Prince is too easy, King+ is unenjoyable

snuggans

Chieftain
Joined
Oct 4, 2010
Messages
11
Civ 5 does the difficulty tiers a lot better than Civ 6, they feel more gradual and I can still have an enjoyable game all the way up to Emperor and end up accomplishing most of the goals I wanted to get done, but in Civ 6 once I go past Prince, I can't even build Stonehenge or establish a religion at all, it doesn't mean I can't still win but missing out on one of the core features of the game makes me want to restart, and if I do choose to keep playing, the rest of the game isn't very enjoyable. wish the AI just played smarter instead of pulling things out of their ass

this, along with a bunch of other nitpicks like capitals being spawned too close to each other, the AI typically settling new cities towards the direction of the human player, barbarian camps chain-spawning cavalry even though crazy barbarians option isnt turned on, the continents seeming smaller yet real-estate being more important, all of it makes me miss Civ 5, which is a shame because I like everything else about Civ 6 and want to like the game overall
 
Last edited:
On Diety ish levels sure, but I literally just finished a game on King when I founded a religion in the Medieval Age.

If you really want a religion you'll have to commit for it on higher difficulties. If you want to just have everything without focusing on it, then that is what the lower difficulties are for, and this is as it should be. Not every game needs to be set up so you can do everything easily at the highest difficulty.

That being said...I find King no different than Prince really, King is my chill/roleplaying difficulty. In fact the only significant jump in difficulty I think is King -> Emperor. If you can beat Emperor you can beat Deity imo and likewise if you can beat Settler you can beat King.

If you want a religion, build an early holy site, run the prophet card, get holy site prayers going, etc. It's very doable.

But also ask yourself...why do I want a religion so badly? For me the game is a lot more fun when I just ignore that whole part of the game. And if it's just because you want everything, just play at lower levels, there's no shame in that!
 
Icicle said:
I literally just finished a game on King when I founded a religion in the Medieval Age.

hmm, i was in the classical age, 3/6 religion slots had been filled, and 3 other civs had way more Prophet points than i did, so i wasn't gonna get it. must be the randomness of each game. still think Stonehenge should be much less difficult to rush on King, it's like night and day between it and Prince. if the only two choices are to either play a boring difficulty or to be locked out of core gameplay features, that's just bad game design. i noticed that the difficulty parameters in Civ 5 are more nuanced than the one in Civ 6 which just gives big boosts to the AI
 
Yes honestly there is a very small gap between prince and king. If you're suddenly struggling on King it's because you just have to get used to the tiny 20% bonuses the AI gets. Once you're able to catch up adequately you'll see it's not a big change. As for religion go one of the early techs then astrology...build order of scout, slinger, slinger, holy site, shrine. You'll get the 2nd or 3rd religion easy peasy on King. Feel free to message me with more questions. King isn't tough to get a religion, just need to understand the bonuses you need to overcome.
 
A few weeks ago I played (and won a religious victory) with Arabia on Emperor. I managed to get the penultimate Prophet, using both the Policy card for Great Prophet points and buying the Prophet with Faith points in the end. I have built the Oracle as well.

The goal was to form my religion earlier and get Mosques. I did not want to wait for the Arabia to kick in and give me the last prophet automatically.

Some things that might help you get a religion easier :
- building a holy site even before your second city. I usually just buy a settler in that case with the money saved from exploring the map.
- Great prophet policy card.
- buying straight away a Shrine with gold or chopping it. Not needed in most games, as Shrines are easy to build on your own.
- building the Oracle. The AI rarely goes for it, even on higher difficulty than Emperor. It will allow you to both get more Great Prophet points and buy one cheaper with Faith. It comes in handy even in later Eras to buy other Great people.
- save your faith and just buy the Prophet after some time. The Oracle helps quite a bit with this.

You can easily benefit from all the core features even on higher than King difficulty. Just integrate getting a religion into your overall strategy. It was quite fun making sure when and where to build my first Holy site, as well as the Oracle. :)
 
Last edited:
I play on King. :-) If you want a religion on King, there are two options for generic civs (not counting Arabia, Russia, Greece and Indonesia)

* Get a Golden Classical Age and pick Exodus. This is viable on King.
* Expand early, because you'll need at least two Holy Sites and a shrine.

Increase you map size accordingly, because that increases the amount of religions that can be founded. Large works the best imo. 6 religions and a lower chance for Russia and Arabia to spawn. I never failed to found a religion on large/King when I wanted to found one.
 
Once you get used to it, it's not so bad. It's fairly close to Prince. I actually find King quite enjoyable. I like that they don't start with the extra settler like on Emperor diff. So it feels fairly even to me, like the AI isn't cheating much. You can make up that 20% with efficient play. You may lose a couple more wonders, but you can still build many.

Stonehenge and early wonder I do sacrifice, but getting a religion is easy with holy site + shrine. My order is scout, builder, settler, holy site, shrine. Usually one holy site is enough, but I did have Japan wipe out my religion one game, so be careful.
 
Last edited:
On King is quite easy to get religion , I always get it 2nd or 3rd , Stonehenge is too risky , tho possible if I insta rush for it , but depends on location I start.
 
I play exclusively on King. I learned not to even try going for Stonehenge as it's a waste of time. The AI goes nuts for it. I can build more or less any other wonder I want with proper planning, though.

As others have said, if you want a religion on King you need to build holy sites early. If I am playing a religion game I often build a holy site before a campus or settler. It's easy to catch up in science but you can obviously never found a religion if they have all gone.
 
If you can beat Emperor you can beat Deity imo

I don't find that to be the case. I win most every game I play at Emperor. About 60% at Immortal, and maybe 10% at Deity.

Usually Holy Site Prayers produce Prophet points faster than building a Shrine. If getting the religion is important for your strategy and you don't have a bonus of some kind to getting it, then running Prayers twice will usually get you one, even on Deity. Although it must be said that it's super risky on Immortal+ to devote that much production to a religion so early in the game, especially since you'll also probably need to burn a lot of faith defending against early AI missionaries (unless you just declare war and stomp on them with your Warrior, which carries its own risk).
 
On King you rush oracle and build a campus and some other district.

That will probably be a win in most cases

The most common district should be the campus. Theater Squares can be useful early, and sometimes you need a trade district if you need gold but don't go overboard. 1 Entertainment district for the Colosseum. Don't build useless districts like Holy Sites or Industrial Zones-- you can capture those. Well, you need Holy Sites for religion but I don't recommend that either until you get better.

As for wonders, try to not invest too much in those. Just copy and pasting my take: If you have trouble winning, I'd only build t0/t1 wonders.
Spoiler :

T0: Colosseum (solves amenities)

T1: Pyramids (better builders), and Big Ben (double gold), Forbidden City (+1 wildcard), Kilwa Kisiwani (Large bonuses from the right CS's, Oxford (tech boost)

T2: Temple of Artemis (Great, but huge opportunity cost), St Basil's (Multipurpose cultural and production wonder), Great Library (Big Science/culture boost), Oracle (great people gambits), Bolshoi Theater (Culture boost), Effel Tower (Resort Spam, also must have for Australia/Mapuche)

Situationally Strong: Mt St.Michel (Mass relics!) Venetian Arsenal (some water maps), Casa de Contratación (Spread out empires), Apadana (Mostly China), Amundsen-Scott (late, but strong if you can actually build it.

One city wonders (Petra, Chichen, Great Zimbabwe, Broadway, etc) can be good but the thing is the game still prefers city count so individual cities are just not as impactful as they were in previous games. I mean yes, you can have an amazing city for those wonders but it's not something you can always rely upon.


Also go to war early. Build mostly troops at the start and pillage things if you can't capture cities. Burn down what you can't keep.

I also agree that it is sorta lame how restrictive that early items get taken, but honestly these things are bad builds anyways. You're just not punished for them in prince since the AI can't do too much about it.

Also, the map generator is terrible.
 
Last edited:
Civ 5 does the difficulty tiers a lot better than Civ 6, they feel more gradual and I can still have an enjoyable game all the way up to Emperor and end up accomplishing most of the goals I wanted to get done, but in Civ 6 once I go past Prince, I can't even build Stonehenge or establish a religion at all,

Stonehenge is hard to get at the highest difficulties, but not impossible - I'd be surprised if it's not feasible on Emperor, as long as Astrology is one of your first 3-4 techs. Bear in mind that you'll often need to chop woodland or stone to finish it. I doubt however that it is usually worth the effort compared with naturally earning a Great Prophet, for which you want The Oracle and a beeline to Political Philosophy once you have Mysticism, for the Prophet card. Divine Spark can also help as your pantheon.

This route has the advantage that the Oracle and an early government are simply generally good for any strategy, and while Divine Spark isn't as good as specialised pantheons that fit your starting position better it's never bad to have. So even if you miss on a prophet you've started on a good route, while losing out on Stonehenge can set you back heavily and it's not a particularly special long-term buff anyway.

That said, I don't much like religion in Civ VI and usually do without it altogether on Deity - the religious combat and conversion system is excessively tedious, made worse by AI religion spam behaviour. I mostly use it to get martyred apostles if I want relics in quantity. I find it a core feature of the game the game is usually better without. Religious victory remains the one I've never got, mostly because I haven't really tried for it.

this, along with a bunch of other nitpicks like capitals being spawned too close to each other, the AI typically settling new cities towards the direction of the human player,

I suspect the idea is to promote reasons for conflict in the early game. You generally want to be in a position to either capture early cities if the AI settles near you (or occasionally city-states, but aside from militaristic states you usually want CS bonuses early in the game more than you want the city), or better yet to capture an AI's settler before it turns into a city.

barbarian camps chain-spawning cavalry even though crazy barbarians option isnt turned on,

I don't like the barbarian system in Civ VI at all - certain map types, like Inland Sea, seem to have greater incidence of barbarian activity that makes the game a slog to play. That said I don't find myself coming across horsemen camps often.

the continents seeming smaller yet real-estate being more important

I don't think I've noticed this - the maps feel relatively larger to me than in Civ V. There seems a fairly widespread opinion that map generation in Civ VI is problematic, though - basic elements such as the non-random distribution of resources (two luxuries per continent - which makes trading luxuries impossible on the smallest maps, where only one continent exists, for instance) and what we've recently learned is the allocation of space to each civ either are poorly-conceived or appear to work inconsistently in practice.

I haven't had the trouble you have with the game, but my best advice would be to remain flexible. I generally like to play reasonably peacefully at least in the early game, but in one recent game forward-settling by Georgia in one direction and a cavalry barbarian camp in the other completely prevented me from expanding peacefully at the start of the game, and I was slowed further by a starting position low on production next to tundra. So I changed tack, focused entirely on military, and took out the Georgian cities. That's a definite departure from my usual plan of building a couple of units to defend and settling ASAP..

You don't need to start seriously thinking about your route to victory until past turn 100 (and even then you can transition quite late after that at need), so losing access to religion isn't vital and shouldn't set you back too far. Civ VI can feel difficult in the early game when you're getting established - but it's extremely forgiving once you get to the mid and late game, allowing you to go for basically any victory with a late start. I'm routinely at or near the bottom of the civ rankings as late as turn 200 or so and can still win on Deity.
 
No difficulty level locks you out of any feature.

It just gets harder (i.e. more "difficult" one might say) to acquire them all.

Learning to give up building every wonder for instance is something that all civ games make you learn as you go up in difficulty level.

I just find the higher difficulty the more I have to approach it as a 'game' and less as a 'simulation' and since I prefer the latter I usually just play on lower levels once I have shown I can beat the highest. Again, play on the level you have the most fun at. If the challenge is fun, go for it, if you'd rather just build an empire with everything, go for that too. Civ has all these different options for a reason.
 
I honestly can't tell the difference between Prince and King anymore. I usually play on King when I just wanna play around and build all the wonders and make pretty cities.
 
Just keep to the lower difficulties. There you can build anything you want and make the prettiest empire of all time.
Once you go higher you are just 1 player, so you shouldn't be expected to get everything (even if the Civs didn't get the bonuses it would be terrible if you could) as there are other players all competing for the same set of wonders and religion spots.
Wonders and religion aren't core game play, they are nice additions in certain circumstances. If you aren't playing as a religious Civ there shouldn't be an expectation to found one, because that isn't the style of your Civ. It's just a nice addition if you manage to pull it off.

Even then, if you aren't doing it at King you can definitely look around for tips and guides to help you. It is definitely achievable, it may be more about adjusting how you play to do it. If that doesn't interest you then the only option is to play it on Prince.
 
It being harder to get a religion on higher levels is also true in 5.

If that's your major complaint, just stack the deck by setting a couple of AI opponents to one of the "non religious" leaders.

Or just use a mod increasing the number of religions.
 
It being harder to get a religion on higher levels is also true in 5.

If that's your major complaint, just stack the deck by setting a couple of AI opponents to one of the "non religious" leaders.

Or just use a mod increasing the number of religions.

Either that or play as Arabia.
 
Back
Top Bottom