Preliminary Tips and Strategy

[iop]

I would even argue to buy land to get a resource like Gold, Silver or Gems.

If you found a city close to a resource that is just 1 hex away from an enemy's or city-state's border, hurry and buy those hexes as soon as you can! Nothing's more annoying than having someone else claim your luxury/strategic resource.

 

[Grotius]

Wonderful thread! Some questions and comments:

1. Wow, hammer overflow is lost? Is that true of science too? I don't mind, I'm just surprised!

2. Also, I didn't realize that social policies become more expensive as you add new cities. Are you sure? I don't see that in the manual. It just seems to say that each policy costs more than its predecessor, and that the cost increases with difficulty level. But if you're right, then it really pays to keep one's empire small if one wants a culture win, which is what I was hoping for in my first game.

3. It sounds like I'm not doing enough with city-states! I've done quests for them occasionally, but that's about it. I'll try to pay more attention to them in my next game.

4. Does anyone know how much units cost in maintenance? Is the maintenance cost always the same, or do modern units cost more than early ones? The civilopedia says the costs are listed there, but I don't see them.

5. We don't get trade routes if we connect roads to foreign cities or city-states, do we? So there's no economic reason to build roads except between our own cities?

6. Are railroads worth it? That 2g/tile cost would eat up my paltry 8g surplus fast.

 

[Alexfrog]

Regarding production:

Hammer overflow is lost! (at least in the demo version, I guess it is the same in the final version?)

So finally we are back to Civ3 times, where you had to micromanage your city. I like that!

You like it? I hate it, so much. To play optimally I have to constantly tinker with my workers to make sure I dont run over the cost, or a city expansion value, or a tech cost? Ugh. Have we not evolved away from this crap? Do game producers not figure out that overflows make the game much better? Its like we are back to the dark ages here.

 

[Alexfrog]

3. It sounds like I'm not doing enough with city-states! I've done quests for them occasionally, but that's about it. I'll try to pay more attention to them in my next game.

You arent. Maritime city states especially are insanely helpful.

4. Does anyone know how much units cost in maintenance? Is the maintenance cost always the same, or do modern units cost more than early ones?

Way too freaking much!

5. We don't get trade routes if we connect roads to foreign cities or city-states, do we? So there's no economic reason to build roads except between our own cities?

Correct. You dont have to hook up resources by road either. Just connect each city with the capital.

 

[Maxor127]

I see people saying to build trading posts everywhere. So that includes on hills instead of mines? And what about river tiles? Farms seemed best on rivers to me.

Anyways, I've noticed you can build trading posts in forests too. Does that destroy the forest?

 

[Trickster7135]

Wonderful thread! Some questions and comments:

1. Wow, hammer overflow is lost? Is that true of science too? I don't mind, I'm just surprised!

Not sure on science, but its such a small amount lost anyways it doesn't really matter unless you're just that serious about it. There's no 2 or 3 turn buildings in this game like civ4, everything takes 10+ turns, so you only lose out less than 1% production.

2. Also, I didn't realize that social policies become more expensive as you add new cities. Are you sure? I don't see that in the manual. It just seems to say that each policy costs more than its predecessor, and that the cost increases with difficulty level. But if you're right, then it really pays to keep one's empire small if one wants a culture win, which is what I was hoping for in my first game.

The annoying advisers let me know the first time I conquered a city. Didn't know about it before that.

3. It sounds like I'm not doing enough with city-states! I've done quests for them occasionally, but that's about it. I'll try to pay more attention to them in my next game.

They really are awesome. Military ones can give you a free unit - like a knight - the turn after you finish researching the tech for it. Nothing makes you feel the love better than that!

4. Does anyone know how much units cost in maintenance? Is the maintenance cost always the same, or do modern units cost more than early ones? The civilopedia says the costs are listed there, but I don't see them.

Right now, it seems pretty screwball. Sometimes deleting a unit adds +8 gold, sometimes there's no change. Might be an interface bug, or might be a screwball formula.

5. We don't get trade routes if we connect roads to foreign cities or city-states, do we? So there's no economic reason to build roads except between our own cities?

Correct. It's really a bonus just to mitigate connecting your cities so your units can move quickly on the defense. You won't really make much gold off of them.

6. Are railroads worth it? That 2g/tile cost would eat up my paltry 8g surplus fast.

I only build railroads from my unit production city connecting to any city on a border. If you're playing continents or archipelago, railroads can be ignored.

 

[Schalke 04]

You like it? I hate it, so much. To play optimally I have to constantly tinker with my workers to make sure I dont run over the cost, or a city expansion value, or a tech cost? Ugh.

It gives me the feeling that I actively can do something to improve the productivity of my cities. Without that it's a little bit too boring for me, especially as it is not uncommon to have a small empire. Start a building and wait/click 20 turns... Now I have the opportunity to check my cities now and then to see if everything is "all right". But I have to admit that I am a Civ3-addict and I am used to check the cities every turn like a maniac

 

[Trickster7135]

I see people saying to build trading posts everywhere. So that includes on hills instead of mines? And what about river tiles? Farms seemed best on rivers to me.

Anyways, I've noticed you can build trading posts in forests too. Does that destroy the forest?

Build trading posts everywhere flat and not by a river. They remove the forest if built on one.

 

[Maxor127]

Build trading posts everywhere flat and not by a river. They remove the forest if built on one.

And build farms on hills? I've been building farms on rivers, trading posts in flat non-river spots, and mines on hills and trying to save forests for lumbermills.

 

[Grotius]

The annoying advisers let me know the first time I conquered a city. Didn't know about it before that.

Hmm, is it possible your social-policy cost increased because you were taking over a foreign city? I'm still surprised that adding our own homegrown cities (with settlers) also adds to the social-policy cost. I suppose I could test this myself, but I need to tear myself away from Civ 5 for a few hours.

 

[Trickster7135]

And build farms on hills? I've been building farms on rivers, trading posts in flat non-river spots, and mines on hills and trying to save forests for lumbermills.

Build farms on river hills, and chop those forests. There's no benefits for leaving forests like in civ4 with the health bonus. Just chop and put an improvement on it.

 

[Trickster7135]

Hmm, is it possible your social-policy cost increased because you were taking over a foreign city? I'm still surprised that adding our own homegrown cities (with settlers) also adds to the social-policy cost. I suppose I could test this myself, but I need to tear myself away from Civ 5 for a few hours.

Same thing with using settlers, you can check by just looking at the x/y cost on culture. Settle a new city, x stays the same but y increases.

 

[SevenSpirits]

Guys, HAMMER OVERFLOW IS NOT LOST.

The interface is just really bad. It will never tell you the overflow, but after one turn of working on the new build it will have been added in. Same goes for chops. They never show up in the interface, but they'll be added in next turn. Put together this means if you chop into the last turn of a build, you won't see the result show up for TWO more turns.

What is interesting is that chops don't get % modifiers (at least, the 25% wonder bonus from having marble nearby). And AIs can win wonder ties. Yes, I'm bitter. But the result of this bitterness was a series of experiments to figure out where I was losing the hammers (in this case, the lack of chop bonus).

 

[Alexfrog]

Guys, HAMMER OVERFLOW IS NOT LOST.

The interface is just really bad. It will never tell you the overflow, but after one turn of working on the new build it will have been added in. Same goes for chops. They never show up in the interface, but they'll be added in next turn. Put together this means if you chop into the last turn of a build, you won't see the result show up for TWO more turns.

I hope you are right! I was only testing by looking at the next turn, and not seeing my overflow.

 

[EverNoob]

Build trading posts everywhere flat and not by a river. They remove the forest if built on one.

Hmmm I've been playing Iroquois and I've been building Trading posts in forests. The forests stay.

 

[Maxor127]

Hmmm I've been playing Iroquois and I've been building Trading posts in forests. The forests stay.

I wonder if it's special for Iroquois. Eitehr way, the tool tip must be wrong then, because if I have a worker in the forest, the tool tip for trading post will say +2 gold without the -1 hammer from destroying the forest like Irrigation would have.

 

[gaiko]

No the forests stay with TPs for any civ

 

[Trickster7135]

No the forests stay with TPs for any civ

Interesting, I just assumed it chopped the forest. Must be because I always chop then build that and I hate having forests. So its like a camp then. One minor mystery solved lol

 

[SevenSpirits]

I hope you are right! I was only testing by looking at the next turn, and not seeing my overflow.

I'm positive; I did a couple tests.

It's also interesting to note that it doesn't truncate fractional values. Although in some interface locations only whole number values are shown, you actually get full value from % bonuses even if you aren't making a multiple of 4 (or whatever) production.

 

[Guardian_PL]

Played through a couple of games on standard size/speed with Greeks and India. Here's some notes I've come up with to help myself and anyone else when adjusting to this new civ:

1. Make city-states your friends. Obviously Greeks have a better time of this, but even India did a fine job. The Indian bonus, which encourages not rexing, is well suited to making friends with city-states and using them as national borders against other civs. Additionally, keeping city-states in good graces becomes very easy once you get to Patronage social policies, and is very lucrative regardless of your desired path to victory. Even cultured city-states make great allies for warmongers, as there is plenty of military bonus social polices you can invest in.

All nice and fun, but sadly all you need is money, and you just buy them when you need them. Not initially of course, roughly in the mid-game but when the tile purchasing cost ramps up too much and you'll sell your excess luxury resources to the AI for gold/turn, adding gold age you can have like +126/turn

2. Standard speed games are slower than they were in civ4, its more like playing on epic. Military units in general take longer to produce, compared to buildings, than in civ4.

Yup, but I think of trying Epic now so I can tech at a bit slower rate.

3. Gold is everything in this game. With enough gold, you can buy a worker, monument, temple, ect for a new city and not worry that it has no production. In fact, you can ignore production almost completely, food and gold are so much better. Farm those river hills, only bother with mines on hills not near a water source. Use gold to buy buildings, buy military, buy city-states, buy land. Everything but techs and improvements can be bought in this game.

100% agree, vide my response to #1

4. Going in line with #3, farm every riverside plot. Irrigation doesn't exist anymore, but Civil Service tech now just gives +1 food on riverside farms. And since now population is what determines science rate, getting huge populations is even more important than in civ4. Even if there was a slavery-like social policy, whipping citizens would be horrible in this game.

yes, I've found that crappy site but with few hills and four riverside grassland after Civil Service is amazing.

5. On a standard sized map, you may only be able to found three or four total cities in good locations and distances from each other before you run out of room. Don't be tempted to conquer the weak city-states! Become friends and allies, then use them to station your troops and start taking out a real civ nearby.

You can wipe out like one city state if they have good sites, also eradicate one of the AI near you to get some room - boom you have plenty of land.

6. If you're pursuing a peaceful strategy, you don't need to worry about expanding your empire. The three or four cities you can found at the start of the game is all you need. Building culture for social policies or even a cultural victory is made more difficult for every city to have, as the needed culture is increased for each city you have.

That's the common mistake imo. Initially it does seem that having more cities is couterproductive for culture, but just wait until each city you have is pumping out 30-50/turn, then you'll be glad you have 8 cities not 3, not to mention the money they all give.

7. Barbarians are a real force in this game. Its like playing with raging barbarians and barbarian city challenge, and they just keep poping up. Taking the first part of the tradition social policy before you build any other policy would be a good idea. Barbarians will be a problem into the middle ages, and taking them out is a great way to get on good terms with city-states. Releasing captured workers from other civs is a great way to get on good terms.

Oooh thank you! In my games they are a sad, sad joke (like Brutes/Pikemen popping out when everyone has Infantry), and their navy is nonexistant.
I'll definitely try your settings to hopefully get more fun

8. If you are pursing a military strategy, don't just annex other civs cities, its not worth the trouble. Turn them into puppet states.

Unless the site is really good, with a lot of hammers so you can build that Couthouse fast. Puppet state normally do decisions, and there's not much use from them. But if you're in mid-game, have many cities and the conquered ones are meh then sure, puppet-state is the way to go.

9. Land will be unclaimed for most of the game. Build cities by resources, as a city not next to any is generally not worth the trouble. Only buy land if you need a critical resource like iron or horses, or your city culture is not expanding the borders fast enough for your population growth.

I've found that building the cities in key locations (accesibilty to as many resources as possible) is more important than to settle next to the resources. Just buy a tile or two and you're game.

10. Every building has a gold per turn maintenance. Building every building in every city is foolish. Designate one city your military production city (probably the only one you would focus on building mines instead of trading posts), and only build military buildings there. Only build happiness buildings as they are needed or will be needed soon (when you have 5 or less happiness, basically). I suggest only building culture and food buildings in every city. The only maintenance free buildings are the gold producing once (market, bank, ect), so if you have nothing worth building, build those even if the city only makes 5 gold a turn.

100% agreed.

11. You need much fewer military units compared to civ4. Since there is no unit stacking, you can't even effectively attack a city with more than 6 or so units (3 melee, 3 ranged). Usually, two or three horsemen are all you need in the classical era, and having them pillage improvements is a fantastic source of income (I've gotten up to 30 gold just from a farm, in the middle ages). Also, there are no free units anymore, you pay in gold for every unit you have.

Yup, pillaging is great, it's either random or the more you pillage, the more you get - I started from like 2 or 8 gold, five pillages later it was 46!

That's all I got for now, if anyone wants to add their own, feel free! I certainly haven't got a full grasp on this game yet, and I doubt anyone has either.

Thank you for your input