Galacticat42
Drifting through space, lost
Added.
Always a good idea to check usernames before adding them to the project.
Always a good idea to check usernames before adding them to the project.
Possible Future Direction (personal view)
- Thread starter Koshling
- Start date
RidetheSpiral23
C2C Map Team
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2012
- Messages
- 389
So I know I haven't been around much and I apologize (especially to tbird who I was going to help with stuff in exchange for him being my tutor). Although, I have been checking in. I honestly just couldnt stand the state of the mod. Its not balanced and too much time is spend adding additional items instead of ironing out existing features, buildings, etc. Anyway I just felt it best to stay out of it.
Anyways, are the big programming guys up for this still. This project isn't going to get off the ground without certain people (e.g. Koshling for his AI work). It would be a good idea to gather up answers from people on if they are in or not.
Anyways, are the big programming guys up for this still. This project isn't going to get off the ground without certain people (e.g. Koshling for his AI work). It would be a good idea to gather up answers from people on if they are in or not.
Faustmouse
Deity
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2012
- Messages
- 3,524
Hi spiral, are you still planning to do your balance-mod? I hope so because I liked the idea most!
RidetheSpiral23
C2C Map Team
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2012
- Messages
- 389
I would like to but its just to much work for one person. Maybe if I had some support. Either that or moving forward with this project or moving to civ 5.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
What sort of support do you need to work on balancing C2C? Keeping in mind that parts of the mod need to remain irrelevant for some play stiles eg combat is irrelevant for my enjoyment of the mod. I will probably be most happy if I never see any of Tbrds combat stuff appear in my games for example (no offense meant Thunderbrd) as I think combat bogs down the game. Any war where the fighting takes more than 5-10 turns on snail is too long in my opinion. I do not mind the preparation for war nor building up my defense, just the fighting of wars.
Galacticat42
Drifting through space, lost
That sounds like a certain country in real life quite a bit ago. The US citizens of the North thought the Civil war was going to be a couple-day war at fort Sumter. Turned out not so much.
RidetheSpiral23
C2C Map Team
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2012
- Messages
- 389
Yeah I understand everyone has different styles and priorities for what they want out of this game. That's not a problem. The big problem for me is the amount of stuff added "just because" without taking balance into account. I would safely say you could eliminate 500 buildings from this mod and it would make no difference. In fact it would probably make it more playable and balanced. Just look at the list of new buildings in the v34 update...
Spoiler :
Are you serious...
I understand some people are builders when they play this game. For me it depends on my mood. Either way, you can not possibly convince me all of the buildings are necessary and that you could balance the gameplay in any way shape or form. There has got to be a better way to make the game more enjoyable for builders. Do more building upgrade chains or something. I don't know.
Azurian
The Azurian
They have building chains already.
You are doing a genetic logical fallacy btw.
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/genetic
EDIT: You do understand you are playing a BETA version that is not complete yet.
RidetheSpiral23
C2C Map Team
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2012
- Messages
- 389
Yeah that's why I said MORE.
Um thanks?? Just wow... Would you like me to tell you how smart you are?
Yes, I do. That has nothing to do with anything. It has everything to do with spending more of your time balancing existing work instead of creating new work that adds zero value. Don't get me wrong, some of the new stuff listed for v34 is awesome. That huge, redundant list of buildings is not.
Azurian
The Azurian
@RidetheSpiral23
Feedback is always welcomed. There is an Existing Building Thread and a Balace Thread. Perhaps you can suggest what specifically you want balanced and we can see what we can do.
Feedback is always welcomed. There is an Existing Building Thread and a Balace Thread. Perhaps you can suggest what specifically you want balanced and we can see what we can do.
Galacticat42
Drifting through space, lost
We'll keep your input for future consideration of the new game. However, this is not the thread for talking about balance vs content exorbitance. And to be honest, it's quite late in the game's lifetime to do a balance overhaul. It's not that it can't be done, it's just going to be harder than anything else right now.
Faustmouse
Deity
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2012
- Messages
- 3,524
But is probably the most important thing to do...
Azurian
The Azurian
It can be done using Notepad++, Nimek Parser and Grepwin pretty fast. We can probably do Hydro's folder in about a week. It depends on what he means by balance. If its building stats its easy.
Galacticat42
Drifting through space, lost
Without a doubt, but again that's off-topic to this thread.
Galacticat42
Drifting through space, lost
The thing about number swapping in XML is that it will always be unbalanced. It's inevitable. What I'm talking about is an overhaul on how the unbalanced things work so any number that buildings have will always be balanced.
EDIT: Take Blizzard for example. They number swap for balance, yet no class or race has ever been balanced in the game. Ever. Then you look at Riot and how they balance. Sure they number swap, but only as a last resort. Instead, they look for quirks that don't belong or slightly tweak the playstyle of a champion so it then becomes balanced.
platyping
Sleeping Dragon
Starcraft was a balanced game that lasted more than 10 years, with tournaments held every year.
And within this long period of time, the number of patches is less than 30 including all expansions.
And half the patches have nothing to do with swapping numbers.
Galacticat42
Drifting through space, lost
platyping
Sleeping Dragon
If you are talking about World of Warcraft, I have no idea why you are comparing a MMORPG to a strategy based game.
If you are talking about Warcraft 3, it is another epic failure to compare the balance in C2C to balance in WC3.
WC3 has 4 different races, each with totally unique playstyle, while all Civs in Civ IV are identical, where they only differ from each other by UB and UU, which C2C even removed that I believe.
Each race contains 4 different Heroes which have totally different skills, while leaders in Civ IV are just different combinations of traits.
Within each race, units have different abilities. They aren't merely duplicates with slighlty adjusted stats.
Across the races, similar units also have different abilities.
Peasants can turn to militia to fight, peons can hide inside burrows, while wisps can detonate, acolytes can build multiple buildings simultaneously.
Now look at C2C where out of the 100+ newly added buildings, they are merely duplicates of each other with 1) New Name, 2) New Icon, 3) Different Requirements 4) Slightly adjusted stats.
Even your fellow modder said they add zero value to the game, and 500 buildings can be removed and C2C is still C2C.
Under such extreme constrasts, WC3 is still a much more balanced game, which can be seen in their ladder tournaments are never dominated by a single race.
And for the same race, players do not choose the same hero to start, nor use the same units every game. Players scout their opponents to see what units they use, and produce the counter units respectively.
This is what we call balance.
If you are talking about Warcraft 3, it is another epic failure to compare the balance in C2C to balance in WC3.
WC3 has 4 different races, each with totally unique playstyle, while all Civs in Civ IV are identical, where they only differ from each other by UB and UU, which C2C even removed that I believe.
Each race contains 4 different Heroes which have totally different skills, while leaders in Civ IV are just different combinations of traits.
Within each race, units have different abilities. They aren't merely duplicates with slighlty adjusted stats.
Across the races, similar units also have different abilities.
Peasants can turn to militia to fight, peons can hide inside burrows, while wisps can detonate, acolytes can build multiple buildings simultaneously.
Now look at C2C where out of the 100+ newly added buildings, they are merely duplicates of each other with 1) New Name, 2) New Icon, 3) Different Requirements 4) Slightly adjusted stats.
Even your fellow modder said they add zero value to the game, and 500 buildings can be removed and C2C is still C2C.
Under such extreme constrasts, WC3 is still a much more balanced game, which can be seen in their ladder tournaments are never dominated by a single race.
And for the same race, players do not choose the same hero to start, nor use the same units every game. Players scout their opponents to see what units they use, and produce the counter units respectively.
This is what we call balance.
Galacticat42
Drifting through space, lost
@Platyping
You're missing my point - over your head and out the window.
This is not the thread for this topic. Discussion is over.
You're missing my point - over your head and out the window.
This is not the thread for this topic. Discussion is over.
