Possible UA changes to address concerns

Feyd Rautha

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A lot of people have been citing concerns with some UA's and so I worked out some thoughts to adjust them slightly and wanted to put it out there for general consumption and possible modding...

Possible modded changes to civilization UA’s
America: Manifest Destiny (Keep +1 sight, Remove -25% tile purchase, Add an immediate three tile border pop upon founding of a city.)

Arabia: Trade Caravans (Keep double oil resources, change +1 gold per trade route to +25% from trade routes.)

Aztec: Sacrificial Captives (Scale the culture gained with speed. +3 is really strong on Quick, but basically worthless on Marathon.)

China: The Art of War (No changes. China is OP. Nerf China! [I mean that’s where nerf is made isn’t it?])

Egypt: Monument Builders (No changes.)

England: Sun Never Sets (Add +1 sight range for embarked units and -50% build cost of Harbors? [I don’t have everyone else’s issues with England’s UA.])

France: Ancien Regime (No changes.)

Germany: Furor Tuetonicus (Captured units costs -50% in maintenance, but retain the barbarian penalty.)

Greece: Hellenic League (No changes.)

India: Population Growth (No changes.)

Iroquois: The Great Warpath (Workers can plant forests in your territory, but forests cannot be cut down in your territory.)

Japan: Bushido (No changes? Not 100% on the actual benefit of this one.)

Ottomans: Barbary Corsairs (Remove old ability, receive +5 gold when you defeat an enemy naval unit.)

Persia: Achaemenid Legacy (No changes.)

Rome: The Glory of Rome (Add “Buildings in the capital are 10% more effective” [e.g. - Monument is 2.20 culture, market is 27.5% gold improvement, factory is 44% production bonus, etc.])

Russia: Siberian Riches (Add “+1 gold from strategic resources” to existing.)

Siam: Father Governs Children (No changes, but change Wat to give +2 science per jungle tile.)

Songhai: River Warlord (Add “All land units gain the amphibious promotion and rivers count as roads” to the other abilities. [Maybe just one of the two?])

Babylon: Ingenuity (No changes.)

What are your thoughts?
 
Iroquois: Instead of "can't chop forest," how about "don't gain extra hammers from chopping forest"?
 
That does work better. I hadn't really thought about resources under forest tiles. This would give the Iroquois two UUs though now that I think about it because the worker would have to be given a specific promotion to build forests.
 
Ottomans still seems worthless. The original UA of course is worthless, but even still, I've logged 60 something hours and navies are still quite unimportant, at least not nearly enough to make 5 gold really mean anything. I've been in maybe 15 naval battles total, thats over a course of several games...
 
Ottomans still seems worthless. The original UA of course is worthless, but even still, I've logged 60 something hours and navies are still quite unimportant, at least not nearly enough to make 5 gold really mean anything. I've been in maybe 15 naval battles total, thats over a course of several games...
I have seen more action than that, but I understand... what about "Player gets 5g for every harbor in the game"? (Piracy on trade routes?)

Frankly, I'm at a loss as to why this is a UA, but when 2k gives you lemons...

Oh and Go Colts!
 
I never understood what's so bad about lemons...

I still argue that the trick is to balance by Civ, not by UA. Any Civ who's UA is weak, but doesn't have strong buildings or units? I'd argue the Iroquois change is a good one (removes geography as the concern, although it adds an odd "environmentalist" aspect to them that didn't exist, since they practiced slash and burn agriculture).
 
Think most of the UAs are fine, the changes I'd make are:

Arabia - Your change makes sense. +1 gold just isn't enough.

Aztecs - Scale the culture gained with age. +3 in ancient, +5 in classical, and so on. I'd actually prefer that it scale as a percentage of however much culture you need for the next policy, but that might be too abusable.

China - Cut the GG bonus down to 40%

Ottomans - Ugh. Needs something completely new. Not sure what, exactly. The Barbary Corsairs were basically pirates that the Ottomans had a huge degree of influence over, which is pretty challenging to reflect in game with the current mechanics. Barb navy units are the logical thing, but they're really crap. A bonus for every unit you kill with navy units perhaps?

The rest seem fine to me. I do like the suggestion of Iroquois workers being able to plant forest though.

I never understood what's so bad about lemons...

Same here, they're quite good, and they make tequila better, which is always a good thing.

I still argue that the trick is to balance by Civ, not by UA. Any Civ who's UA is weak, but doesn't have strong buildings or units?

Agreed with this, but at the same time IMO UAs need to be fun/compelling by themselves, as they're the main way of distinguishing civs, and UAs like Suleiman's dont' really affect the playing experience, for instance.
 
I think Suleiman's could affect the playing experience if it actually was good, so I'll concede that point. I guess the problem is that it encourages people to go out and do something they probably will never bother to do. I suppose the idea is to get you to easily have a strong navy to support your land force, but a navy of barb galleys isn't all that appealing either. The biggest difference I see with them is building a ship to keep my waters clear, rather than relying on city bombard.

Maybe keep the current ability, but also add 50 gold for every civ's naval ship killed. That way your goal is to build a navy to support your land troops (which isn't a bad strategy) and you'll get some free naval vessels from barbs, but you'll also gain gold during war if the enemy has any ships. Plus, it's kinda piratey.
 
Well, when I eventually get the game I'll probably be doing abit of modding. They way I think of it is that there should be a balance between civs going for different types of victories. I also (generally) give civs bigger bonuses for shorter amounts of time.

Afew of the changes I'm planning...

Give China old French UA. (Rename mandate of heaven policy to divine right (don't think that's taken ?) new name for Chinese UA Mandate of Heaven)
Give France old Persia UA.
Persia - Combat bonus vs city-states, upon capturing a city-state, receive a one-time bonus (maritime = food, cultured = culture, militaristic = free unit/s). Note - also change the UB to be a cheap courthouse replacement available earlier.

Ottomans - No building maintainence costs from puppet states. Puppet states +1 culture.

Maybe
Japan (Meji Restoration) - Research agreements give Japan a x% increase in science
Persia - Old China UA (alternatively)
 
the problem with dagrigg's and the original bushido is that both are only for a specific gametype, the original if your incredibly aggresive - and even then i havent seen it to be that useful, and dagg's if your incredibly rich
 
Well, that's the point of Civ traits. Each civ is supposed to play differently. The best are when you can look at their ability and say "play this way." Some are jack of all trade abilities and some are traits that don't really have a good purpose.
 
Well, that's the point of Civ traits. Each civ is supposed to play differently. The best are when you can look at their ability and say "play this way." Some are jack of all trade abilities and some are traits that don't really have a good purpose.

Exactly, when I play most civs I actually feel the effects of the UA, and play differently. I build more monuments with Egypt, seek out barbs with Germany, expand more with America, war more with Japan/China, and rush early policies with France.

The thing is, I don't feel any different when I play Ottomans because their UA never comes into play. Similar thing with Arabia: I don't actually notice the +1 gold per trade route because it's so minor a bonus, and the double oil rarely comes into play.

The thing with the Aztecs is that while I love the flavor of their UA, I don't think the reward is high enough (+3 culture is nothing after the first few policies), and balance wise it's strictly worse than France's UA. I do also feel they're a bit underpowered as a civ, as their UU and UB aren't exactly good enough to make up for the crap UA, like Suleiman's UUs arguably are.

Maybe keep the current ability, but also add 50 gold for every civ's naval ship killed. That way your goal is to build a navy to support your land troops (which isn't a bad strategy) and you'll get some free naval vessels from barbs, but you'll also gain gold during war if the enemy has any ships. Plus, it's kinda piratey.

That's better, though even then most civs don't build too much navy.

Easiest way to solve all of this would be to just up the barb navy spawn rate.
 
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