Pre-SINES V-Ruleset, map, and stats

silver 2039

Deity
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Messages
16,208
SINES V

Since spring break is soon I can finally get started on this.

No reservations unless you help me. Muahah.

BTW das I need info from you for this.

Anyone have any suggestions about what to add, subtract, take away, multiply, or divide or whatever, the NES is set in 1900. Any suggestions would be good.

The map is here, made by das:

000tvcherguessthepod190mz3.th.gif%5D


I'd like to add industrial centers (red), and trade centers (blue) to it. So I would like help with that. Cities don't contribute anything directly so its for the player largely.
 
Nations:

New Albion

Oklahoma

Arcadia
-British Isles
-North Atlantic
-Angola


Australian Confederation


Portuguese Empire-Disenfranchsed (population info, map with industrial and trade centers)
-Mexico
-American Southeast
-Carribean
-Chile
-Gujurat
-Portuguese India
-Portuguese China
-Portuguese Malaya
-Swahili Coast
-Madagadscar

Tawantinsuyu

Asante

Kaneam

Argentine Protectorate

France
-Iberia
-Algeria
-New Leon
Kanem

2nd Malinese Empire

Nguni Empire

Rozwi Empire

Siamese Empire

Vietnam

Mustafid Shahate

Rajpht Empire

Malla Empire

Bengal
-Bengali Sumatra

Hyderabad

Flanders
-Brazil
-Flemish India
-Flemish Congo
-Flemish Malaya

Norway

Sweden

Holy Roman Empire
-German Orincoco

Monferrat

Italian Republic
-Gabon
-Italian Sumatra

Sicily

Poland

Hungary

Croatia

Serbia-Romea

Tver

Chernigov-Azale (stat production)

Egypt-Fuscia (Africa stats)

Fur

Ethiopia

Despotate of Ionia

Angora

Orange State

Georgia

Dagestan

Iraq

Jadfdid Caliphate

The Golden Horde

Uighur Khanate

Knights of the Nile

Tibet

Qing

Xin Ming China

Japan-goou (stats for Australia and Xing Ming China)
-Japanese China
-Siberia
-Korea
-Cascadia

Yet to claim:

das
 
Nation Name
Capital:
Ruler:
Government:
Culture:
Technology level:
Technology description:
Army:
Army Level:
Army Description:
Navy:
Navy level:
Navy Description:
Air force:
Air force level:
Air force description:
Military Upkeep:
Economy (Base//Trade/Total/Banked): 0/0/0/0/0
Land Area:
Infrastructure:
Population Level:
Education:
Living Standards:
Confidence:
Projects:
Colonies (Income/Population/Militia/Loyalty):
Nation Background:


Capital

The capital is the political centre of your nation. Capitals also have a greater chance of becoming economic or trade centers. Furthermore, keep in mind that capitals have the ability to either unite or divide a nation. For instance, if you place your capital in between two or more bitterly opposed factions you may be able to prevent divisiveness. On the other hand, if you are not careful, a capital’s location in one region of a nation may cause hatred and secessionist feeling in another area. Capitals are also often essential components of a national identity. Their loss can cause the collapse of nations, their mistreatment by foreigners can cause immense, uncontrollable hatred, and their glorification can cause unparalleled national pride. Capitals are powerful political and cultural tools, use them wisely.

Government

Your government is, simply, how you govern your people. Ranging from dictatorial to anarchist and revolutionary to reactionary, the variations on governmental systems are inexhaustible. No matter what sort of government you have, be it a dictatorship or a democracy, you will always have to face off against political adversaries and juggle the balance of power between various factions. In dictatorial governments you will generally have more control over your opponents, but this is not always the case. While government can be changed, the mechanisms to do this are not constant. In some cases all that is needed in gradual reform, in others brutal revolution. So be careful, whatever it is you choose to do.

Additionally, government has an efficiency stat that shows how corrupt, how lazy, how bloated, how bureaucratic, etc. the government is. The levels of efficiency are:

None-Imaginary-Corrupt-Incompetent-Blundering-Tolerable-Improving-Competent-Efficient-Great-Brilliant

Technology

(like the European Renaissance, the Andean Bronze Age and such) – as opposed to historical equivalents – will be listed. In the stats, the technological level to which the nation in question belongs will be mentioned; and after it, the significant deviations from the given norm, whether good (“superior firearms”) or bad (“inferior ships”) will be listed. Things will be more flexible this way, and the stats themselves more informative while also concise. That, in any case, is the idea.

Technological development can be simply ordered, but it will usually require funding, as well as physical feasibility, for it to actually get anywhere. Education levels obviously help as well.

One cannot trade technology as such, but one can supply a different nation with products of superior technology, or one could send advisors and scrolls and other such help to help said nation reach your level.

Military

Warfare

For war I expect your overall strategy and preferably maps, remember you are the leader of your nation so you deal with the larger strategic objectives. If you wish you may pm me a list of tactics and doctrines that your nation employs, good doctrines and tactics wll have an impact on quality and war situations.

Military Quality

Your military quality demonstrates how well advanced, experienced, or trained your armed forces are. This can be modified in several ways, including through Projects which revolve around military training, fighting wars, and researching new military technologies. Some nations have naturally higher qualities than others. Research is the best way to decrease the gap, and winning wars will have a positive effect on your military's quality as well. Losing wars could possible decrease quality, but it is far easier to increase than decrease. Remember to keep up with modernization or you could find yourself horribly beaten if you go to war.

It goes on a scale from worst the best at 1-10.

Military upkeep

No equation is used to determine this and it depends on troop and ship deployments. For example, the HRE may have a larger army but the Portuguese will have higher upkeep costs due to their international deployment. Upkeep basically pays for logistical support. If you do not pay for upkeep every turn, then expect bad things to happen to your military. Coups are possible.

Units:

Divisions-Are generic soldiers that account for infantry, cavalry, artillery, tanks, and basically all land forces. These cost 1 eco for 2 divisions without mobilization.

Squadrons-Are generic naval forces these account for escort ships, cruisers, destroyers, subs, capital ships and all naval forces. These cost 1 eco for 2 squadrons without mobilization.

Airwings-Are general air forces such as fighters, bombers, recon planes, and all air forces. These cost 1 eco for 2 air wings without mobilization.

Army/Navy/Air force Description:

This is a verbal description of your forces, their composition, leadership, and unique aspects about them.

War Mobilization:

Your standing army is much smaller then what you will need for serious military action. In such instances you may carry out wartime mobilization. This will reduce the cost of your troops. You will be able to recruit the square root of your forces for land army. For naval squadrons it will be the square root of your industrial output.

Conscription also becomes available with wartime mobilization; you may recruit 5 conscript divisions for 1 eco. Note that these conscript forces will not be the best trained. They will likely drag down your military quality in large numbers. Initially they may have high morale but if you start losing expect it go down real fast.

Economy:

This is how much money you make represented by eco points. It is the sum of your base income (industrial production, GDP basically) and your trade income (imports and exports). It is shown in the form

Base/Trade/Total/Banked

Banked is how much you can store. It will gain interest over time.

You cannot raise economy directly as such, but you could do things to the effect of raising it, though probably with other consequences as well. You could invest in the construction of more manufactories, or sign trade agreements, or raise taxes, or really just about anything, though particularly intricate schemes tend to be particularly prone to backfiring. There will often be some kind of bankers from whom you could take loans and suchlike as well. Other factors will influence the fluctuation of stats here as well, obviously.

There is a lot of things you could spend your money on. You could raise most level-based stats (but pay attention to Area or Population!), pay for upkeep, invest in all kinds of things (including economy-raising measures; basically, your investments are various schemes to influence one or several stats, especially those that are not level-based), pay for projects and so forth.

Culture

Culture here will be a general description of important cultural changes taking place. Examples would include a cultural renaissance, religious upheaval, Westernisation, and urbanisation.

Deterioration

Your stats may deteriorate over time. In order to prevent this, invest eco and keep up a forward momentum.

Infrastructure

Roads, railroads, airports, docks, bridges, boats - all things used for transportation of goods and men - are listed under infrastructure. The higher is your infrastructure, the easier it is to move your (or enemy) troops across your territory; it also influences things such as Trade.

Infrastructure: None-Dirt Paths-Pathetic-Barely-Tolerable-Tolerable-Improving-Good-Efficient-Very Efficient-Great-Excellent

Population

This is the Population stat, and it is much like the Area stat – it shows the population size of the nation itself (not including non-integrated and colonial territories), it is number-based and is used to calculate the amount of money you spend on Education and Living Standards per the same formula as before. Also, it naturally influences your economy, your military and your conscription capabilities.

Area

Area means specifically the territory size of the nation in question (NOT including the colonies and the occupied, non-integrated areas) and, apart from other things, is used for calculation of the amount of eco. points needed to raise Infrastructure and Bureaucracy. Now, level-based size stats had a lot of problems with them, so instead it is now number-based, allowing for greater precision. The number is the amount of eco. points you need to pay – simple enough, I believe.

Education

Education is education is how educated your people are. This obviously influences the speed and feasibility of technological progress, as detailed under Technology. If you reach the Enlightenment levels, the chances of jumping to a whole new age will be increased considerably, though this would automatically degrade your education by two levels.

Education influences other things as well – most noticeably, a less educated population would be less open to both reformism and revolutionary sentiments, while a more educated one is likely to demand such things if even slightly discontent with the situation; leaps in education can therefore be particularily dangerous, as they are known to revolutionise a population. It is best to take this stat into account; with a very educated population, reaction would rarely be the path to go, but likewise enlightened reformism in an Illiterate country would usually be just plain stupid if not backed up by force.

Education: None-Dumb-Illiterate-Tolerable-Literate-Educated-Well Educated-Perfect-Academic-Enlightenment

Living Standards

They’re back! Living Standards are very tricky, but generally higher living standards decrease dissent, make revolts less likely (your people will have more to lose) and maybe even help you out with economy and education. However, there is a peril involved – if your high living standards fall, whether due to economic woes or war or simple neglect, people will be angry and desperate, and a lot of other problems will come. Basically, it can be rather spoiling.

A fairly educated nation with low living standards surrounded by nations with higher living standards will have a lot of problems also.

Living Standards: None-Slums-Very Low-Low-Barely Tolerable-Tolerable-Normal-Higher-Very High-Splendid

Confidence

This is the degree to which the people trust or mistrust, love or hate you and your government. Its effects shouldn't be hard to explain, really - a more loyal people will take up arms in your defense, a less loyal people will take up arms to overthrow you. As not even Fortune is as fickle as public opinion, this will fluctuate wildly depending on your (perceived or real) successes or failures, and on the propaganda as well - both yours and that of your enemies.

Confidence is the key indicator of your success and the stability of your government. Confidence falls in the following circumstances:
1. When you radically shift economic policies.
2. When you shift government types.
3. When a republic shifts control from one party to another.
4. When you lose a war
5. Other types of unfortunate events which can surprise you and have a wide variety of styles in which they are introduced.

Confidence rises in the following circumstances:
1. When a government successfully shifts to a more publicly preferred form.
2. when spending in welfare policies and public spending increases.
3. when you win a war
4. when a party is reelected to government
5. Other types of fortunate events

It cannot be grown by eco. points directly.

Confidence: Lynching-Hateful-Resentful-Barely Tolerating-Tolerating-Respecting-Admiring-Loving-Nation Personified

Colonies

Colonies, in this case, are major and effective overseas possessions (i.e. bigger than single trade outposts or forts); they have separate, though much simplified, stats. The “income” a colony brings in will depend on many factors (such as resources, investment and population), but particularly in settler colonies it is likely to start out at zero but grow overtime, especially with additional investment. The “militia” stat represents the amount of militia regiments that could be raised to fight off an invasion – or to rebel against you. You could use militias in aggressive campaigns, but usually that won’t work too well, especially far from home. You could also place your troops in the colonies, of course, though they might be some complications in that case as well, especially if you don’t pay for the upkeep. A colony’s Loyalty is basically the same as Confidence (it even uses the same levels! Only for the colony specifically. Administration is how good the colonial government is, it uses the same levels as beauracracy. Good government can ensure colonial loyalty while bad one could cause rebellion.

Projects

Local equivalent of wonders, but is more often some sort of a particularily large project or program as opposed to some huge building. You can do just about anything with it, but it is advisable to contact me for specifics first; usually it will simply influence one or several stats in some desirable way, but if you want some other kind of effect, it is best for you to contact me. A long-term bonus like superior amounts of troops per eco. point could be tied to either a fixed amount of turns or to some in-game condition (like a Janissary system) that will have its own repercussions and that might be caused to cease to function, in which case the bonus will disappear; such things are also what you should talk with me about first. Anyhow, most projects will have their own unintended consequences, good or bad. It is most advisable to describe a project to me in detail other than simply list the intended effects; i.e. explain how exactly you intend to get there with this.

Innovative solutions aside from that can also speed things up (for instance, you can have your engineer UU help build a grand fortification system, or just throw slaves at a problem), but it’s no guarantee. You must pm me with your project idea and I will tell you the cost of it and how long it will take.

You can make it secret, but in that case you'll have to remind me about the effects every so often.

Intelligence

It works like this: you can PM me questions that I will answer (not necessarily truthfully, and probably in an ambiguous way), or add espionage/intelligence orders to your order sets, with the stuff that you want done (both sabotage and other such stuff, and normal information gathering; I will send secret reports after the update, with the results of your operations). Do note that your spies are neither omniscient nor omnipotent, - they aren't even omnipresent, most of the times. The latter can be partially fixed by gradual infiltration and construction of a spy network. Eco. points are not necessary here, but they might be very helpful.
 
This forum requires that you wait 30 seconds between posts. Please try again in 26 seconds.

This forum requires that you wait 30 seconds between posts. Please try again in 17 seconds.

This forum requires that you wait 30 seconds between posts. Please try again in 8 seconds.

This forum requires that you wait 30 seconds between posts. Please try again in 7 seconds.
 
I would like the Grand Principality of Chernigov (Ukraine). I will help with stat production once its time for that, but I can't say what stats to remove until I see what the actual rules themselves are...
 
silver, you did get my PM back then, right?
 
I'll get some stats done as soon as you post the alt-hist (or at least the year; I'm guessing 1700-1800?) and you tell me why Ukraine/Karelia/Romania/Muskovy has two capitals.
 
Oh, sorry, I was very exicited seeing this NES starting...as I'm not capable to help you, I will wait until the main thread starts.
 
you tell me why Ukraine/Karelia/Romania/Muskovy has two capitals.

It's called the Grand Principality of Chernigov; why would you suspect it to be Karelia or Muscovy is beyond me. The city of Chernigov (inland) is the traditional and official capital, but the de facto capital where most relevant government bodies are located is the key port city of Odessa. Compare with OTL Israel; it's not quite the same, but the Jerusalem-Tel Aviv duality seems to be the best OTL analogue.
 
It's called the Grand Principality of Chernigov; why would you suspect it to be Karelia or Muscovy is beyond me. The city of Chernigov (inland) is the traditional and official capital, but the de facto capital where most relevant government bodies are located is the key port city of Odessa. Compare with OTL Israel; it's not quite the same, but the Jerusalem-Tel Aviv duality seems to be the best OTL analogue.

I really don't know why I put Muskovy in there, but Karelia was a typo for Crimea. (I'm doing my Swedish orders for LuckNES, and ya...)

(I thought that it was probably the historical capital and then the like economic capital, but I hadn't seen 2 capitals in any other NESes).
 
Nation Name:
Capital:
Ruler:
Government:
Culture:
Technology level:

Army:
Army Level:

Navy:
Navy level:

Air force:
Air force level:

Military Upkeep:
Economy (Base/Manufacturing/Trade/Total/Banked): 0/0/0/0/0
Land Area:
Infrastructure:
Bureaucracy:
Population Level:
Education:
Living Standards:
Confidence:
Projects:
Colonies (Income/Population/Militia/Loyalty/Administration/Upkeep):
Nation Background:

You reallly don't need descriptions of armed forces.

Also, you should add Unique units. Adds spice to the game.
 
Yea, we do have a thread about this, but I'd prefer to not spam it with stupid-ish questions. Speaking of questions: you mentioned that Japan and Vietnam are allies; did Siam always own ITL Vietnamese lands or did they conquer them recently? I mean if Vietnam doesn't like Siam I'd expect them to bribe Japan into helping them (unless Siam's like a protectorate of Portugal)...

The Vietnamese only conquered the area of Saigon in the late 17th century in OTL; in this world, it remained Khmer until the (partly Portuguese-backed) rise of the Siamese Empire, when it was integrated. The Vietnamese weren't happy with the expansion, and fought some wars with the Siamese, but it never came to anything decisive and the Japanese were by then focused on other things. Though they weren't on good terms with the Portuguese by any means, ofcourse.
 
I'm making rough drafts of some stats (currently doing Australia; it needs to be added to the list btw), and I've got some questions:

Speaking of questions: you mentioned that Japan and Vietnam are allies; did Siam always own ITL Vietnamese lands or did they conquer them recently? I mean if Vietnam doesn't like Siam I'd expect them to bribe Japan into helping them (unless Siam's like a protectorate of Portugal)...

I'm assuming that since US didn't become a complete democracy, no other country wanted to risk trying it, and although some present-day countries might be democratic, the idea never spread as much.

When did the 50 years war take place (so I know when to split the British family tree to get an Australian monarch)?

No relevant air forces exist yet, right?

Was Portugal neutral-ish during the 50 years war (if not, which side did it take)?

More questions coming...

Edit:
Is the capital of Australia Brisbane or Sydney?
 
I'm assuming that since US didn't become a complete democracy, no other country wanted to risk trying it, and although some present-day countries might be democratic, the idea never spread as much.

Not for that reason, but mainly yes.

When did the 50 years war take place (so I know when to split the British family tree to get an Australian monarch)?

It took place in 1724-1774, the British royal family is utterly different from OTL for a wide array of reasons (but just the fact that the people that were born in OTL wouldn't be born ITTL after the divergence has set in sufficiently even discounting the greater implications of the butterfly effect will do) and Australia is technically a democracy (huh).

No relevant air forces exist yet, right?

That'd be a fair assumption.

Was Portugal neutral-ish during the 50 years war (if not, which side did it take)?

It was on the British/Imperial side.
 
Draft of Australia's stats:

Nation Name: Australia
Capital: Sydney
Ruler: President Sheepherder
Government: Technically a Democracy
Culture: Roman Catholicism is very strong in Australia and almost no traces of other religions exist.
Technology level: Relatively advanced
Technology description: Australia's technology is mostly agricultural-oriented.
Army: 8 infantry
Army Level: 4
Army Description: Australia's army have not seen action since 1774. It's mostly not needed now.
Navy: 4 battleships, 20 support groups
Navy level: 6
Navy Description: Although Australia's navy is small, it is still respected by many. However, it's main occupation nowadays is escorting trading ships.
Air force:
Air force level:
Air force description:
Military Upkeep:
Economy (Base/Manufacturing/Trade/Total/Banked): 2/2/5/9/1
Land Area: 8 (If Denmark is 1)
Infrastructure: Improving
Bureaucracy: Better
Population Level: 5 (If Demark is 1)
Education: Mostly Literate
Living Standards: Good
Confidence: Better
Projects:
Colonies (Income/Population/Militia/Loyalty/Administration/Upkeep): None
Nation Background:
Australia is one of the nations that formed during or after the 50 years' war as a result of the French invasion of Great Britain. It's relations with Arcadia rapidly deteriorated at the end of the war and they now share an intense mutual dislike of each other. Currently, Australia is one of the world's largest exporters of textiles and agricultural products.

Any good?

Edit: more questions:

How did the Netherlands end up with Brazil?
 
Back
Top Bottom