Proportional Voting:FPtP to MMP

TLDR Version

To many broken promises in the 70's-90's and radical change leas to NZ going proportional.

Eg we had a right wing government go big on state intervention, a left wing government go big on neo liberalism and a right wing government campaigning against that double down on neo liberalism.

Personal thoughts.
Downsides. Incremental change ill suited to big problems.

5% threshold keeps out extremist parties but also radical ideas.

Politically government's trend towards left and right of center. Incremental change. Lurch to far left/right voters punish you.
 
Back in 2015, Justin Trudeau campaigned partially on abolishing the FPTP method, and made a promise that during his mandate (if elected), he would have a committee figure out an alternative, to make the House more representative of how people actually vote.

He lied. He did set up a committee... but initially stacked it with more than 50% Liberals, then had to backtrack when people protested. So it was an all-party committee, but still more Liberals than any one other party. The committee came up with proportional as the preferred method, but Trudeau himself preferred ranked ballots (due to the way Canadians have voted for decades, this meant that the worst the Liberals could ever do would be second - iow, they would always be either the government or the Official Opposition).

So... Trudeau did a fast mini-cabinet shuffle, getting rid of the minister who had been in charge of this little exercise, and appointed someone new, whose job would be to stand up in Parliament and announce that the committee hadn't been able to come to a consensus, and therefore no change would be made. And anyway, Trudeau didn't think this was really anything people cared about anymore, and proportional representation would be bad anyway, 'cause just think of all the annoying fringe parties that could end up in the House and hijack sensible policies and legislation and we wouldn't want that, right?

LIAR. And really dishonest. He knows full well that if some fringe party did manage to get a seat somewhere, they wouldn't have any more influence than an independent MP. There's a minimum number of seats required for full party status, that determines everything from where you sit to where your office is, and whether or not you get to ask questions in Question Period and if you can table Private Members' Bills. And these fringe parties are mostly right-wing crackpots, who can't even get along enough to form a bigger party. Even the United Conservative Party (UCP) in my province is a dog's breakfast of hard-right Conservatives, Wild Rose, Reform, and whatever western separatists haven't jumped ship to join the actual separatist party out here (they call themselves the Maverick party).

So Trudeau made a promise and promptly reneged as soon as he had his majority win in 2015. This is a major reason why his next two wins were minority ones. If he survives his next leadership review, I don't think the Liberals will get another majority if he's the leader.

He's unveiling his cabinet this coming week. Should be interesting to see who stays and who the new people are.
 
Unless You care to explain what that First Person to Perspective (FPtP) means I aint gonna be voting nothing ! xD
 
And WTH TLDR means ?! - yeah , I do not know , Till Later Duke AligateR ?!
 
And WTH TLDR means ?! - yeah , I do not know , Till Later Duke AligateR ?!
"TLDR" means "too long; don't read". In other words, you're not expected to, or don't want to, read a long post about whatever the subject is. Sometimes a much shorter, more concise post will follow, for those who don't have time or patience for the long post.

I've also seen it used as an insult, posted after someone else's post. It's a way of saying "I think your post is stupid/boring" (whichever may apply).
 
Is it "Too Long Didn't Read" - Yeah imagine Thomas Jefferson or Benjamin Franklin signing the Declaration of Independence saying : "We were too lazy , it was to long we sing it blindly" that would be something - TLDR xD
 
Is it "Too Long Didn't Read" - Yeah imagine Thomas Jefferson or Benjamin Franklin signing the Declaration of Independence saying : "We were too lazy , it was to long we sing it blindly" that would be something - TLDR xD
That is another possibility. I've used it in that context a few times over on TrekBBS, when someone got snooty with me, carrying on (and on and on and on) about what a terrible person I am for not liking the same Star Trek spinoffs they do, or because I stood up for myself when people were dogpiling over something trivial.
 
"TLDR" means "too long; don't read". In other words, you're not expected to, or don't want to, read a long post about whatever the subject is. Sometimes a much shorter, more concise post will follow, for those who don't have time or patience for the long post.

I've also seen it used as an insult, posted after someone else's post. It's a way of saying "I think your post is stupid/boring" (whichever may apply).

Sorry Your post appeared just before my google search , as You can see from my previous post , now I grasp the meaning - now I am kind of sad .. Now that I do grasp TLDR I still do not know that this lunatic is sayin about FPtP ? What the hell does that means ?!
 
Back in 2015, Justin Trudeau campaigned partially on abolishing the FPTP method, and made a promise that during his mandate (if elected), he would have a committee figure out an alternative, to make the House more representative of how people actually vote.

He lied. He did set up a committee... but initially stacked it with more than 50% Liberals, then had to backtrack when people protested. So it was an all-party committee, but still more Liberals than any one other party. The committee came up with proportional as the preferred method, but Trudeau himself preferred ranked ballots (due to the way Canadians have voted for decades, this meant that the worst the Liberals could ever do would be second - iow, they would always be either the government or the Official Opposition).

So... Trudeau did a fast mini-cabinet shuffle, getting rid of the minister who had been in charge of this little exercise, and appointed someone new, whose job would be to stand up in Parliament and announce that the committee hadn't been able to come to a consensus, and therefore no change would be made. And anyway, Trudeau didn't think this was really anything people cared about anymore, and proportional representation would be bad anyway, 'cause just think of all the annoying fringe parties that could end up in the House and hijack sensible policies and legislation and we wouldn't want that, right?

LIAR. And really dishonest. He knows full well that if some fringe party did manage to get a seat somewhere, they wouldn't have any more influence than an independent MP. There's a minimum number of seats required for full party status, that determines everything from where you sit to where your office is, and whether or not you get to ask questions in Question Period and if you can table Private Members' Bills. And these fringe parties are mostly right-wing crackpots, who can't even get along enough to form a bigger party. Even the United Conservative Party (UCP) in my province is a dog's breakfast of hard-right Conservatives, Wild Rose, Reform, and whatever western separatists haven't jumped ship to join the actual separatist party out here (they call themselves the Maverick party).

So Trudeau made a promise and promptly reneged as soon as he had his majority win in 2015. This is a major reason why his next two wins were minority ones. If he survives his next leadership review, I don't think the Liberals will get another majority if he's the leader.

He's unveiling his cabinet this coming week. Should be interesting to see who stays and who the new people are.
He will likely get away with it. Fading support over three election cycles is fairly typical.

As detailed in those articles we had a PM potentially screw up promising MMP and public outrage vs politicians was bi partisan.
 
Sorry Your post appeared just before my google search , as You can see from my previous post , now I grasp the meaning - now I am kind of sad .. Now that I do grasp TLDR I still do not know that this lunatic is sayin about FPtP ? What the hell does that means ?!

First past the post.

Basically elections like the UK system. Candidate that gets the most votes wins the seat.

Problem is due to vote splitting and voter turn out you can win big with a very small % of the votes.

We didn't have a government win 50% of the votes from 1951 until 2020.

Most American presidents get more votes than an NZ prime minister (proportionally).

In 78 and 81 we had a prime minister win elections with minority of votes.
 
Pardon me for asking is Australia still some king of part of the British ?
 
Okay Now I get it First past the most = the most votes , so than what gives ? You need 2/3 ?
 
Okay Now I get it First past the most = the most votes , so than what gives ? You need 2/3 ?

No % needed you just need the most votes vs anyone else.

One party gets 25% another gets 30% another gets 35% and everyone else gets 15% the party with 35% wins the seat.

If turnout is low eg 50% that party which won the the seat only needs to appeal to 17.5% of the voters.
 
You know what Forgive me Valka and Zardi , my blood-alcochol level just absorbed this - I now know new information !: "First behind a post" and TLDR (which eluded me for some reason) ... God save king George ! xD
 
Australia is a commonwealth nation along with NZ and Canada plus others.

The Queen is their head of state.

Isn't Queen Elizabeth Your Queen ?!
 
Pardon me Good Sir , but I've always wondered how Canada and Australia are faring ? Are they loyal ?
 
Pardon me Good Sir , but I've always wondered how Canada and Australia are faring ? Are they loyal ?

They're still in the Commonwealth.

I imagine once the queen dies questions will be asked.

My guess is Australia will become a republic first.
 
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