Public Investigation: People vs. The Judiciary

[naervod]

Donsig has charged Chief Justice Veera Anlai, Judge Advocate Naervod, and Public Defender Shaitan of violating CoS: H.1.A:

7.When discussion has petered out and at least 48 hours have passed the Judge Advocate will post a trial.
A. If the results of the investigation thread are overwhelmingly in favor of the defendant the Judge Advocate will submit the case for Judicial Review and possible dispensation as a "No Merit" case.

Donsig has provided this evidence:

A PI was opened and then summarily dismissed by the Judiciary in violation of the clause listed above.

The PI was opened here
The Public defender called for a no merit dismissal here.
The Judge Advocate called for a no merit dismissal here and also opened the PI thread for discussion here.
The Chief Justice called for a no merit dismissal here.

Please note that the Public Defender called for the no merit dismissal 18 hours and 38 minutes after the PI thread was opened. The Judge advocate called for the no merit dismissal 18 hours and 50 minutes after the PI thread was opened. The Chief Justice called for the no merit dismissal 43 hours and 16 minutes after the PI thread was opened. The 48 hour requirement of the clause was violated.

Had discussion petered out? The Public defender called for the no merit dismissal 12 minutes before the JA officially opened the thread for discussion. The Judge Advocate called for the no merit dismissal at the same time he opened the thread for discussion. The Chief Justice called for the no merit discussion 24 hours and 26 minutes after the thread was officially opened for discussion. This effectively squashed the discussion before it could even begin.

With hardly any discussion due to the Judiciary's actions it can hardly be said that the results of the investigation thread are overwhelmingly in favor of the defendant. In fact, the only two non-Judiciary citizens who posted (donsig and Falcon02) certainly did not post in favor of the defendant.

Finally, in order to legally dismiss the case for having no merit the Judge Advocat must submit the case for Judicial Review. There is no judicial review in the =http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40523]Judiciary thread.

Here is the Judge Advocate's post in the Judiciary thread announcing the closing of the PI.
Here is the post in the PI thread where the JA closed the PI.

This evidence clearly shows that the PI was closed improperly. I ask that the Judiciary conduct these public investigations promptly and according to our Three Books.

PM's will be sent to the two other defendants, one of whom happens to be the Public Defender. This time, the first three posts are reserved for the three defendants as one is also the Public Defender. If none of the defendants have posted within 24 hours of the opening of this thread it is up for discussion.

 

[Shaitan]

1. There is no rule that prevents any citizen or position from saying a case has no merit at any time during the proceedings. It is part of the Public Defender's job to show when a case against their client is completely and totally incorrect.

2. The Public Defender has absolutely no effect on when a PI is opened, closed, peters out, or any other aspect of how a case is run. The Chief Justice only has an effect like this when the Judge Advocate is missing.

3. In 48 hours, the only post was Falcon02 complaining that Octavian should get punished if Falcon02 did.

4. The Judge Advocate didn't close the PI until after donsig had refiled the case with the correct charges.

I believe that these charges have no merit and request that this PI be dropped.

@Naervod & Veera: If either of you need help on your defenses please PM me. I won't be returning to this thread otherwise. I have no time or inclination for it.

 

[Cyc]

As I have been appointed Special Council to this case, I will be re-posting the charges to relieve the Judge Advocate from any improprieties that may arise.

 

[Shaitan]

@Cyc - I demand that the 48 hour reserve period not be started until the entire Special Judging Committee (or whatever it's going to be called) is formed. The accuseds' right to defense council must be met and no trial should proceed without some fill in Chief Justice.

@Special Judging Committee - I respectfully request that the cases against the Judiciary be split into 3 PIs. The Judiciary is comprised of individuals, each different responsibilities. Filing against the Judiciary is the same as filing a case against The Legislature or The Executive Branch. The charge being made applies to only one of the Judicial positions. The blanket attack is foul and unfair and will jeopardize the fairness of the trial. In any case, lumping multiple people's guilt and innocence together will only insure that these proceedings are as confusing as possible.

 

[Cyc]

This is the re-issuing of the charges that donsig has brought against the Judicial Department in their handling of the PI against Octavian X. To begin with, donsig had made a typo on his first PI Request. He had stated that the Judiciary had violated COS:H.1.A, and quoted a different standard COS:H.7.A. Our Judge Advocate is tasked with the mechanics of investigation and trial (Please see COL.E.4.A)(COS:H.4 is also applicable). He somehow forgot to double check his posting of donsig's PI, as the typo was included. This would lead to serious problems down the road that I'm sure would be pointed out by the defense.

BTW, the Chief Justice is responsible for monitoring the investigation threads to keep them on topic and accurate (COL:E.3.D). This was not done by Veera Anlai in regards to the JA's lack of proper procedure.

To more accurately list the charges, COS:H.7.A, which calls for the JA to submit the case for Judicial review and possible dispensation if the investigative thread over-whelmingly supports the innocence of the accused, should not be used, as the defendant admitted his guilt and the only comments posted were against him. So no Judicial Review should have been called to seek a "No Merit" case. If there was cause for this, then the charge would be applied to the JA for not doing this.

But in complete disregard for COS:H.7.A, Chief Justice Veera Anlai somehow called an informal Judicial review and posted its results in the PI thread, again shucking her responsibiliti for keeping the investigative threads accurate (COL:E.3.D). Using these untangible results, she immediately dismissed the case as having "No Merit". She even did this prior to the time allotted for the investigative thread, saying that her ruling would take effect at the end of the 48 hours.

Shaitan has proposed the idea that he is in no way part and parcel to these procedings as he was just requesting that the case be dismissed for the benefit of his client.And this claim would have been true, had the Chief Justice not used his request as his part of her Judicial Review. COL:E.6.E.1 states that all 3 members of the Judicial Branch must agree that the accusation shows "No Merit". And this is what the Chief Justice stated as her reason for dismissing the case. But COL.E.6.E.2 states that specific reasoning for a Judgement of "No Merit" must be provided, and Public Defender Shaitan was the only one to give specific reasoning to the court, and he wasn't even trying to fulfill his portion of the elusive Judicial Review.

All in all, we could pretty much shoot the Three Books with a scatter gun and hit the rules that were broken or ignored by the Judicial Branch in this case. I will return soon with an official charge.

 

[Cyc]

I will agree to your demands and requests, Shaitan. As the first member of the Special Council, I demand that I be involved in the forming of the remainder of the Council.

 

[donsig]

EDIT: Removed after seeing Cyc's post. My reply was rendered irrelevant.

 

[Shaitan]

I object that the Special Prosecutor has posted arguments against the defendants before the actual charges have been presented and before the defense had a chance to answer them or even enter a plea of guilty/not guilty. This is a travesty of justice and has broken several rules.

The incredible thing here is that all of the members of the Judiciary are being accused of breaking the rules regarding handling of PIs and the trial regarding breaking the rules so far has no regard for those very same rules.

 

[Shaitan]

Originally posted by donsig:
I formally request a PI of Chief Justice, Veera Anlai, Judge Advocate, naervod, and Public Defender, Shaitan, for violating section H.1.A of our Code of Standards, which reads:

The Judge Advocate was following your request for a single PI against all three members of the Judiciary. Had you requested PIs instead of a PI I am sure the Judge Advocate would have obliged.

I would also like to remind the Special Prosecutor that in his guise as acting Judge Advocate it is his responsibility to ensure a fair trial. This includes keeping people (including himself) from posting inflammatory remarks and concepts of guilt until the trials are released to public comment.

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by Shaitan
I object that the Special Prosecutor has posted arguments against the defendants before the actual charges have been presented and before the defense had a chance to answer them or even enter a plea of guilty/not guilty. This is a travesty of justice and has broken several rules.

The incredible thing here is that all of the members of the Judiciary are being accused of breaking the rules regarding handling of PIs and the trial regarding breaking the rules so far has no regard for those very same rules.

Well Shaitan, this is where we get when we put technicalities of the law before the intent of the law. You opened this can of worms in your over-zealousness to get acquittals in your role of Public Defender.

I asked for a PI of the Judiciary members and fully expected a seperate PI of each member. I made only one post since the charges and evidence were identical in all three cases. I was surprised that they were lumped into one PI. I was also surprised that there was a call for an outside agency. I had every confidence that the Judiciary would PI it's members in accordance with the law. Now I'm not so sure and I'm as confused as everyone else.

 

[Cyc]

Blow it out your gavel, Shaitan. That post was made after you, AS A MOD, declared that no Special Council could exist! There for your claims are not valid. you can be a Mod here or the PD, make up your mind.

 

[Shaitan]

I made absolutely no declarations as a mod. My statements in the Judiciary thread were as a player and a Public Defender. When I make Modspeak it is either:

Moderator Action: like this
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

or like this.

In any case, if you are going to continue performing as a Special Prosecutor / Acting Judge Advocate you better start acting like one.

 

[Shaitan]

Originally posted by donsig


Well Shaitan, this is where we get when we put technicalities of the law before the intent of the law. You opened this can of worms in your over-zealousness to get acquittals in your role of Public Defender.

I asked for a PI of the Judiciary members and fully expected a seperate PI of each member. I made only one post since the charges and evidence were identical in all three cases. I was surprised that they were lumped into one PI. I was also surprised that there was a call for an outside agency. I had every confidence that the Judiciary would PI it's members in accordance with the law. Now I'm not so sure and I'm as confused as everyone else.

It appears that my zealousness to defend the accused is outmatched by that of the Special Prosecutor to convict them. To the extent that the protections of the accused as specified in our laws are being trampled into the dirt.

 

[Cyc]

Shaitan, the protection for the rights of all citizens of Fanatika have been trampled on by the accused. This is a PI thread. It was opened up erroroneously by the Judiciary. My intent was to correct their error. When I discovered the vastness of the problems caused, I was shook. Especially with your claim that you would not be returning to this thread. Then I read elsewhere that you didn't have the time to defend Fionn McCumhall in his PI (which I don't believe). I figured without your guidance on top of the complete confusion that now flows from the Judicial thread, unaided by the Chief Justice, that the citizens needed to get a good look at what had actually happened in their courts. It darn sure wasn't going to happen any other way. Had the Judicial Branch done their job correctly and had you not told your fellow Mod that his action WOULD NOT be happening, none of this would have taken place. The rights of the accused, you included, have not been tarnished. A summary of the charges is being made, as laid out in the above post. Whether all the charges will be brought against the accused, in separate PI's is yet to be posted. But an explanation of the process was needed to move forward in this trial.

 

[eyrei]

In my opinion, the case against the members of the judiciary lacks any proof of conspiracy, or even knowledge that their actions were incorrect or illegal. If anything, they acted to dismiss a PI that to many does appear trivial, particularly considering the actual state of the nation. In fact, the only conceivable punishment as a result of the PI that was 'improperly' closed, would have been a warning. It seems that in this case, the judiciary decided that an attempt to redirect the focus of the citizens' toward more important tasks was in order, as the crime was neither serious or malicious. Unfortunately, this has only resulted in further attention being devoted to legal matters that to many, (myself included) are most definately secondary, if not tertiary to this game.

Further, I expect all players in this trial, and all citizens to be on their best behavior when addressing the court. I will not tolerate name calling or insults. If you feel the need to make an accusation, you had better have a significant amount of proof.

 

[Goonie]

Technically, they are guilty if that 48 hour rule is a rule. I think they should admit guilt and then we can move on with the game !

 

[Shaitan]

Cyc, what you are doing here is exactly the same as a judge welcoming the jury to a trial and telling them "We'll get started in just a little while but in the mean time I'd like you all to know that the defendants are guilty. Not only are they guilty, but their actions have directly affected all of you and they did it on purpose."

That is why we have procedures set up for how PIs are handled. You cannot circumvent them to squeue things for the prosecution just because you feel the defense has an advantage.

 

[Cyc]

Now that's funny, my friend. The accused messed things up so bad that we had to hire a special council to come in here and straighten up the procedural mess. An explanation of this mess was needed to move on from this point, as there was no direction that could be viably given by the accused. Your attempts to discredit me in my hopes to bring the public on-line with the current situation is distasteful, Shaitan.

Since everything has been put on hold, we still have not heard your response to my demands, or if there will be a special council chosen to proceed in this case. More sly tactics, Shaitan. Keep talking and the term will be over before we can bring you to trial.

 

[Cyc]

@ eyrei. I never claimed there was a conspiracy or that the Judiciary had any knowledge that their actions were criminal . What does it matter if one is ignorant of the law when they commit a crime? Does that make them innocent?

I did not not accuse them of doing all these things on purpose. I just accused them of doing them.

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by Shaitan
Cyc, what you are doing here is exactly the same as a judge welcoming the jury to a trial and telling them "We'll get started in just a little while but in the mean time I'd like you all to know that the defendants are guilty. Not only are they guilty, but their actions have directly affected all of you and they did it on purpose."

That is why we have procedures set up for how PIs are handled. You cannot circumvent them to squeue things for the prosecution just because you feel the defense has an advantage.

Shaitan, I guess it depends on whether Cyc is supposed to be acting as Cheif Justice or Judge Advocate. It also highlights a weakness in our set-up of the Judiciary. You have shown what is expected of the Public Defender: work to get the accused acquitted. The Judge Advocate is supposed to be the prosecutor and is supposed to work towards getting the accused found guilty. These two (the PD and JA) working at cross purposes, and under the guidance of the Chief Justice (acting in the role of judge), are supposed to guarantee a fair trial to the accused but also a fair shake to the people in that we can expect wrong doers to be brought to justice. It should be the CJ who posts the PI thread while the defendant, PD get to present their case as well as the JA and accuser being allowed to present theirs. Then the citizens should be able to have their say based on the cases presented.

Now, if Cyc is acting as JA then he has every right to present the prosecution's case.