Proposal for change in constitution

[akots]

It looks like in order to avoid the out-of-game espionage, we have to change the constitution for example to enable tracking of active citizens. CFC is a very big site and anyone can actually register for this forum with fake or real nickname and thus gain access to our plans and discussions. Just to make sure the JokerDF/UKGuy story is not repeated.

Any suggestions?

1) Minimal post and voting limit with possibility of removal of registration for inactive citizens
2) Mandatory MSN/ICQ/IRC/Yahoo messenger
3) Open non-election polls
4) Periodic re-registration
5) Voluntary pledge that fully acknowledges the rules of the game
6) Valid e-mail with mandatory game forwarding
7) Combination of all of the above
8) Anything else?

 

[Rik Meleet]

You cannot prevent these UKguy / JokerDF situation from happening. All that a person needs to have is the will to spy and it can be done.

1) unsure
2) no
3) yes, I was actually surprised to see those weren't public.
4) yes
5) yes, although this only picks out the members who aren't aware of the rules, thus not the intentional spies.
6) yes

9) IP-check and namelist between the team-captains of all teams in a game, before the registration is approved. (in our case Ankka would be the one to contact the other team-captains with a check-request). IP-info can be obtained by moderators.
10) Minimum amount of posts and minimum membership time. Compare it to the current rules on personal-avatars; 30 days and 30 posts.

 

[Ginger_Ale]

1. Depends on their activity - if they lurk often, I'm fine
2. No.
3. No.
4. Yes, good idea.
5. Yes, but anybody could just say it...
6. Yes.
7. No, not all of the above.
8. Yes:
-IP check, like Rik said
-Can you obtain things like last time a person viewed this forum? ie; if they haven't visited in 1 month and haven't let us know about the absence due to vacation, make them reregister.

10) Minimum amount of posts and minimum membership time. Compare it to the current rules on personal-avatars; 30 days and 30 posts.

What would the post limit do? People could just go to off topic and get to 30 posts in one night. Time is different, but I feel for that 'rule', no need to have the post limit - encourages spamming.

 

[Ankka]

1) Minimal post and voting limit with possibility of removal of registration for inactive citizens - IMHO the inactive citizen deletion is ok. But that should be more like how much they browse the ISDG forum than not posting here IMHO..

2) Mandatory MSN/ICQ/IRC/Yahoo messenger - whatthe...?

3) Open non-election polls - yes.

4) Periodic re-registration - uh... only if they are inactive.

5) Voluntary pledge that fully acknowledges the rules of the game - yes. CDZ used this in their thread for registering

6) Valid e-mail with mandatory game forwarding - ???

 

[Gainy]

I 'left' the ISDG some time ago, as I didn't agree with some actions being taken. So now I just lurk (to see how y'all are getting on ), and occasionaly vote abstain in polls.

Some of your proposals would mean I would no longer be able to do this, which I think is a tad harsh Leave me be (I enjoy watching this game)

 

[Rik Meleet]

What would the post limit do? People could just go to off topic and get to 30 posts in one night. Time is different, but I feel for that 'rule', no need to have the post limit - encourages spamming.

the post limit builds in a refernce-frame which can be checked. It not only protects us from citizens who only want 1 thing; access to our ISDG, it also gives us at least 30 chances to check what sort of person the wannabe is. If he has high quality posts on game-mechanics he is a greater player than someone who only posts "I love Bush" or "I hate Bush" in off-topic. And it shows the character of the person; which helps in case we suspect someone we know who is from a different team.

It also gives the moderators 30 chances to check on IP-addresses, emailaddresses, server info etc, which reduces the chances of missing a potential spy.

Combined with this; the 30 day membership before we even consider allowing the member onto the ISDG completely annihilates the possibility of someone signing up at CFC to spy immediately. They can't; there is a 30 day minimum CFC-membership limit.

I do not like everyone posting in the Signing up thread with posts like "please add XXX" and someone else posting "please add YYY". Instead I prefer to have PM's send to moderators.

 

[Ankka]

I have also come to the conclusion that our registring way just isn't safe.

We need to improve it. To a safer way. Let's make Rik or some other mod check every new user.


@Gainy-ish: I meant that people who don't visit the forums at all or at least don't visit the ISDG forum, should be deleted from the access list. I suppose mods can see when someone has browsed somewhere?

 

[DaveShack]

We need to be careful not to go on IP-address witch hunts, as there are some perfectly valid reasons for multiple ID's posting from the same apparent IP. For example everal people who work behind a proxy might have some posts from the same IP.

That said, what about having each team captain or representative send the userids and list of all IP's associated with each team member to the admins, and then check each new prospective member against the master list?

 

[Ginger_Ale]

How about a new sign up rule: (a sticky, closed thread that says "PM either Matrix, RikMeleet, or Chieftess telling them you would like to join the CFC ISDG..." and then the mod would inform TF, he would do a background check, and add you if you have the 'requirements'?

 

[Emp.Napoleon]

1) Minimal post and voting limit with possibility of removal of registration for inactive citizens
2) Mandatory MSN/ICQ/IRC/Yahoo messenger
3) Open non-election polls
4) Periodic re-registration
5) Voluntary pledge that fully acknowledges the rules of the game
6) Valid e-mail with mandatory game forwarding
7) Combination of all of the above
8) Anything else?

1) I joined the MSDG with only about 10 posts, and I remain active there to this day, so no limit. Besided, then we are disciminating against non-spamers

2) That probaly will not do anything, but who doesn't have AIM, MSN, ICQ, or Yahoo?

3) No, I do not want my vote to be known to everyone all the time. If we had a public poll once a month or so, then that will be ok.

4) No, too messy for those who lurk.

5) Yes

6) Don't you need an e mail to regester at CFC?

 

[akots]

... 6) Don't you need an e mail to regester at CFC?

What was implied that all citizens have to maintain a valid e-mail address to which their save game file will be forwarded. Once the e-mail becomes invalid (the save file returns), the citizen will be asked to provide an alternative e-mail. At leat this will ensure the understanding of the fact that the game probably have been viewed by each citizen be it a loyal one or a mole. Thus, any mole would be found guilty automatically regardless of whether he visited the forum or voted on the polls or not.

 

[Hygro]

3) yes, I was actually surprised to see those weren't public.

When I proposed this, I posted a poll in my poll, which was completely unofficial was CLOSED BY YOU!

It was an unofficial poll with no bearing on the game and you freaked out and closed that poll. I'm sorry, but the hippocrasy is driving me insane.

 

[Ankka]

2) That probaly will not do anything, but who doesn't have AIM, MSN, ICQ, or Yahoo?

I don't. Why should I?

 

[Rik Meleet]

When I proposed this, I posted a poll in my poll, which was completely unofficial was CLOSED BY YOU!

It was an unofficial poll with no bearing on the game and you freaked out and closed that poll. I'm sorry, but the hippocrasy is driving me insane.

Perhaps the closing of the poll was a bit 'over-the-top', I admit that, but I am not displaying hippocrasy. Your poll was only and only about election-polls. I am still against public election polls. And to expand; I am against every public poll which is about people.

I am a strong supporter of public on normal game issues.

The reason is that we are a small community and because of that we should know where we all stand on in-game issues. At the same time it can easily cause a grudge and deterioate relations. I will not allow relations here to deterioate because of public "person" polls.

We've had the same discussion in the DG5 and these are my points to support public voting on all polls, except person-polls. Some aren't valid in this room and some are missing (spying thingy), but the basis remains intact.

* Public polls make it possible for citizens to change their votes as it is
shown what they've voted. 
* Public polls make it possible for anyone to spot illegally cast votes. 
* Public polls mimic Democracy better. All citizens are "congressmen /
 congresswomen" and in RL they vote publicly. 
* Public polls make it easier for non-native english speakers to choose the
correct option; if you know you agree with a certain citizen you can check 
(if you so not completely understand the phrasing of the question) what that
citizen voted on, allowing you to vote for what you want to vote for instead
of just guessing.
* Public votes allow to consider the options better. If you see a highly-skilled
player vote option A and a non-highly-skilled player to vote option B and you
were going to vote option B, you can rethink why option A might be the
better choice. 
* Public polls allow citizens to distinguish between active citizens and less
active citizens, which opens up the possibility to better choose active
deputies, discussion partners, nominations etc.

 

[gert-janl]

Nah, don't agree here.

* Public polls make it possible for citizens to change their votes as it is
shown what they've voted. THINK before you vote, instead of just voting randomly and then starting to think.
* Public polls make it possible for anyone to spot illegally cast votes. Then we will be become suspicious against anyone who post less than the average. Spotting illegal use of our polls should be done by the moderators
* Public polls mimic Democracy better. All citizens are "congressmen /
congresswomen" and in RL they vote publicly. That's why we can post in the discussion thread of the poll what we voted and why. No need to extra note this in a public poll.
* Public polls make it easier for non-native english speakers to choose the
correct option; if you know you agree with a certain citizen you can check
(if you so not completely understand the phrasing of the question) what that
citizen voted on, allowing you to vote for what you want to vote for instead
of just guessing.If you are having problems understanding English, you should reconsider your participation here. I am sorry, but the team won't benefit from these people, and I can't imagine that it would be fun to participate in a game I don't understand eitherway. If the phrasing of a poll isn't clear to you post it, or find the words you don't understand in a dictionary
* Public votes allow to consider the options better. If you see a highly-skilled
player vote option A and a non-highly-skilled player to vote option B and you
were going to vote option B, you can rethink why option A might be the
better choice. I am speaking for myself here, but if I vote, I vote for something I agree on instead of voting for something because an 'veteran' votes for it
* Public polls allow citizens to distinguish between active citizens and less
active citizens, which opens up the possibility to better choose active
deputies, discussion partners, nominations etc.the frequency of posting would better reflect this in my opinion. If you voice your opinion in the forums by posting you usually also vote, but if there are a lot of people (especially in the SPDG) who only vote and don't post.

 

[Goonie]

You can't require citizens to give up their msn or yahoo etc...

I am not giving any of you mine.

 

[Hygro]

Heh, I'm with Goonie.

Rik, my bad. I pretty much agree with you, though I'm falso fine with elections being open.

 

[Provolution]

What about boycotting Brazillian products. No more Brazillian coffee and so on. Let us hurt the Brazillian export interests and harm their wallets

 

[Emp.Napoleon]

I don't. Why should I?

I'll do this for Matrix:

 

[Ankka]

That's great!


But, seriously, I don't think I need one anyway... I had an ICQ one some time ago... but didn't like it. I have no-one to talk to with an instant messenger, so I don't need it.