Purporse of Citizens?

From the articles I've read here whipping is rarely efficient after size 10. Most commonly it's the cottage cities that lack production that I'm inclined to whip even when above size 10, but I found out that slow building is better in most cases. The big exception being Universities in order to start on Oxford, of course.

And yeah, island cities sometimes benefit from citizens if you're not in slavery, otherwise it's better to build a/several boat/s from somewhere else and just whip away the buildings.
 
If you're in a particular kind of situation where you can't or won't whip for whatever reason, and/or you need every extra hammer (or beaker, in case of Representation) you can get
In those cases you're working a citizen to get 1:hammers: or 1:hammers:3:science:. Which is entirely different than working the citizen to avoid growth.

and/or there simply isn't a combination of tiles you could work that would yield something while avoiding growth
What? You mean if you are working all tiles and have no other specialist slots? Then you have literally no other option but to work a citizen. Which, again, is not working the citizen to avoid growth.
 
What? You mean if you are working all tiles and have no other specialist slots? Then you have literally no other option but to work a citizen. Which, again, is not working the citizen to avoid growth.

Well he could have a city completely surrounded with nothing but corn and fish in every tile. :p
 
With a city like that, he could afford it. Generally, I only get them with the free specialists listed above (Mercantilism and Statue of Liberty).
 
In those cases you're working a citizen to get 1:hammers: or 1:hammers:3:science:. Which is entirely different than working the citizen to avoid growth.


What? You mean if you are working all tiles and have no other specialist slots? Then you have literally no other option but to work a citizen. Which, again, is not working the citizen to avoid growth.

Seems like you've got a mental block about what he was trying to say. Citizens eat food and don't harvest any, so they can be used to consume the excess food produced to stop growth to avoid growing into unhappiness, since the unhappy citizen will also eat food and produce nothing. Better to have a nearly worthless specialist producing something rather than a totally worthless unhappy citizen.
 
I was concidering this on occasion... But most of the time a whip seem to make more sense. Unless for some reason you really can't whip...

When building Maori Statues in a island city you can't use the whip effectively because of the poor citizen-hammer ratio of building wonders. Might as well squeeze out another hammer to put into the Statues.

NPM
 
Another situation for using citizen specialists is for a quick border pop of a new city when you have the Sistene Chapel wonder.

NPM
 
I end up having a citizen when I have the statue of liberty, everybody is running emancipation, and I just captured/built a city with no buildings so it cannot use other specialists. Definitely worthwhile to try to get a specialist-enabling building up ASAP, but probably not with universal suffrage, and at that point slavery isn't much of an option.
 
They are useful for setting up the basic infrastructure in a little ice city with no other hammers. Grow the city to size 2 and then work a citizen until you have 30 hammers and then whip a granary or lighthouse with a 1 pop whip. In some situations that can be more efficient than to continue growing with only one hammer, as without a granary or lighthouse food is wasted.
 
Seems like you've got a mental block about what he was trying to say. Citizens eat food and don't harvest any, so they can be used to consume the excess food produced to stop growth to avoid growing into unhappiness, since the unhappy citizen will also eat food and produce nothing. Better to have a nearly worthless specialist producing something rather than a totally worthless unhappy citizen.

I understand fully. I think it's you and others who are having a mental block... or perhaps I'm not explaining clearly enough. I'll try again using a different approach... maybe this will help get it across:

The scenario you describe is impossible. We are not taking a "unhappy citizen" and changing him to a "nearly worthless specialist" (citizen) because that unhappy citizen does not exist yet. Before that unhappy citizen exists, we are taking a different guy off of a high food tile, such as fish or wheat, and changing THAT guy to something.

The suggestion to change him to a citizen (1:hammers:), frankly, seems quite sub-optimal to me (unless running representation).

Here are some other options:
1) change him to a forest, on a hill if possible (2:food:1:hammers: or 1:food:2:hammers: or 1:food:3:hammers:)
2) keep him working the fish and change 2 or 3 other guys; e.g., change 2 grass forests (2:food:1:hammers:) to plains forests or hills forests (1:food:2:hammers: or 1:food:3:hammers:). Or change grass cottages to plains cottages (which builds your future infrastructure for when you get more happy and can grow your city to work all your cottages at the same time)
3) change him to a mine or workshop (1:food:2:hammers: or 1:food:3:hammers: or 4:hammers:)
4) change him to a real specialist (e.g., 2:hammers:3:gp: or 3:science:3:gp: or 3:gold:3:gp:)

With all those other options, why in the world would we change him to a citizen (1:hammers:)?

(Yes, it does happen that, extremely rarely, we have literally no other choice. e.g., as UncleJJ says in an ice city with literally no other tiles, or as Tephros says with the SoL. The OP advocated intentially running a citizen to avoid growth, which is what I am responding to. Given another option, it's certainly better than running a citizen.)
 
Here's a whacky idea for why the citizen exists: the game designers wanted to have certain buildings enable certain kinds of specialists. Then, they decided that a default option should exist because the old option in Civ3 of just running any number of specialists above size 5 was removed. Thus, the citizen was born.

It's a pretty logical argument, I think.

EDIT: To actually respond to the recent discussion, I agree with Wodan. I never used to build workshops until I realized how badly I needed production and to halt the growth into unhappiness in my high-commerce/high-food cities. Well, that and the new bonuses with Caste System.
 
Another thought, to respond to the Slavery proponents... this "avoid unhappiness" trick is essential to having Celebrations ("We love the King day"). That's true whether you run a citizen vs a workshop, plains forest, or whatever.
 
Often when I REX too much and build the Mids I run Citizens till I get CoL for scientistististististists.
 
I find I can't REX and build the Pyramids at the same time, unless I'm IND and/or stone.
 
I don't like playing the same leaders or the same strategies all the time. I find that boring.
 
I don't like playing the same leaders or the same strategies all the time. I find that boring.

Same actually. (but I just don't even try for culture. Simply kills me.) However, when I am planning to REX than I usually choose Ramsess or another IND to help me with Sci. Really what I am trying to say is I only have 1 strategy when i REX.
 
I don't like playing the same leaders or the same strategies all the time. I find that boring.

I feel the same, but not everyone shares that preference.

As for citizens, there are times, albeit rare, that they are a good bet and mirth and others already showed when. I think they are also just used as placeholders - exactly what would the pop do if you took it off a tile in the early game anyway? The citizens give a nice graphical display of where you can re-allocate your people, and of course serve as place holders if you capture a large city with limited tiles to work (due to culture) and aren't in caste. Although they have rare actual uses, they see use in most games as graphical place holders. That doesn't necessarily mean one should use them for anything else though!
 
Top Bottom