of stealth bomberd

    Of course this was possible by the fact that I played on settler, I doubt I could afford to go with such an obsolete and small army on higher levels.

    Also out of the 9 opponent civs I had conquered all 6 just at the early modern Era so they didn't have too heavy defences for ottoman bombardier and musketman

    IT appears factories without power plants do not add to climate

    Spaceports do add uranium emissions!!

    Very few trees, rainforest were cut maybe 4
     
  13. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

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    I did some looking into the files yesterday in order to get an impression of the modability of this feature. Unfortunately, things don't look to good with regards to balancing out units and railroads.

    From what I could see, there's no entry that controls how much emission a unit. There are entries the controls emission from each resource, and there are entries that controls the thresholds for each climate change level based on map size. So these things can be changed.

    But the fact that there's nothing based on individual buildings or units makes me believe that these data are drawn directly from the resource numbers, unless there are additional stats in the .dll that are currently not available. This might imply that any feature that draws an upkeep of 1 coal creates the same emission, which would mean that a Battleship creates same emission as a Coal Power Plant - I really hope this is wrong, because if it's so, it's extremely lame.

    Anyway, bottom line is, as far as I can see, the only options there are to easily modify the balance between units and buildings is to change resource requirement to remove upkeep for units.
     
  14. King of Prussia

    King of Prussia Warlord

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    climate change hit a few turns before it was done. Now it makes for an amazing look out point.

    I find it amusing that the bridge also rotates.(compared to my other pic)

    here is what it was like when i finished it.

     
  15. Rambo919

    Rambo919 Warlord

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    Too fast is an under statement, I haven't even reached nuclear yet and already I am at level 3 warming. Comparing it to current day real world.... nothing has flooded yet. All I did was build a single railway accross my territory and build a navy equal to my coal income..... nothing major yet. I even didnt build a single coal power plant and yet I'm the leading "climate criminal". This is a mid game challenge instead of a late-game one but the solutions only come in late game.....

    I can only assume that someone will wake up and slow it down as well as making barriers easier and earlier as well as introducing draining.... taking a real world example most of the netherlands is under sea-level protected by levee's and barriers, previously it was all semi-flooded.

    And unrelated..... the queuing is annoying as hell. Im' going back to the previous queue mod. And I find it hilarious that you can build tunnels through giant mountains (something that most countries today would struggle with) but you need flat tiles for canals.
     
  16. MisterBoomBoom

    MisterBoomBoom King

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    Too many cattle...but I digress. :groucho:
     
  17. TheDisco

    TheDisco Warlord

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    Yup I broke down and bought this game despite my misgivings on the climate change implementation. After playing a few games now my fears were realized: the CO2 impacts start ridiculously early. In the real world, despite a hundred years of constant deforestation and burning CO2 like a drunken sailor, there has been mere inches of sea level rise (and mostly due to thermal expansion rather than ice melt). In my last game (Immortal difficulty, Level 2 disasters) the ocean rise was over 2 meters before even getting to nuclear power. As implemented it certainly feeds into the "fake news" view of climate change: maybe they based the Civ 6 CO2 model off of Al Gores models which were laughably alarmist and already proven incorrect via the passage of time since he made them.

    Meantime, the actual gameplay impact is minor (very few tiles actually flood) and there are no votes available in World Congress that could impose draconian measures as policies. It actually would have been more realistic to have implemented no actual CO2 impacts on sea levels at all, but instead only implement World Congress votes that might cripple the world economy over an overblown threat. So far in the real world that is all we know for sure: CO2 causes us to consider major policy changes over its mere threat, before the threat even materializes.

    But I've adapted to their implementation. I now just view it as a bizzaro world that might have been, where CO2 impacts materialize instantly, and view any floodable tiles as tiles to never put anything important on. Then I can simply ignore the sea level rise completely. Too bad, they missed an opportunity to make this expansion much better than it is.

    But I still enjoy the expansion overall I must admit, despite their missteps on climate change.
     
  18. acluewithout

    acluewithout Deity

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    I haven’t played enough to gauge whether climate change is a big deal or not, but so far looks like bust. Comes to early, you can’t avoid it, and doesn’t actually have any impact.

    It’s a bit limited given it doesn’t change land tiles (plains become desert etc). I thought in the livestream they said that was too hard to do, which might be right. But climate change should have impact beyond just coastal cities. Look at the crazy hot weather in eg Australia and bush fires. Climate change is categorically not just about sea levels.
     
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  19. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    There's nothing controversial about climate change. Average surface temperature of Earth is 14.9 C. We operate at 37 C and we are burning everything for the last several thousand years.
    It's textbook schizophrenia to do things in the exactly same way and expect different results.

    One might argue that there are greater forces at play, sure, an asteroid hitting Earth could cool the planet down.

    But there 1.2 billion cars on the planet, among other things, each producing 700 C every second while working. First law of thermodynamics.
     
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  20. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Deity

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    I agree, that's why the quotes.
     
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