Preliminary Dural Ideas

[Rutee]

Well, their archers, horsemen, and chariots, are only unique visually, no extra function. And I could swear at least a few of those graphics are borrowed from the Infernals

That's true. The Archer and Horsemen lines are mostly normal. So they've only got 4 of the 6 unit lines as completely unique, as well as 4 mini heroes, 2 national heroes (Many only have 1), and an Archery unit (Arquebuses). I'm not even saying they should all have unique graphics; Frankly, I can only barely see city graphics, because I rarely zoom in far enough to look at all of them. I just think it might fit the Dural to *also* have unique building line ups, in addition to making it much easier for them to equip.

Wouldn't it be easier to give them a civ trait that just increases the effectiveness of their buildings?

Uh.... would it? It'd still have to work out every single building and the new effect, wouldn't it?

 

[deadliver]

That's true. The Archer and Horsemen lines are mostly normal. So they've only got 4 of the 6 unit lines as completely unique, as well as 4 mini heroes, 2 national heroes (Many only have 1), and an Archery unit (Arquebuses). I'm not even saying they should all have unique graphics; Frankly, I can only barely see city graphics, because I rarely zoom in far enough to look at all of them. I just think it might fit the Dural to *also* have unique building line ups, in addition to making it much easier for them to equip.


Uh.... would it? It'd still have to work out every single building and the new effect, wouldn't it?

Surely it would be easier to apply a civ wide bonus to , that would handle and production nicely. The one I am not sure about is being able to easily give them a flat +25% civ wide.

A far cry from: finding new art, writing up a UB for each standard building, and linking the new art to those new buildings, not to mention you then have people complaining about lack of pedia entries.

BTW: I do like the idea of having an advanced version of some of the basic buildings (as mentioned in above posts).

 

[Rutee]

Surely it would be easier to apply a civ wide bonus to , that would handle and production nicely. The one I am not sure about is being able to easily give them a flat +25% civ wide.

But that just says they're stupid good businessmen. It doesn't actually acknowledge their skill as artisans. In fact, you could take advantage of that without a single building.

A far cry from: finding new art

Unnecessary IMO.

writing up a UB for each standard building,

Granted. That is pretty rough, but no moreso then the amount of work that went into some of the other new civs.

BTW: I do like the idea of having an advanced version of some of the basic buildings (as mentioned in above posts).

 

[deadliver]

Dural are artists at *everything* they do not just physical things such as sculpture and weaponsmithing. They want to achieve perfection (or at least surpass their predecessors idea of it)

This is one reason I think that the Dural should get a diplomacy bonus just for being Dural. I could see the case for a UB line up I guess (course who the hell am I anyway?) but it would take work: Anyone have any suggestions for UB beyond "Its like a Monument but like double the "

EDIT:
1.) Monument to Perfection (replaces the regular monument)- Standard monument but allows one citizen to become a bard.

2.) College: (replaces Library)- +20%,+20%, allows one citizen to become bard, allows one citizen to become sage.

3.) Festival: (replaces Market)- +3, -1 allows one bard, allows one sage.

These UBs should cost extra to build as they should simply be better than what they are replacing.

 

[Cadaveres]

I am not sure if I would change the whole names. Maybe just by putting "Dural Market" instead of "Festival" we would get the same effect and strongly soften the learning curve for Dural.

More specific ideas for buildings here:

Dural courthouse - 160 , -60% maintenance, -20 crime rate

Dural carnival - 160 , +1 , +30% , +0.10XP training Recon Units (for hunting animals), +0.25XP training animal units

Dural elder council - 80 , +3 , allows 1 Sage

Dural herbalist - 120 , +10% healing rates for units in the city, +1, +1 from Reagents, Incense, Sugar, units in the city get the "Healing herbs" promotion (+10% healing rate, 10% wearing off per turn)

Dural granary - 160 , +1 , +1 from Corn, Rice and Wheat, City keeps +30% after growth

Dural smokehouse - 160 , +1 , +1 from Cow, Pig, Sheep and Toads, City keeps +30% after growth

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Apart from that I would add a UB for the Dural that I believe that fits them

School of Theology: Available at Theology, 300 , +15% per religion in the city, allows 1 Sage, 1 Prophet

 

[deadliver]

I am not sure if I would change the whole names. Maybe just by putting "Dural Market" instead of "Festival" we would get the same effect and strongly soften the learning curve for Dural.

More specific ideas for buildings here:

Dural courthouse - 160 , -60% maintenance, -20 crime rate

Dural carnival - 160 , +1 , +30% , +0.10XP training Recon Units (for hunting animals), +0.25XP training animal units

Dural elder council - 80 , +3 , allows 1 Sage

Dural herbalist - 120 , +10% healing rates for units in the city, +1, +1 from Reagents, Incense, Sugar, units in the city get the "Healing herbs" promotion (+10% healing rate, 10% wearing off per turn)

Dural granary - 160 , +1 , +1 from Corn, Rice and Wheat, City keeps +30% after growth

Dural smokehouse - 160 , +1 , +1 from Cow, Pig, Sheep and Toads, City keeps +30% after growth

------------
Apart from that I would add a UB for the Dural that I believe that fits them

School of Theology: Available at Theology, 300 , +15% per religion in the city, allows 1 Sage, 1 Prophet

Well aren't we the fancy boy...

Let us rename current buildings (except one) with the Dural prefix.

I like it. (I do! Until I realize the blatant disbalance.....this will come later)

 

[The NeverTide]

Hmm... how about letting the Dural be the only civ that can build unique items? (As World Units that can then be picked up, like the Golden Hammers.) For example, something like:

Robe of the Fey: Grants ability to travel through rival territory, invisibility, +1 movement. +100% production speed with Shadow mana. 400 hammers, requires Knowledge of the Ether. Can be settled as a Great Merchant.

Or:

Dean's Scepter: +100% passive experience gain for Adepts that hold it. Can be settled as a Great Sage. Requires College, costs 500 hammers (triple production speed with Metamagic mana.) You CAN get it early, but only if you're willing to sac early production...

Or:

Faebolg's Ring: +2 strength, but unit has a 4% chance each turn of getting the StackEffect promotion "Aged" (-10% strength, permanent.) Requires Octopus Overlords. Okay, a bit out of flavor for Danmos, but that just means we need a neutral Duralli leader. Just because they're craftsmen doesn't mean the items they make are necessarily Good-aligned...

And, of course, the end-game ones would even more powerful. I can see this as being pretty neat, although it might cause jealous neighbors trying to steal them... but this would also be in flavor, so it's all good.

This was posted by 25Hour in the underdeveloped civs thread and I personally think its a great idea. I like the idea of Dural not having a massive number of modified UU's or UB's, but having the unique ability to produce epic equipment with a large variety of effects as world units. Most of these could be settled as either a free specialist or a great whatever to represent the genius of that particular artist, outstanding even by Dural standards, having decided to settle in a particular city. It would be nice if the specialist could be taken out of the city when the equipment is picked up or if some similar mechanic could be put into effect.

Of course, coming up with balanced, unique equipment is probably even more of a headache than coming up with new UU's and new UB's. But that's what this community is for.

This isn't to say there shouldn't be (more) UU's or UB's, it really just comes down to being an extra mechanic to help flesh the artisans of the game out, and provide a boon to have the Dural in a game producing equipment that can be potentially stolen.

Anyway, whatcha think?

 

[Iceciro]

I really did like the idea of the Dural being able to produce super-equipment.

May plunder that for Fall Flat....

 

[WarKirby]

EDIT:
1.) Monument to Perfection (replaces the regular monument)- Standard monument but allows one citizen to become a bard.

2.) College: (replaces Library)- +20%,+20%, allows one citizen to become bard, allows one citizen to become sage.

3.) Festival: (replaces Market)- +3, -1 allows one bard, allows one sage.

These UBs should cost extra to build as they should simply be better than what they are replacing.

I'd have to disagree that these are better.
You have to keep in mind that culture is a largely irrelevant mechanic. Beyond the initial culture to get a city going, you can just never look at it again and not care.

Therefore, a monument that allows a free bard, is at best, meh. It could actually be a bad thing as the AI governor likes to assign specialists automatically, and I don't want artists corrupting my GP pool.

I'm pretty sure Dural already have a "college" building, and it's better than what you described here. A base library gives +25% research by the way, so this is actually weaker than a normal library. Again, the extra culture and sage slot are largely irrelevant.

The festival, is horrible. A market without the merchant slots is a bad idea. Merchants are a rare enough GP type as it is, and a market is critical if you need to get an early merchant to found a guild.


In general, I'd say steer away from culture/bard bonuses, because they're pretty worthless. Bards are already just about the easiest type of GP to get, and also the single least useful.

Focus more on Engineers for Dural, which are pitifully rare for most civs. Representing the quality of their craftsmanship and industrial achievements.



Oh, also, just putting "Dural" in front of things, like Dural Market and Dural Courthouse, is horribly bland and uninventive. Put some effort into coming up with nice names. The point is to distinguish the dural more, and add to their uniqueness. Giving them bland things won't help


Some random name ideas:

Market - Trade Hub, Bazaar, Merchant Pavillion, Exposition, Fete

Elder Council - City Council, Council Chambers, Mayor's Office, Assembly

Library - University, Hall of Learning, Athenaeum, Biblioteca

Courthouse: Magistrate, Seat of Judgement, Administratorium, Cloister

Carnival: Circus, Bacchanal, Fiesta, Saturnalia


If you have no imagination, just go use a thesaurus, and broaden your vocabulary. Put a little effort into it, people.

 

[Iceciro]

I wonder if it's walking too far into the territory of the Sidar if the Dural were to get buildings that increased the power of specialists.

Potential Example:

Grand Study: +25% and +5% for each Sage Specialist in this city.

 

[Mylon]

Focus more on Engineers for Dural, which are pitifully rare for most civs. Representing the quality of their craftsmanship and industrial achievements.

I disagree with this. The AI governer will typically choose engineers over all other specialists so engineers pop with decent frequency. However, there are tons of uses for engineers, from rushing wonders to founding guilds to creating master smiths.

 

[Breez]

I seem to get more sages by far than all other GPs combined. I allow the AI to manage my specilists.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

I wonder if it's walking too far into the territory of the Sidar if the Dural were to get buildings that increased the power of specialists.

Potential Example:

Grand Study: +25% and +5% for each Sage Specialist in this city.

Yes, this would be fun.
That way you would be able to specialise each city to the extreme or keep them a moderate middle. Eather way it would pull you into a specialist economy that suts the Dural lore of perfectionism.

 

[Perfection]

1.) Monument to Perfection

I support this.

 

[deadliver]

I think that the Dural National Wonder Monuments also need to be reworked, I just have no idea how yet.

 

[WarKirby]

Great People types in order of usefulness.
Engineer
Merchant
Prophet
Commander
Sage
Bard

But anyway, the point is, dural seem very engineer-oriented. The balseraphs have the culture thing covered.

I think a heavily industrial race is what's really needed. True there already is the Khazad, but what if you don't like hoarding gold. Or short people.

What I personally think would make them more fun to play, is easier and more access to great engineers, quite a few UB's that promote a builder playstyle. And possibly some things that promote peace too.

I believe their lore mentions students coming from all over Erebus to study in dural colleges. Perhaps that could be worked in. Open Borders agreements could generate more commerce in cities containing educational buildings. And friendly units which move into your cities would gain passive xp, (and you would gain gold) as long as they're there.

I'm not a fan of the idea of them creating master equipment without the buildings. It has to be made somewhere. But giving them easier access to engineers would make it easier for them to get those buildings. I think they should also have a significant cost reduction for the equipment, and a few unique pieces of equipment of their own.

Along these lines, there are a few Master Buildings that seem oddly missing. Perhaps the Dural could be given them.

Master Shipwright - Improvements for ships. Some examples

• Plated Hull (+1 strength)
• Quality Sails (+1 movement speed)
• Tuned Rudder (+20% withdrawal chance, +20% vs naval units)
• Master Forged Cannons (+2 ranged attack strength, only for ships which have cannons)
• Crow's Nest (+1 visibility)
• Harpoon Launchers (+40% vs Beast units. For fighting krakens and such.)

Master Siegecraft - Improvements for siege weapons

• Spiked Wheels (-1 terrain movement cost)
• Explosive Shot (+30% collateral damage with ranged attacks)

Master Enchanter - For Disciple and Arcane units. These would be VERY expensive, require enchantment mana, and have tech prereqs along the arcane line. Perhaps each individual item here could require a specific mana type too.

• Basic Staff (+5 spell damage)
• Potent Staff (+10 spell damage, -5% resistance modifier on spells, replaces the above)
• Archmage's Scepter (+15 spell damage, -10% resistance modifier, replaces above)
• Boots of Mobility (+1 movement, immune to holding spells)
• Robe of Protection (+15% magic resistance)
• Armoured Robe (+1 Strength, -5 spell damage (impedes arcane power))
• Orb of Truth (+1 visibility, allows seeing invisible units)
• Ring of Regeneration (Can heal while moving, +10% heal rate)
• Dowsing Rod (+100 work rate (building mana nodes), allows a mini localised version of the Dowsing ritual)
• Cloak of Shadows (+30% withdrawal chance)
• Rune of Escape (50% chance to be teleported back to your capital instead of dying, when defeated in combat)

Maybe I got a little carried away with the latter, but I do really like the idea of being able to buy cool equipment for my priests and mages too. Generally a mage isn't going to benefit much from a shiny new sword, but I could see them aquiring rare magical artifacts to aid them in ways similar to how I described above. Perhaps things like these shouldn't just be limited to one race.

 

[deadliver]

As I mentioned before I like the possibility of trade routes generating something beyond commerce, such beakers.

EDIT: I like the idea of more items, especially Dural related ones.

 

[Mylon]

As I mentioned before I like the possibility of trade routes generating something beyond commerce, such beakers.

Why? Commerce _is_ beakers, if your science slider is at 100%. If it's not at 100%, then you obviously need the cash.

 

[deadliver]

Why? Commerce _is_ beakers, if your science slider is at 100%. If it's not at 100%, then you obviously need the cash.

True, but it would simulate open borders and people of other civs coming to study. Unless you can think of something else to do this, such as adding a UB that is a University that provides extra trade routes I don't see any other way. Course I am not a mod expert, just a loudmouth.

 

[The NeverTide]

I agree that the Dural national statue wonders need to be reworked. I would like the idea of them being significantly more expensive, roughly 600 each but with a 25% faster build time with marble, but providing both a global effect to the entire civ in addition to a more focused national effect in the city they're constructed in. Also, I don't see the difference between Courage and Valor, though I suspect the statues were named as such for convenience and because of their effects. Also, what about having a more powerful statue that requires the building of all the others? Deadliver's Monument to Perfection would be a great name (minus the deadliver part, kinda kills the feel ). This would give some massive bonus to the civ as I see it. Maybe block all others from being constructed in the capital and force the monument to be built there, and movement of the palace would result into either a switch of places with a statue or in its destruction.

A few examples, bear in mind these are off the top of my little head and are intended as a base to spark better, more refined ideas:

Statue of Inspiration. 600 , 25% faster production with marble
Effects: All adept and disciple units (or..students?) receive an additional free promotion. All units built in this city receive an additional free promotion (stackable with civ-wide effect).

Statue of Purity. " " "
Effects: All units gain the "cure disease" spell while in cultural borders and retain the spell for two turns while outside of borders. Units built in this city are immune to disease.

Again, just a few ideas, would obviously need testing and balancing. I have a few more ideas, but I'll throw those out if anyone ends up actually interested in this. Also, what about if the monument to perfection came fairly late game (thinking SoW or somewhere along those lines or maybe mithril working and required mithril??) and allowed the statues to grant the city specific bonuses to the entire civ?

I was also toying around with the concept of a unique GP for the Dural, the Great Artisan. This concept died when I tried to imagine the uses. But what if you need this particular unique GP to build any of their unique epic equipment, along with other prereq's (like resources and techs)? Maybe tie the GP to the statue wonders and allow the statues to generate +GPP towards this unique great person. This would give an even greater incentive to spread out to accommodate all of these national wonders, and would making building them extremely desirable not only for their effects but for the equipment.

I wonder if it's walking too far into the territory of the Sidar if the Dural were to get buildings that increased the power of specialists.

Potential Example:

Grand Study: +25% and +5% for each Sage Specialist in this city.

Personally I think it would be too close to the Sidar's territory. I love the fact that all, or at least most, of the civs have a very unique feel and playstyle. I feel that retaining and refining that is the most important objective, personally.

I agree with WarKirby's idea about making the Dural more engineer-associated. The Dural admire perfection in their work, and I've always seen great works of architecture and sculpting as a better medium for that outlet than singing or painting, not that those don't have their places.

Open Borders agreements could generate more commerce in cities containing educational buildings. And friendly units which move into your cities would gain passive xp, (and you would gain gold) as long as they're there.

I really like this idea as well.

As far as the Master Enchanter, I really like the idea but I don't see it as a very Dural-ish type of outlet. First civ that comes to mind for that is the Luchiurp, then maybe Amurites or Khadi of course. That would be awesome though. I'm all for expanding the equipment floating around in the game.