1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Pre-ChaNES: Into the Void

Discussion in 'Never Ending Stories' started by Chandrasekhar, Dec 16, 2007.

  1. Lord_Iggy

    Lord_Iggy Tsesk'ihe

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2005
    Messages:
    24,568
    Location:
    Yukon
    The European Union believes that, like so many nations in the past, the Islamic Confederation is making threats that it will not follow through on. You make a machine analogy, which is incoherent with the behaviour of human beings. The European Union will clarify that it will not allow nations who commit war crimes to go unpunished for their actions. We believe that the Islamic Confederation will pay a price for its launching of a war of revenge, following the war in Indonesia, whether by its own hand, that of America and Russia, or that of international agreement.

    You call us pacifists. We are, ideally. But that doesn't mean that we do not act through non-military means, and military if absolutely necessary.
     
  2. Symphony D.

    Symphony D. Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2003
    Messages:
    8,991
    Location:
    ALNITAHIA FOREVER
    FROM: Russian Federation
    TO: European Union
    CC: Global Transmission

    And yet the European Union has taken no steps and based on its response will not take steps to ensure that the Confederation will be punished for its transgressions to any capacity, despite believing there to be no threat. So that we are all clear on this matter, is this an admission that it isn't that you can't demand justice, but that you won't?

    That was already accommodated for in our initial philosophical experiment. It is a simple matter to replace the machine with a soldier, who will merely claim he was following orders, as did Adolf Eichmann, or with a mass-murderer who will never display any hint of regret or remorse for his actions, of which there are innumerable examples in human history.

    That rebuttal is no rebuttal at all.

    "Let someone else do it later," is not an answer. This is a technique that is referred to in the West as "passing the buck."

    Europe is not willing to compromise its moral standards in one arena (pacifism), thusly it compromises them in another (rule of law) and expects that some other, separate group will compensate for its moral flexibility? That it will continue to be taken seriously by any free-thinking citizen who recognizes that all of modern society is built upon those laws?

    Is this truly Europe's answer?

    But as has been shown by this incident, the European Union's government will go to any lengths to avoid doing so, including undermining and compromising the very ideals and foundations upon which that government is founded?

    If this is the best response the European Parliament and diplomatic corps can deliver in response to the accusations we have leveled, we do not need to hear anything else.
     
  3. Lord_Iggy

    Lord_Iggy Tsesk'ihe

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2005
    Messages:
    24,568
    Location:
    Yukon
    We believe that history will show that our actions are the correct ones. We also believe that, should our assumptions turn out to be terribly wrong, we will elect a new government with a more similar mentality to yours. The European is not foregoing justice, peace talks should also include tribunals on war crimes.

    Perhaps we should wait until the USA has made a statement regarding our offer.
     
  4. North King

    North King blech

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2004
    Messages:
    18,148
    All right, but I more was asking whether the stats for a corporation would look anything like a nation's; do we use the same template?

    Indeed. I'll work off of the assumption that those interplanetary craft are extremely expensive at this point.

    That's what I thought, thanks. :)
     
  5. Chandrasekhar

    Chandrasekhar Determined

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2006
    Messages:
    4,415
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    A corporation will not have stats on Earth, but any colonies under its control will have stats very similar to those of the colonies set up by the current powers, yes.
     
  6. Symphony D.

    Symphony D. Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2003
    Messages:
    8,991
    Location:
    ALNITAHIA FOREVER
    FROM: Russian Federation
    TO: European Union
    CC: Global Transmission

    Very well, we acknowledge the European Union's admission of its lack of ability to defend its actions in the present.

    ---

    FROM: Russian Federation
    TO: United Nations General Assembly
    CC: Global Transmission

    Ladies and gentlemen of the General Assembly. This special meeting of this body has been invoked at request of the Russian Federation, by myself, at the express request of the President of the Russian Federation, Aleksandr Volkov.

    I will keep what I have to say brief and to the point: the Russian Federation has uncovered information that both the People's Republic of China and the European Union have been overtly supplying raw materials to the Islamic Confederation's orbital dry-dock around Venus which could have no purpose other than the explicit use of construction of the Confederation's Sharia-class destroyers. A dossier of publicly available documents detailing the extent of these operations has been provided to each member of this General Assembly.

    Spoiler Evidence :
    OOC: You may pretend something more substantial and official is here. "Josh" is Chandrasekhar and he may verify this text if its veracity is in doubt.


    This flagrant continued contribution to the war effort of an organization which so shamelessly invaded the United Nations member Israel is quite frankly astonishing and repugnant, and serves to demonstrate to the Russian government's satisfaction that the European Union can no longer be trusted with the negotiation of an end to this conflict when they have been playing and profiting off of both sides, along with the People's Republic of China.

    The Russian Federation therefore moves for an immediate inquiry into these events and announces it will be submitting a Resolution to the United Nations Security Council requiring all United Nations members to enact an immediate embargo upon all nations currently allied under the Islamic Confederation's banner.

    That is all. Good day.

    ---

    FROM: Russian Federation
    TO: International Court of Justice
    CC: Global Transmission

    In light of the clear nature of the conflict between the United States of America and the Russian Federation against the Islamic Confederation, and citing the European Union's clear conflict of interest regarding arbitration of the issue of a settlement between those groups, officially does hereby request the involvement of the ICJ in determining any peaceful resolution to the ongoing crisis. It is readily apparent that a single given nation, particularly one which is aiding and abetting the conflict in the fashion in which the European Union is doing so is unfit to broker any peace deal to solve it.

    ---

    FROM: Russian Federation
    TO: International Criminal Court
    CC: Global Transmission

    To assist in the prosecution of justice of the criminals responsible for the illegal invasion of Israel and the unlawful theft of Israeli nuclear weapons with the intent of usage--either actual or threatened--for blackmail and indiscriminate genocide, the Russian Federation hereby officially calls upon and petitions the International Criminal Court to begin issuing arrest warrants for all leaders of the the Islamic Confederation, and requests that it begin coordination with Interpol and other international assets to bring them to justice.
     
  7. Niklas

    Niklas Fully Functional GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2004
    Messages:
    10,290
    Location:
    57°47'55"N 12°09'16"E
    From: China
    To: The Russian Federation
    CC: Global transmission


    China's position is not one of negotiating with terrorists. We must not give in to threats, or we will, indeed, have set a precedence that is irrevocable and irredeemable.

    That is not the case here. The Islamic Confederation is not a terrorist, despite its wild and improbable threats. It is a union of nations among others, and as such deserves the same diplomatic respect as any other such political body. That some of its current leaders feel pressured enough to issue condemning threats is inconsequential, for the Confederation is not a political entity only, but a union of nations full of civilian people who have and would suffer greatly in a war.

    If war can be avoided through standard diplomatic measures, then war shall be avoided. Declaring war on a nation because of incapable leadership or nationalistic insults is another precedence that should not be set. If a nation poses a serious threat, and refuses to engage in diplomatic negotiations to reduce that threat, then, as history has shown us, war may be the only alternative. That is not the case here.

    There is no way we will let the Islamic Confederation have its way because of the threats issued. But seeing beyond those threats, there is still a nation that deserves diplomatic respect. China will thus again voice its strong support for a diplomatic solution to this problem.

    To that end we have already done what no other nation can claim to do - we have taken the necessary steps to reduce the threat by approaching the Islamic Confederation through diplomatic channels. We have made them see that the only way anyone will negotiate with them is if they already, unilaterally and unconditionally, step down from their position and agree to hand over all weapons of mass destruction to a neutral party. Once they do, the pressure will be on the United States of America to come to the negotiations table.

    There will be prosecutions for crimes of war. There will be punishment for wrongs done. But they will be handled through the proper diplomatic channels, not through the assertion that might makes right. From either side.

    From: China
    To: United Nations General Assembly
    CC: Global transmission


    China will not deny the trade with the Islamic Confederation. Nor will we deny trading with the United States of America, despite their shameless invasion of Indonesia. Should we call all trade with the USA astonishing and repugnant? There has been no resolution passed that mentions a trade embargo against either nation. If such a resolution were put forth for a vote, we would consider it. But we strongly condemn the rhethorics used by the Russian Federation.
     
  8. Lord_Iggy

    Lord_Iggy Tsesk'ihe

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2005
    Messages:
    24,568
    Location:
    Yukon
    OOC: Chandra, I would have assumed that I cut off such trade with the warring parties in the update. Oh well, I'll do that now. I don't imagine you'd be willing to retcon, would you?

    IC:
    The European Union has voted to ban exports of materials which can be used for military production to warring parties until further notice.
     
  9. Symphony D.

    Symphony D. Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2003
    Messages:
    8,991
    Location:
    ALNITAHIA FOREVER
    The Russian Ambassador to the United Nations presents the Chinese Ambassador to the United Nations with a gift: a pocket dictionary with the word "neutral" highlighted.

    FROM: Russian Federation
    TO: People's Republic of China
    CC: Global Transmission

    The Russian Federation accepts Chinese condemnations and replies with its own equally strong condemnations of the "purely coincidental" Chinese military exercise over American airspace during a battle between American and Confederate forces and its not-so-covert threats of the usage of force to prevent the Russian Federation from exercising its right to national defense. Last we were informed, China was not the world's policeman to tell or otherwise suggest to others what they should and should not do.

    Until the Islamic Confederation acknowledges it will submit to unconditional surrender to an international authority, wherein an international court may decide the appropriate punishments, war is the only option on the table, particularly as the Islamic Confederation has repeatedly said itself that either its demands be met or it will carry out its threats. We cannot submit, and we cannot allow those threats to be carried out. If it maintains its position of "our way or the highway"--and it has yet to regress from that position publicly--we will continue to maintain a policy of either voluntary or involuntary unconditional surrender. The choice in the matter is the Confederation's. The prevention of an incident such as this from ever occurring again is the top priority that confronts the world today, and allowing the leadership of that coalition to weasel their way out of punishment through some backroom deal is unacceptable.

    Perhaps China does not distinguish between the government and the people, but the Russian Federation does. The governments of the Islamic Confederation are staffed by criminals. They will be treated as such. They may submit to justice, or we shall bring them to it. The peoples of the Islamic Confederation are duty-bound to make it clear that they will no longer tolerate being manipulated by these individuals, or they become accomplices to the fact by their collusion.
     
  10. Chandrasekhar

    Chandrasekhar Determined

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2006
    Messages:
    4,415
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    There was nothing about cutting off trade with both parties in your orders, but if it's any consolation, the commerce conducted with the Islamic Confederation has been mostly for food and medical supplies. I won't retcon, but closer investigation will certainly reveal that the EU can't be held responsible for most of the continued Confederation weapons production.
     
  11. Niklas

    Niklas Fully Functional GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2004
    Messages:
    10,290
    Location:
    57°47'55"N 12°09'16"E
    If you mean to imply that China has in any way overstepped its neutrality in this conflict, then you are simply wrong. No Chinese forces have been involved in any fighting in any way, and we have not favored one nation over the other in trade. Nor do we not presume to take the role of policeman of the world, but neither do we accept any other nation taking that role, telling or suggesting to others what they should do. The Russian emissary would do well not to throw rocks inside his glass house.

    We do not deny any nation its right to national defense. But if such "defense" were to involve the invasion of another sovereign nation, such matters should and must be handled through the United Nations first. It can never be one nation's business alone to bring war to the world. Then it is no longer national defense, but warmongering, no less.
     
  12. Symphony D.

    Symphony D. Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2003
    Messages:
    8,991
    Location:
    ALNITAHIA FOREVER
    FROM: Russian Federation
    TO: People's Republic of China
    CC: Global Transmission

    How interesting that the only nation which has seen fit to point out the usurpations of law in the attempted proceedings of the European Union was the Russian Federation.

    How interesting that the only nation to invoke the proper organs of international justice was the Russian Federation.

    How interesting that the only nation which spoke up against the plans to cave in to the nuclear blackmail of the entire world by a coalition of rogue states was the Russian Federation.

    How interesting that the only nation which spoke up and said "No, this is wrong," was the Russian Federation.

    How interesting that the People's Republic of China should only commit to attempting to privately defuse the situation instead of arguing with the European Union over some distant space rock after the world's attention was called to these issues by the Russian Federation.

    How interesting that the only nation to point out the suppliers of the Confederation's only tangible off-world military facility, and only remaining trump-card in this war other than its earthbound nuclear arsenal was the Russian Federation.

    How interesting that the very people supplying it that advantage are the ones now calling for peace, peace through any quick means, peace to bring order back to their balance of power, that they may continue their monopolization of space unto themselves.

    How interesting. 'Throw rocks in our glass house,' Ambassador? At least we have a house.
     
  13. Niklas

    Niklas Fully Functional GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2004
    Messages:
    10,290
    Location:
    57°47'55"N 12°09'16"E
    { OOC: Chand, could I too have a clarification on just what kind of trade I've been doing with the IC at Venus? And during what time frame, before or during the attacks on the US? It's your call, I have no problem with whatever you say. }

    From: China
    To: The Russian Federation
    CC: Global transmission


    We applaude your efforts to bring these events to the attention of the nations of the world. This situation must clearly be defused, and Russia indeed acted faster than any other in response to this situation. That does not mean we agree with your suggested methods or plans, or that we like to be told how we should respond, rather than simply that we should respond. We applaud the latter, but dislike the former.

    We have now responded to the situation, slower than the Russian Federation, but with peace as the primary goal, and the defusion of the immediate threat. We have not overstepped any bounds that the United Nations General Assembly might find wise to impose, as no concessions have been made to the Islamic Confederation. It is now up to the nations of the world to ensure that the situation is handled in the best way possible.

    If the Russian Federation wishes to continue its diatribe against nations not willing to follow its war rhethorics, China will no longer care to answer. We should move to solve the situation at hand, instead of shouting invectives over what methods are used. Any specific issues may be brought up to the assembly to discuss and resolve.

    OOC: ... aka I'm going to bed and can't answer any more.
     
  14. Lord_Iggy

    Lord_Iggy Tsesk'ihe

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2005
    Messages:
    24,568
    Location:
    Yukon
    Yeah, I assumed it would have been the IC thing for this nation to do. Okay, well, I'll still act the way I've acted. Thanks for the clarification, I don't deny medically aiding the injured and feeding the displaced in Indonesia.
     
  15. Chandrasekhar

    Chandrasekhar Determined

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2006
    Messages:
    4,415
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Raw materials, mostly, plenty of raw materials. Nothing else can be proven, either way. However, it's not as though the PRC has been giving stuff away to the IC, and the prices offered to the IC have been anything but preferential.

    Edit: Both before and after the attacks, by the way.
     
  16. Fuschia

    Fuschia A Little Odd

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2007
    Messages:
    1,259
    Location:
    Less than a lightyear away
    To: The World
    From: The Islamic Confederation


    It is important that the world see the actions of the Russian Federation as they are: an attempt to gain power and influence for themselves. There actions are in no way moving towards peace nor negotiation. They will continue to make unreasonable demands on the behalf of an ally who has yet to speak on the matter until it has become uncontrollable. They will continue to attack demolish the proposed peace arrangements of the European Union and China until the situation has moved beyond the possibility of such arrangements.

    And all of this in a rather shameful attempt to remove other contenders for power from being future threats. At least, it seems this way to the Islamic Confederation. Perhaps Russia would like to offer another reason for its continued unreasonableness and insulting retorts to attempted diplomacy? For now, we can think of no other excuse other than wishing for the war to continue, and no other reason for wishing the war to continue than the one stated above.

    Finally, as to the agreement stated by China, we are in full support of such an agreement. We will give up our nuclear weapons in exchange for the greater good of peace. We will allow war criminals to be charged, although to what extent is certainly up for discussion; this depends, quite literally, on who is to be considered a war criminal and whether or not the actions of the United States of America in its invasion of Indonesia are to be considered a crime. Those who have needlessly killed civilians will be punished, as will those who directly issued such orders. Beyond that, we will offer no promises without further discussion. That is all.
     
  17. Symphony D.

    Symphony D. Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2003
    Messages:
    8,991
    Location:
    ALNITAHIA FOREVER
    FROM: Russian Federation
    TO: Global Transmission

    If there was ever doubt that the government of the Confederation was out of touch with reality, it is demonstrated plainly in the willful cognitive dissonance of the fact that it was the Russian Federation which appealed to an international body to attempt to find a peaceful solution, rather than to nations which were until recently providing material support to the Confederate war effort and were clearly biased in their dealings with it as a result.

    The only nation which has thus far pursued the opinion of and has sought resolute action from the body of the international community, rather than the dictates and wills of a few titanic superpowers is the Russian Federation.

    And the only country which is willing to prosecute the true breaches of international law to the fullest extent to prevent an outbreak of similar such madness in the future, and which is willing to respect the word of law as an institution which no one--no person, or nation--may transgress is the Russian Federation.

    We have demonstrated our case. We have said what we find to be the only morally, legally, and politically acceptable solution to this conflict, and we have submitted our findings and petitions to the only judicial bodies with any authority on the matters. Had we wished to terminate the Confederation with the extreme prejudice so easily levied against any group which would threaten the potential extinction of the human race, we would not be taking measures no one else has elected to take in ensuring that justice is done, rather than some flimsy false peace brokered by frightened diplomats.

    The Confederation may spin its wheels and spit its hateful vitriol as much as it may desire. We stand firm in our belief that the ICJ and ICC will rule in favor of the Russian position, that of the Confederation's unconditional surrender, either voluntarily or involuntarily. If such a ruling is passed and the latter condition is found to be the response of the Confederation, the Russian Federation will stand by the United States of America and a coalition of the willing to see that the will of those bodies is executed to the letter. We will not listen to veiled or overt threats. We will listen to and abide by the rule of international law. This is more than can be said for either our adversary, or the recent peers with whom we have exchanged diplomatic words.

    Until their findings have been presented however, we see no further cause for commentary as the Confederation and its moral-relativist defenders continue to make our case all the more strongly for us. Crime must be punished, and shall be, for the good of humanity now and in the future. Justice will be served.
     
  18. Niklas

    Niklas Fully Functional GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2004
    Messages:
    10,290
    Location:
    57°47'55"N 12°09'16"E
    { OOC: And just who do you propose play the part of the justice you seek? Chand? You're not making his life very easy, you know. There's a balance to be had between making things realistic and making things complicated. IMO this has gone far into the latter category. It would be so much easier for this game if we could let the negotiations be handled on the level of "titanic superpowers" and "frightened diplomats", rather than asking Chand to come up with an informed, complex and just solution. }
     
  19. Chandrasekhar

    Chandrasekhar Determined

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2006
    Messages:
    4,415
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Nonetheless, I will make an attempt. :p I'll try and do some research and make a decision later today... Though I'd appreciate some sort of diplomatic stance from Head Serf first...
     
  20. Lord_Iggy

    Lord_Iggy Tsesk'ihe

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2005
    Messages:
    24,568
    Location:
    Yukon
    The European Union protest's the claim that it is not neutral because it has provided humanitarian aid. However, we agree that the ICJ would be an ideal area within which a fair and just peace can be settled.
     

Share This Page