Prince and AI cheating

[uanmi]

I have been playing on the harder levels and the ai is obviously given a boost if you start to chop.

If I set all of the workers to automatic then the ai matches my progress. If I manually use one or two workers to chop outside my area then the ai progresses at twice my rate. By the time I have reached a score of 800 the ai is at 1400.

If I have two workers chopping on one city and this city is trying to get the pyramids, just before it is mine a message comes up saying the ai has it. This happens every time, even if I do nothing but make two workers and then aim for the pyramids and nothing else.

I'm of a mind to give this game a rest - permanently

I can understand trying to make the ai competitive, but this is stupid. The only approach is to use a small land mass, no barbarians and just chop, make 10 warriors and then attack the ai. On any larger land mass this becomes impossible because he has archers before you get to him.

the only approach I have found where the ai does not go crazy is to have one or two workers building cottages and the rest on auto. This gives you a chance against the ai becoming impossible to beat.

I'm using prince level and romans against barbarians and one ai.

regards, Mark

 

[Julian Delphiki]

Play on settler?

 

[uanmi]

? - what do you mean

 

[Vulcans]

Please elaborate

 

[dubrown]

It's certainly possible to get the wonders before the AI on Prince and even on harder levels, but it's alot more strategy (and some luck) to make it than on noble and easier levels.

I can't say I've noticed any relation between chopping a wonder and the AI gets a boost in their wonderproduction. But I know for sure I've managed to claim the Pyramids on more than one occasion on Prince level. Though if you face a industrious, wonderfocused AI it'll be alot harder to get the early wonders.

 

[uanmi]

What this has done is to make the game great - I play for an hour and see the ai get twice my score and I then say to myself, what's the point and stop. At least this is helping me stop playing the game.

I have seen people say they win using small land and no barbarians and chopping. so what is the benefit of this. The programmers need to fix things quickly.

I was amazed at how everything changes when you start to chop with one or two workers. The whole game changes and the ai just takes over. I have the ai at guilds and I'm still chopping through feudalism.

Who said this game was good?

regards, Mark

 

[BalbanesBeoulve]

The AI gets absolutely no bonuses to wonder production over a player. None. They get bonuses to everything else, but NOT wonders. If a civ beats you to a wonder, they beat you to it fair and square (except for being able to tech the required technology quicker).

Also your statement that the AI suddenly gets boosts if you start to chop is just ridiculous. The AI behaves the same whether you chop, whether you don't chop, whether you chop with 1, 2 or 3 workers.

You seem like a new player. So why do you want the pyramids exactly? The only reason to get them is if you're running a lot of specialists, which most new players don't. Otherwise you're better off building more settlers for more cities, more axemen and archers for defense, and other more useful wonders, like stonehenge.


The reason the AI is doubling your score is because it's building more cities than you and has a bigger population, and claimed more land. You can do that too. Just build more settlers.

Also don't set your workers to work automatically. You can't beat prince difficulty by doing that. You need to learn to control them yourself.

 

[uanmi]

I have been playing the game on my computer for nearly 3 months and have completed probably 60 games on prince level against barbarians and one random ai.

The other day I tried to use the chop approach and all of a sudden everything changed with the ai. Now the ai will be at 1400 when I'm at 800. To say that the ai is not getting a boost is not correct. If I start a game and play by my old strategy of two workers building cottages to make money and the rest on auto the ai has never been more than 100 in front of me.

I have been playing with roman and as I said against barbarians and one random ai on prince. Great plains and large map.

Another indicator there is a change. On old strategy would never see the ai scout until 25-30 moves, now the ai scout is at my door in no more than 10 moves.

So it must be my computer giving the ai the boost?

 

[BalbanesBeoulve]

The AI is not going to act differently just because you chop. The game doesn't work that way. Chopping isn't a method, it's not a trick, it's just a part of the game. The AI will not react to you chopping in any way, shape, or form. It doesn't care that you chop.

What could be happening is that you're playing against opponents that know how to expand better. Some civs like Elizabeth expand very very slowly. Others like Catherine or Gilgamesh will produce nonstop settlers and claim as much territory as quickly as they can. They don't all behave the same way.

And playing on prince hardly proves you know how to play the game when you're only playing against 1 opponent. Try playing against the standard 6 civs on a standard map with a civilization that's not ridiculously overpowered like Rome.

 

[Refar]

If I set all of the workers to automatic then the ai matches my progress. If I manually use one or two workers to chop outside my area then the ai progresses at twice my rate.

Sorry to say that, but it seems thet you just need to read a article or two on City specialization and terrain improvement, because it sounds like you do a even worse job in managing the workers, than the Automation does (And Auto is quite bad already)... And perhaps some other as well. Start with the Strategy Guide for Beginners, if you dont know it yet. -> http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=165632

Could it be the trouble is you chop, but do not improve the choped tiles ? - sounds like that...

Since - as already stated in the thread - the AI does not get any bonus on worker Performance, not at building the Pyramids... All AI bonus are listed in the HandycapInfo.XML (and in the Reference Sheeet, for easier Access).

The AI does not Cheat beyond those Bonus.

 

[dubrown]

As refar said, If you just chop and doesn't improve the tiles your citizens work you will have a very poor economy, thus the AI player will pull ahead of you. When you did let the automated workers do their job and did som cottages yourself, you got improved tiles which gave you food, hammers and gold, if you only chopped and didn't improve anything you only got short burst of hammers from the choppings but left your city with less production overall. Chopping should be done when, and only when, you really needs to hurry up a production of something or in some cases, can get better production of the tile with another improvement.

Browse through the articles in the "War academy". It's not only about war as it may sound but contains good articles by experienced players that covers almost everything worth knowing in Civilization. The war academy can be reached from the first page of "civfanatics.com" (on the left side panel)

As I said before, with easier levels than Prince you can pretty much do whatever you want and still be able to beat the AI, but from Prince and upwards, you need to learn the game mechanics to beat the AI.

 

[Winston Hughes]

Who said this game was good?

The game is good (exceptionally so, imo). I'm afraid it's you that isn't - yet. That's not a criticism, btw, we all have to start somewhere, and, in contrast to most other computer games, civ takes a long time to master. I've been playing for years and I'm still nowhere near having mastered it.

But the first step to becoming a better player is appreciating that the cause of your problems is not the AI's cheating, but rather your own lack of understanding and experience. Although the AI does receive bonuses, it does not cheat in the way you (and countless others) think it does. Focus on your own game, read the advice given by more experienced players, and don't let a couple of setbacks knock the wind out of your sails.

The second step is to ignore the scores - at best these are a very loose indication of a civ's overall strength, but often they are completely misleading. It's perfectly possible to win from the bottom of the scoreboard and to loose from the top. What matters is that you develop your civ according to a coherent, goal-oriented strategy, and learn to start planning your path to victory from fairly early on in the game.

Finally, if you read up on strategy and game mechanics (see the links below), plan your strategy carefully, and target your victory condition early, but yet still fall short of your target, then the best thing you can do is come back here with a description of your strategy (and, ideally, a savegame for us to look at), so as to receive some personalised advice.

Some useful links to get you started:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=165632

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=246889&highlight=orion's+home+school

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=215506

 

[DaveMcW]

If I start a game and play by my old strategy of two workers building cottages to make money and the rest on auto the ai has never been more than 100 in front of me.

If it works for you, keep doing it.

Chopping was overpowered in the past, but then it got nerfed.

 

[BARBEERIAN]

One thing to note too as that every time you jump a difficulty level the AI gets production bonuses, so you start having to really plan ahead and focus on the ones you really want, or they'll beat you to it. Sometimes too you just get bad lack with say a bunch of Industrious civs on the map and a few of them have stone/marble. If that's the case build an army and make sure to thank them for building those wonderful Pyramids for you and keeping the city all nice and cozy for your troops.

Also try pre-chopping a bunch of forests so they're 1 turn away from being finished and road them up. The turn the wonder is available your worker can blast through finishing up all those chops at a very rapid pace to get a huge jumpstart on the wonder. On Prince and up you'll have to be doing more things like that to beat the AI's to wonders.

 

[towishimp]

What this has done is to make the game great - I play for an hour and see the ai get twice my score and I then say to myself, what's the point and stop. At least this is helping me stop playing the game.

I have seen people say they win using small land and no barbarians and chopping. so what is the benefit of this. The programmers need to fix things quickly.

I was amazed at how everything changes when you start to chop with one or two workers. The whole game changes and the ai just takes over. I have the ai at guilds and I'm still chopping through feudalism.

Who said this game was good?

regards, Mark

Everyone else has made good strategy suggestions. People on this board know a lot, and it often pays to listen to what they say. And they're right...the omputer doesn't "cheat", although it's a commonly held misperception.

I'll also add this: If Prince is too hard and you find yourself frustrated and thinking about not playing the game anymore, then lower the difficulty. The first few times I tried Prince, I got absolutely buried. So I went back down one and played more, focusing on really maximizing my play. Recently, I've made my second run on Prince. It's still difficult for me, but sometimes I win. Don't worry about the fact that some people play on the hardest difficulty levels. Just do what's the most fun for you.

 

[Bleys]

I dont understand you here, are you saying that because you cant beat Prince, the AI somehow "cheats"? Thats kind of crazy, considering how many players on these boards consider Prince one of the "easier" levels. Personally, I think Prince is about the mid-point between Easy and Hard, sort of "normal difficulty" if you will.

I agree with the consensus opinion that you seem to lack an overall plan, and are basically playing a "hit n miss" style. One piece of advice I will offer is to REALLY customize your games. If your goal is to build the Pyramids, while being able to maintain your teching with the AIs, then play an IND leader, and manually pick opponents that arent IND or FIN. Try not to overchop and ignore terrain improvements. Balance is the key to success. Perhaps your teching in a haphazard way as well, focus your plan down, and follow it. Sticking in techs not on your main-plan-path just because you "can", and dont build unneeded buildings for the same reason, just because you "can". Streamlining your plan, and properly executing it with solid whipping, chopping, tiles worked, techs, etc, is the first step to defeating the higher levels.

 

[Beamup]

Without greater skills, Prince is beyond you. Drop down to Warlord at least; probably Chieftain.

 

[OTAKUjbski]

Welcome to the forums!

Most likely, your emphasis on chopping led to a de-emphasis elsewhere (possibly to tile improvement, growth and expansion).

The AI's game didn't change -- yours did!

Without greater skills, Prince is beyond you. Drop down to Warlord at least; probably Chieftain.

I wouldn't go that far, but it's a fair idea.

If you're not having fun at your current level, there's nothing wrong with going down a level.

If you like this level and want to learn it, then by all means learn it -- but don't accuse the AI of cheating just because you can't hack it.


In either case, do whatever makes you enjoy most the money you spent on this game.

 

[molson]

There are no such things as cheating AIs. They indeed only get bonuses depending on difficulty level.

There are no relations between your workers' actions and what the AI does.

Having this said, never automate settlers. Never.

 

[uanmi]

On Noble I win every game. I do not chop at all and only have two workers on building cottages, the rest on auto.

I played another game last night and same result. It was almost a miracle that on a standard map with only one ai the ai's scout appeared after about 10 moves. This never happened before I started to chop.

I decided to not go for any improvements other than Oracle and I got that and took metal casting with it.

Still the ai was nearly double my score by the time I got to 800. I had 6 cities and the ai had 10.

I appreciate the "newby" thing here, but alas I am not. If I make the map smaller I can chop rush and assault and win easily. I have done this about 10 times recently.

Hmm, the only other setting that I have not discussed is that the victory conditions are conquest and nothing else.

Off topic, I would like to ask 2 questions.

1. how many workers are reasonable per city? If this is different at different times in the game, I would appreciate an aswer say if you had 6-10 cities.

2. Has anyone tried to a strategy to find the ai and put the second city next to the ai, and then move the palace there and then to try to box the ai in? I have found that when the ai can be seen and restricted in land area it is possible to win in prince quite easily

I'm going to try again with some of the input that this thread has contained.

regards
Mark