Prisoner's Dillema

[nc-1701]

What does everyone think of the prisoner's dillema? Do you think it accuratly, though simply, potrays a persons day-to-day decisions.

I have talked about it a little before on the on the "logical earth" and "gyges ring" threads, but I wanted a thread solely devoted to it.

Wikipedia Link

Personally in my day-to-day life I have come to realize that I treat other people/the world basicaly based on the concept of Tit-for-Tat. In other words I co-operate first then do whatever the other person did last.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

The Prisnoer's Dilemma illustrates simply that regardless of the chocies available to others, we are best off seeking our own interests. In other words, were I such a prisoner then each possible outcome (whether the other prisoner talks or no) I am better off talking.

 

[brennan]

Only in a single closed situation Eran. Analysis shows that once you have made that decision, you'll pay for it in the future. It's best to co-operate.

 

[Sidhe]

No too simplistic, it accurately portrays simple linear situations. That's about it. Real world it's about as useful as a cat in a tractor. As if life is that simple, are you nuts

 

[JerichoHill]

Its much to simple for practical use, but the idea behind is very much correct.

But Im selfish, so I act in my self interest, so what do I care?

 

[Xanikk999]

Only in a single closed situation Eran. Analysis shows that once you have made that decision, you'll pay for it in the future. It's best to co-operate.

How can you assure that your partner will cooperate.

He can easily betray you if you both agree to stay silent, by confessing and getting away and you get slammed with 10 years!

 

[Sidhe]

Its much to simple for practical use, but the idea behind is very much correct.

But Im selfish, so I act in my self interest, so what do I care?

He who lives by the sword dies by the sword j/k. But it's true.

 

[Stegyre]

How can you assure that your partner will cooperate.

He can easily betray you if you both agree to stay silent, by confessing and getting away and you get slammed with 10 years!

You can't, but that is the point of both Brennan's and NC-1701's comments. In its simplest form, the prisoner's dilemma presumes a single interaction, in which case it's in both prisoners' interest to squeal, but real life involves repeated interactions, which will ultimately punish the "squealers" and reward the "co-operators." IIRC, game theory has verified NC-1701's strategy as the best for repeat-dilemmas.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Indeed, computer simulations have been done on this. The best long term strategy (assuming that there are no introduced errors) is to always start by cooperating, then in subsequent incidents to do what your counterpart last did to you.

 

[Madroc]

Actually, it depends on how you structure the experiment. In (arguably) more realistic sequential-play simulations, in which the player's moves were subject to occasional error, the winning strategy was "firm-but-fair": cooperate, but if the other party defects, 'punish' him once and then try cooperating again.
Some real-life scenarios resemble a one-play PD, and some resemble multiple-play. Defect/defect is a good abstraction of parasite/host relationships, for example, but firm-but-fair is somewhat congruent with he way people deal with each other.
For interesting discussions on the theoretical use of PD see Matt Ridley, The Red Queen (on my first example) or The Origins of Virtue (on my second.)

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Hence my comments about no introduced errors (which you told me about in the first place).

 

[Masquerouge]

Acting in your own self-interest does not equate being selfish, though.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

What does, then? What is the definition of "selfish"?

 

[Masquerouge]

What does, then? What is the definition of "selfish"?

Being selfish is acting in your best interest.

But acting in your best interest is not necessarily being selfish. It can be in your own self-interest to be generous/altruistic/selfless.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Well, if being selfish is acting in my own interest, and it may be in my own interest to be selfless, isn't it then selfish to be selfless

 

[Masquerouge]

Well, if being selfish is acting in my own interest, and it may be in my own interest to be selfless, isn't it then selfish to be selfless

You and your logic.



I have trouble expressing what I mean. To me, being selfish is just a subset of acting in your self-interest. We have an injection, not a bijection.

Being selfish is X, and acting in your self-interest is Y.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Okay, having established that selfishness is a subset of acting in one's own interest, what then defines it? Because your first definition was only that it is acting in one's interest.

 

[Masquerouge]

Well, selfishness is when you do things that will solely improve your position to the detriment of other's positions, while acting in your self-interest can actually improve not only your position but that of others.

 

[Xanikk999]

Masq thats just like exactly from my math textbook. Did you copy it from it?

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

So selfishness is that subset of self-interest that implies ignoring or harming other's interests?