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Pre-ChaNES: Into the Void

Discussion in 'Never Ending Stories' started by Chandrasekhar, Dec 16, 2007.

  1. Symphony D.

    Symphony D. Deity

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    ALNITAHIA FOREVER
    OOC: Maybe, but I don't trust the rest of you to make that decision, and you didn't want to listen to a little power like Russia; you wanted to play political hardball, and we are now playing political hardball. Suck it up and deal with it. :p
     
  2. Chandrasekhar

    Chandrasekhar Determined

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    GM's note: I've begun working on the verdicts of the ICJ and ICC, and have a very good idea of what those verdicts will be, but am currently way too sleepy to do a proper job on them. Hopefully I'll have them done tomorrow afternoon, just in time for the daily rush.
     
  3. Niklas

    Niklas Fully Functional GOTM Staff

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    { OOC: I'm fine with it. But I find your method of argumentation, from an OOC perspective, to be a bit off. We (me and Iggy) tried to handle things on the level where we thought they should best be handled in the game. You didn't like what came of that, so you added an extra layer of realism (ICJ and ICC), brought things to that level, and then accused us IC of not using that level in the first place. As I said, if it were up to me, OOC, I wouldn't have brought them in. But since you have, I will IC have to deal with that. Doesn't mean I like it, or that I think it is correct to IC complain that we didn't go there. Don't change the rules of the argument in the middle of it.

    Chand, did you get a statement from the US yet? If yes, it should be public, if we are to play at that level of realism, and we should be given a chance to refute it. }
     
  4. Symphony D.

    Symphony D. Deity

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    OOC: That's true, but also irrelevant. You chose not to exercise that course for OOC reasons, but you chose not to exercise it nonetheless in the IC sense. You did not appeal to the body, and for whatever reason that may been, IC or OOC, it doesn't change the fact that you didn't. From a purely IC perspective, you tried to work it out yourselves, and I did involve them. That is the truth of the matter, and for me to thus claim it is a correct claim. Whether you think it's fair or not--which is what this is really boiling down to--is up to you, though it's a bit late at this stage. As you said, IC, you will have to deal with it, just as you will have to deal with your decision not to make that call, and just as you will have to deal with the fact that I have no qualms in pointing that out IC.

    It was your decision and apparently your decision was wrong, or at least, unqualified, because you apparently never bothered to ask. I am well within my rights to interpret that as what it is IC: the superpowers attempting to broker a solution among themselves and screw the rest of the world or protocol. And I think the game is proceeding just fine despite it considering we appear to be getting a ruling before a deadline for orders has been issued and really, this is a fair bit more interesting than arguing about access rights to a bunch of space crabs.

    Oh yeah, and you really are continuing to underestimate just how many layers of reality there are. Unfortunate really, but oh well.
     
  5. Fuschia

    Fuschia A Little Odd

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    To: The World
    From: The Islamic Confederation


    After much debate, the Islamic Confederation has decided that it will abide by no rulings by either the International Court of Justice or the International Criminal Court. The first is an arm of the United Nations, which is little more than an American puppet and an organization to which we no longer belong, and the other is a court formed by a treaty that we have not signed. We will accept arbitration and judgments by nations or organizations that are considered neutral by both sides or we will not accept it at all.

    The Russian Federation is simply attempting, once again, to push this conflict beyond the ability of returning to peace. We have plans to eliminate our nuclear stockpiles, and they insult us with this use of organizations predestined to decide in favor of the United States of America. Regardless of their decision, be it favorable to us or to the United States, we will not accept it, even if it calls for the unconditional surrender of the United States of America. That is all.
     
  6. Lord_Iggy

    Lord_Iggy Tsesk'ihe

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    OOC: We can't do a thing until Head Serf shows up, other than have pointless back-and-forth arguments.
     
  7. Fuschia

    Fuschia A Little Odd

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    OOC: They're not pointless if they are amusing. Besides, I think we have made enough statements that Head Serf can safely get his entire position out in a single post without having to many questions asked.
     
  8. Head Serf

    Head Serf Emperor

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    OOC: Sorry, I've been busy writing the update to SerfNES, and I haven't exactly caught up to all of the conversation here, but...

    From The United States of America
    To The World


    The United States requests the European Union and the nation of China to come to the assistance of the United States and the Russian Federation in destroying this insane country, bent on global destruction. They have illegally invaded the neutral country of Israel, slaughtered the people living there, and stolen perhaps hundreds of nuclear warheads.

    Right now they threaten to detonate them and destroy all life on planet earth. Their brand of Islamic politics has only caused violence during the past two hundred years, and now they seek a final, apocalyptic, climax. We urge you all to join us, to stop the Islamic Confederation before it is too late. If the world is destroyed, will it be because of the inaction of the able, because of the pacifist tendencies of the Europeans and the Chinese, or will they answer the call to arms, answer the call to defend human life on a global scale, answer the screams of our children, and of our children's children?

    We will not abide by the decision of any international judiciary, unless it is capable of dismembering the defunct Islamic Confederacy, removing nuclear weapons from their possession, and imprisoning the leadership of their current government. Until these requests are met, it will be American force of arms, combined with the support of the strong-willed Russians, that will dispose of this threat to global life.

    Any nation answering the call to arms should consult with the United States and the Russian Federation, in order that we may coordinate our plans.

    Thank you.
     
  9. Shadowbound

    Shadowbound Incorrugible

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    OOC: Gee golly gosh, I do hope that my new colony gets the 500 colonists it needs to achieve long-term genetic diversity before the world ends.
     
  10. Chandrasekhar

    Chandrasekhar Determined

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    FROM: The International Court of Justice
    TO: The Law-Abiding World

    In the case of the Russian Federation and the United States of America v. the Islamic Confederation

    As a preamble to this statement, the International Court of Justice acknowledges that the Islamic Confederation has determined to not abide by its rulings. Nonetheless, the matter in question is clearly one of international law, and so the International Court of Justice will put forward its opinion, which the members of the United Nations Security Council are hereby authorized to enforce.

    In the matter of the American invasion and occupation of Indonesia, the International Court of Justice finds that the conflict was exacerbated by both sides. However, the subsequent American invasion was unnecessary and unlawful, and so the United States is asked to withdraw its soldiers from Indonesia immediately and in an orderly manner.

    Regarding the counterinvasion from the Islamic Confederation, the International Court of Justice finds that this invasion was too late to be considered a legitimate defense of their ally. Furthermore, as a reconstruction effort was already being undertaken by the United States, the attack from the Islamic Confederation frustrated these efforts, and resulted in a greater destabilization of the region. The International Court of Justice demands that Indonesia be allowed to hold its own free elections without Islamic Confederation interference, and that the Islamic Confederation shall pay reparations to Indonesia, regardless of whether or not Indonesia rejoins the Islamic Confederation.

    Similarly, the International Court of Justice finds that the Islamic Confederation's invasion of Israel, despite Israel's unique relationship with the United States, was ultimately unjustified. The International Court of Justice rules that the Islamic Confederation must pay reparations to the state of Israel, and furthermore must return all stolen nuclear weapons to that state.

    FROM: The International Criminal Court
    TO: The Law-Abiding World

    Regarding the actions of the United States of America, the International Criminal Court finds that the war between this country and Indonesia can be blamed on both parties. The International Criminal Court intends to conduct a more thorough investigation once relations have stabilized, but as of this ruling finds no criminal action from the governments of the United States or Indonesia.

    Regarding the actions of the Islamic Confederation, the International Criminal Court finds that its war against the nation of Israel was a clear crime of aggression. The Court finds that the Confederation's sanctioning of and likely sponsorship of terrorist actions against the innocent civilians of the United States is both criminal and immoral. The Court finds that the Confederation's threatened use of stolen nuclear weapons for the purpose of genocide on a worldwide scale is also an unprecedented war crime. Thus, the International Criminal Court demands that the Islamic Confederation surrender several specified members of its high command over to the Court so that they may be dealt justice.

    {OOC Note: As a gameplay effect, this would result in Fuschia being ejected from his position as head of the Islamic Confederation, though it would not destroy the IC itself, and Fuschia could take another place in the NES.}

    Alas, not yet.

    Edit: Crosspost with Head Serf, interestingly enough.
     
  11. Head Serf

    Head Serf Emperor

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    I'm sorry, but what statement is needed?

    EDIT: OOC : Good job on the courts' decrees!
     
  12. Fuschia

    Fuschia A Little Odd

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    OOC: Not that it really matters at this point, but the ICJ and the ICC can only judge cases in which both sides are a member of the United Nations(in the first instance) or a party to the ICC (in the second). I'll get some counter-diplo up in a short while.
     
  13. Symphony D.

    Symphony D. Deity

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    FROM: Russian Federation
    TO: Global Transmission

    The Russian Federation hereby acknowledges the findings of the International Court of Justice and the International Criminal Court, and officially states it will take whatever measures are necessary to ensure the mandates of both judicial bodies. The Russian government officially issues a call for all nations likewise accepting the ruling of these bodies to stand with it on the matter of their enforcement, and if necessary to follow it in seeing that the resolution of international justice be served faithfully.
     
  14. Niklas

    Niklas Fully Functional GOTM Staff

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    From: China
    To: The United States of America


    You seem to prudently forget that the Islamic Confederation has already stepped down from their threat, and have already agreed to the handing over of their stolen weaponry. An invasion of the IC at this point would serve no purpose other than risk the lives of millions of civilians, except possibly to further the political goals of the United States and their allies. There will be no world destroyed, unless because of the reckless warmongering of the United States.

    From: China
    To: Global transmission


    China strongly encourages the United States and the Islamic Confederation to abide by the rulings of the ICJ. Both Indonesia and Israel must be allowed to rebuild in peace.

    China also strongly encourages the Islamic Confederation to abide by the rulings of the ICC. However, China strongly opposes a military solution to enforce the ruling, which would only serve to kill millions of civilians, and lead to another generation born in hate and vengeance. Strong diplomatic pressure should be applied, including trade embargos, but a military solution is no solution to anything, other than again to further the political goals of the United States and their allies.
     
  15. Fuschia

    Fuschia A Little Odd

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    From: The Islamic Confederation


    The Islamic Confederation will not abide by the rulings of these International bodies, for several reasons. The first reason is that the mandate of each body extends only to those nations who agree to such extension, which we have not. It is specifically written that, in cases such as these, neither court holds the jurisdiction to present a ruling upon the actions of the Islamic Confederation or the United States of America. This is, obviously, nothing but another ploy by the United States of America and its allies to attempt the continuation of conflict.

    We have agreed to hand over our nuclear weapons to a neutral third part, and will allow mediation only by a neutral third party. As we have stated, both of these courts are being used by the United States of America to reach a decision that will both make it look as though it is not favorable to themselves as well as ensure that any continuation of the conflict will seem as though they bring justice to the world when, in fact, they wish only to bring destruction.

    Not only did they start this war, it is their intention of finishing it by preventing peace, as they have showed on numerous occasions. They are the war mongers, not the Islamic Confederation. They wish to see the destruction of hundreds of thousands of lives and the efforts of those lives, not the Islamic Confederation. Our targeting of civilians and their infrastructure, as well as the threat of nuclear weapons was, to risk sounding too much like the United States of America, for the greater good of all nations. The United States of America will not stop its genocidal rampage until all other unique cultures, religions, ethnicities, and ways of life are destroyed. It is to prevent this that we will continue to fight until the death of the last soldier, with the hope that others will see the coming disaster and avert it. That is all.
     
  16. Chandrasekhar

    Chandrasekhar Determined

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    {OOC: It may be that I have misinterpreted my findings on these two organizations, but I will try to clarify here. Firstly, while the ICJ is designed to mediate between two complying nations, or between two nations in the UN, it is certainly entitled to make judgements where its jurisdiction doesn't technically extend. Naturally, they have no power to make you obey those judgements, but the same entities that do have such power may also listen to the court's ruling and decide to enforce it.

    Regarding the ICC, its task is to prosecute individuals, so the nationality of those individuals is only relevent as far as it makes it difficult to apprehend them. Again, it has no appreciable direct authority over the Islamic Confederation, but it can issue arrest warrants for the IC's leaders.

    And anyway, keep in mind that both of these organizations have probably been reformed over the past century in order to be somewhat more useful.

    Head Serf: A 45 minute crosspost is still a crosspost. :p Your previous post certainly qualifies as a diplomatic statement.}
     
  17. Abaddon

    Abaddon Deity

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    How many more updates before we begin ChaNES?
     
  18. Chandrasekhar

    Chandrasekhar Determined

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    5 to 8, I'd say. I still haven't decided for sure.
     
  19. Fuschia

    Fuschia A Little Odd

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    OOC: Will you take the situation at the last update completely and use it for the NES, or will you take the situation at the end, move through a few hundred years, and use that for the NES?
     
  20. Chandrasekhar

    Chandrasekhar Determined

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    I'll probably transition directly from the ending date (2140 or 2160, I'm thinking) to the NES itself.
     

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