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Popping techs on Emperor+

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Molybdeus, Nov 11, 2009.

  1. Molybdeus

    Molybdeus Prince

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    I dislike starting with Hunting because on Emperor or harder because I very rarely get a free technology from huts. At Emperor you are facing AI's that start with two scouts and you have only a 1 in 7 chance of a tech per hut. Assuming equal chances of finding techs for each scout, to get 1 free tech on Emperor you would -on average- have to find 7 huts and each AI 14 huts . Since there aren't going to be nearly that many huts on the map barring hijinx of some kind, that averages out to far less than 1 tech per game.

    Yet in following obsolete's deity games, it seems that many deity players routinely get free techs -even multiple free techs- when they start with a scout.

    Essentially, I'd like to know how. Do some of you high levels players have a secret to finding huts?
     
  2. Fleme

    Fleme Obey the Kitty!

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    There's no secret. The odds get lower the higher you move up the ladder but there's still the chance of getting it. Call it luck if you will.
     
  3. karadoc

    karadoc AI programmer

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    I've got tech from huts plenty of times on emperor. I think the chance of popping techs is valuable enough to justify the cost of a scout even then.

    As for AI getting twice as many huts because they have two scouts; do you reckon that's true? It kind of assumes that the AI is just as good at hut-hunting as a human. I don't think it is. For example, when I meet an AI scout, I do some rough guesses as to what land it has already explored and I go somewhere else to maximize my chances of getting huts. I don't think the AI does that kind of thing.
     
  4. Molybdeus

    Molybdeus Prince

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    It isn't exactly doubled, of course. But even with the AI having a slight disadvantage due to the lack of intelligence, you ought to get roughly one tech every two games on Emperor. (I average a tad over three huts per game on Emperor when starting with a scout.) I just don't see how people can consistently get a bonus tech on games above Monarch.
     
  5. vicawoo

    vicawoo Chieftain

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    There's sort of a pattern to hut distribution. In warlords it was in pretty set L shapes, it seems a little bit more random now but you can still guess decently.
     
  6. OJimiJam

    OJimiJam Warlord

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    And even then being able to pop gold to run 100% longer (or avoid events) and get better early exploration is still useful. I find it best to think of the scout as better exploration + gold with techs as a bonus.
     
  7. Shafi

    Shafi King

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    Actually since i moved to Monarch - i prefer having a scout to start with (i never build them) cos my warriors pop huts with hostile villagers quite often, so i'd rather at least have some free gold than a dead warrior :D.
     
  8. beestar

    beestar subdeity

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    Also, after the exploration phase is over, scouts can fogbust just as well as warriors can. When the barb archers come on Emperor, it won't matter whether you've got warriors or scouts defending ...
     
  9. Silu

    Silu Deity

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    Oh, it matters. WM Warriors have decent chances to survive fortified on forest hills, whereas nothing can save the poor Scouts.

    That said, starting with a Scout is IMO more useful on high levels than low levels. On high levels the probability of bad luck results (=barbarians) are much higher than on low levels so a Scout increases your tech prob from a hut by a lot. On deity the chance of a Warrior popping a tech is 10% when a Scout has ~17%, actually higher than a Scout on Chieftain (~15.8%). On Monarch the probabilities are 10% and 13%.

    All providing my memory isn't faulty when I remember that with Scouts bad results are simply rerolled.
     
  10. batavier

    batavier Warlord

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    I wonder if you should pop a hut at all on diety with a warrior if the hut is more than 7 tiles from your first city. I think there's about 40% chance of getting killed.
     
  11. beestar

    beestar subdeity

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    I never seem to be able to rely on that ... clearly I'm not making the proper virgin sacrifices to the RNG!
     
  12. framserv

    framserv Chieftain

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    I'm loving my current game on emperor - got AH and HR from the first two huts. Am currently rampaging around with HA's against archers. Should give up really but its fun to have an easy win once in a while.
     
  13. Silu

    Silu Deity

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    Well you can't&shouldn't rely on it... it's still nicer to have an actual chance of winning - something like 70% fortified on a forest hill even without promos IIRC which is significant. You're better off saving your virgins, nothing can make the RNG your friend :)
     
  14. champ82

    champ82 Immortal Ruler

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    I often pop a tech with scouts on immortal. At immortal you need all the help you can get.
     
  15. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Even you're underestimating it.

    A warrior fortified in flatland forest defends at 3.5 strength if you set it there in time to grow the fortification bonuses. It defends at 4 str against archers if in forest/jungle hills, and will win closer to 90% of the time. Without promos, that is. AGG warriors have even more of an edge here, and with cover it gets pretty easy.
     
  16. Nares

    Nares Emperor

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    They're not posting the games where they didn't get free techs.
     
  17. slobberinbear

    slobberinbear Ursine Skald

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    I like Scouts, but I may be in the minority. If you get a few of them out early, you can uncover the map MUCH faster than with warriors, and have a crack at a free tech (or two).

    While everyone complains about Scouts' durability, the truth is that on higher difficulties warriors are all dead meat too, especially once axemen appear. I say get scouts out, manually control them for survivability, and pop them huts!

    Occasionally, I have ended up with 5+ scouts due to huts giving me free scouts ... lol ... and then you'll have turns where three scouts all die at once ... c'est la vie!
     
  18. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    What constitutes high difficulties? Above deity:confused:?

    I've lost count of the number of times I've wrecked the barbs with nothing but warriors on immortal, and that includes BOTH of my youtube videos at that difficulty incidentally. Land rarely lasts long enough to spawn barb axes, and by then you could be deep into IW even, let alone pick up archery at convenience.

    On deity it's possible with some starts and not with others and actually requires somewhat of a judgment call. Sometimes I go commerce-heavy priority on immortal and want archers too. Otherwise, warriors alone are fine. I think maybe I fight about 5 non-animal barbs per game, if that, outside of cities, and only some of those are even archers.

    On a huge map it's a little harder, but the fact remains that warriors used intelligently are *not* toast vs barbs under normal conditions.

    I wouldn't call a unit that can take care of 100% of your barb problems (often including galleys) in a majority of games "dead meat", and I think anyone else would have a hard time making a case otherwise ;).
     

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