PYL II, Backstabbers!

[Nares]

I can think of 2 or maybe even 3 leaders who could be in her face ASAP no problem.

Mine would be the "maybe even 3."

Spoiler :

I still don't think she can be rushed, given the creative trait and her proclivity on this map for founding religions.

In my own game, I believe she founded at least three of them, but I didn't play as far as Divine Right. Ragnar picked up Buddhism, and I grabbed Confucianism from early Code of Laws.

 

[Bleys]

I just read a pile of reports, and I must say, this game is EXACTLY what I envisioned for this series. Well done guys, very very well done. So cool to see how different Civs play from their starts. I am already looking at the next one, this was a BLAST. Still dindt quite finish mine off yet, but I am planning to, I think I am at the point where I have my choice of VCs, Cuture, Space, or Domination/Conquest.

For the record, my votes for starting location rankings:

Best Starting Location = Vicky. Wow, a wet dream start for a FIN civ. That patch of FPs can be split among 4 cities, and STILL be killer for each. Not only that, but Gems and Gold close by? Unstoppable.

Worst Starting Location = No contest, Qin got hosed bigtime.

Most interesting game = BTook's Cultural Win with Qin. He got handed lemons, and made the best Lemonade on the map!

 

[Bandobras Took]

It's good to know most people think Qin got hosed in the starting position department.

 

[patagonia]

It's good to know most people think Qin got hosed in the starting position department.

Playing as him, I'd definitely agree. I'll get round to playing it out eventually, but right now the Sulieman Immortal University game is a lot more fun.

I think part of it was his combination of traits and location. Cathy would have had a much stronger start in Qin's location, being able to Imp/Cre REX in 3 directions to snag a LOT of land. Of course, defending it might have been tricky with those neighbours...

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Ok then. I thought Louis had a superior starting position also. Really, I'd have preferred Ragnar, Monty, Louis, or Alex in this game because they were on the edges, least likely to be sandwiched. IMO China probably has it the hardest here, since three people can hit you and one of them rexes like crazy. England had some crazy tiles though .

Everyone's game in this will vary wildly due to the nature of the civs and religious alliances. That and troop spam were all that kept me alive.

Man though, was I pissed when Louis culture flipped my FIRST CITY OTHER THAN THE CAPITOL, which also was my bronze and production city . So much culture pressure! At least it was right on my borders for recapture when I had the ability to. Luck is a huge part of staying alive in the middle. Alex took China as a vassal, and Alex was the only friendly civ to me at the end of the game, and the runaway leader X_X.

 

[patagonia]

I said I'd get round to finishing this...eventually.

Qin (Emperor/Normal) - to the not-so-bloody end (1876AD)

Spoiler :

When I left off in 1615AD, I'd eliminated Alex and was embroiled in a bloody war with Ragnar. I'd only taken two of his cities, but had already destroyed two massive SoDs - I was gaining the upper hand, but crippled by WW in most of my cities.

I decided that with Cathy being a monster and a whole era of techs ahead, the best course of action would be to whip units/buildings to get my cities small enough to avoid WW, eliminate Ragnar, (re)grow my population and go for a diplomatic victory. This was eminently possible through the AP, since Vicky had built it, but everyone hated her; Cathy was #1 in pop, but liked me so if I could get ahead of her I stood a good chance of bagging her vote.

Ideally, I wanted to eliminate Ragnar completely to avoid motherland unhappiness in my new acquisitions, but that didn't prove possible as I'd bribed Cathy into war with him (both for the help and the diplo boost) and didn't have anything to offer to call her off. I did get him down to one city though, before making peace in exchange for all of his tech; he capitulated to Cathy the following turn. I hadn't wanted to take him as a vassal myself in case that messed up a future diplo vote.

With the war over, this game finally showed Qin some love:

From then on, it was a question of beelining biology for the food boost. I'd never realised just how much of the tech tree you can skip when going for it until that point. Cathy had switched to FR, but I was able to bribe her back into Hinduism for the +7 boost that gave. Finally the AP vote came up. As anticipated it was Qin v Victoria:

No contest. Then a few turns later...

Thanks Cathy - couldn't have done it without you

This was one violent game:

Spoiler :

But it turned out well in the end:

Spoiler :

I already knew that CKN in large numbers are excellent units, especially if you're able to leverage them early enough (my main motivation for playing as Qin here). That's how I was able to roll-up a much larger Greece with a 3-city empire and still have most of the army left over to take on Ragnar at a significant tech and power disadvantage.

What I learned this game was how powerful a mixed stack of trebs, muskets and elephants can be. I've never used muskets much in the past (I've spammed Oromos as Zara, but upgraded them before they saw any action), preferring maces or grenadiers instead. However, they seem to be a highly versatile unit if you promote them up the combat line, and since it's only your siege that's CR-promoted you don't need as many units in total to perform all the necessary tasks.

Thanks for hosting this game Bleys, it was a lot of fun.

 

[pigswill]

I abandoned my first attempt (Alex, epic emperor) in 800ad, I was dead last in power, 10 techs behind everyone and got dogpiled by Cathy, Vicky and Rags.

I then had another three tries with the same set up, all abandoned before 1ad.

Now (on my fifth attempt) I'm actually keeping up. Only up to 1000ad so plenty of time to get crushed but feeling slightly more positive about my chances.

 

[carl corey]

OK, I'm a little late to the party, I haven't had much time to play lately.

Alex (Emperor/Normal) - pregame thoughts

Spoiler :

I'll want Pyramids, Great Library, or both, to boost my philosophical trait. Although winning Liberalism isn't going to help much unless I'm able to avoid wars, so I'll probably build an Academy and settle the other Great Scientists I'll get, and research the military techs. I guess I could go for Liberalism -> Military Tradition for West Point (if Stone and with first GG -> Medic III). I'll certainly want all the military boosts I can get, meaning early Heroic Epic. I'll try to open it directly through barb-killing.

 

[Bleys]

OK, I'm a little late to the party, I haven't had much time to play lately.

NP, welcome aboard.

Nice name, BTW, LOL, recognize mine? Carls brother, heh.

 

[carl corey]

Of course I do.

 

[carl corey]

Alex (Emperor/Normal) 4000BC-800BC

Spoiler :

Interesting starting position. After much thought I decided to settle on the wine to get the cows and a better long-term city. Finding the second corn tile to the south was a bonus. Although finding the stone and gold tiles to the west, with no food to sustain them, wasn't. Oh well.

I started researching Agriculture - Animal Husbandry, but was lucky enough to get AH from a hut. I also got some gold and a useless map from the other huts. Win some, lose some. I realized pretty quickly that I could be connected only eastwards and westwards, although Qin who's just east of me didn't send any units my way until much later. The interesting part is that we're all on the same continent, with Ragnar close by to the NE. I have no idea how everybody else is positioned, as I decided to fogbust instead of scout. Scouting is for the next round.

I got Bronze Working early enough to realize I should settle a second city on another wine tile cheers, blocking Qin and picking up the pigs, wheat, stone and copper. Cool! Third city got the horses, and I had the time to get another city out with crabs, fur and deer before chopping & whipping the Pyramids. Once they were done I switched back to Tribalism and also switched to Representation. I don't want any slave revolts or whipping, I'll probably just grow. Caste System is a medium term priority.

In other news, Louis is Buddhist and Monty is Hindu. I wonder if they're close.

Here's the view of my land so far:

I'm torn between peaceful settling (well, I'll take the barb city, so not entirely peaceful), or going for Qin... Frankly, I'm inclined to tech my way to a sizable military advantage and have a series of bloody wars, instead of attacking now and facing a wider front later. The current position is pretty easy to defend, and with Pyramids & Philo I'll have a very decent research rate.

 

[Sleepless]

I did say I would play Alex and I have finally got round to playing some turns.

Alex Emp/Normal 4000BC - 1000AD

Spoiler :

Decided to settle in place. Some good news.

I think I popped 2 scouts and some gold from the other huts I found.

More good news.

1F 5H tiles are nice. Also had the +2 health in each city hence the unhappiness in Athens.

After scouting around before my scouts were all eaten. I found some reasonable land to our West to settle and Qin close to the East. The obvious thing is to rush him but with land to settle and Qin with stone I thought I'd let him build some wonders for me.

So did he?

He has also built the Great Wall and Hanging Gardens. Around this time the first war was declared and it was Monte on me. He sent an archer/chariot combo which were quickly dispatched. So rather than attack Qin I bribed him to declare on Monte. With his borders in between me and Monte that leaves me free to rex my bit of land. I have just lost my first unit in the war with Monte after a 1000 years, a phalanx which I had on auto explore.

I've built 2 wonders. The GLh as soon as I realised all my planned cities would be coastal and the GLib. I've used GS to bulb philo/edu, 1 for academy, 1 GM settled and the last was a GArtist which I will use for a GAge.

Current Lands.

The AP is Jewish so currently building temples/monasteries for the hammer bonus.

Tech Situation.

As well as the above I have 1 turn to go on Lib, 4 turns on Gunpowder and 6 turns on Nat. I'm planning on taking Mil Trad from Lib and using Cuirrassiers for attacking. It will be a case of sorry Qin you have been a good friend but this game isn't called backstabbers for nothing.

Current Relations.

Aprt from my war with Monte. One has just started between Vic and Ragnar and that has been the only other one. I wonder how long before another AI gets itchy fingers.

 

[Sleepless]

1000AD - 1665AD The End

Spoiler :

Everything went to plan. Although I was behind in Tech I was first to Lib and took Mil Trad. Built some cuirrassiers and attacked Qin.

This event makes me even more of a backstabber. It does have an effect on later relations as well.

So time for war.

I took his main cities quite easily then he had the pleasure of becoming Alex's first vassal.

I came close to losing to a diplo victory. There was an earlier vote when I voted for Louis for the voted for us + and he only lost by a few votes.

It didn't take me long to get Qin back to friendly so I was able to trade a few techs with him. I was falling behind in the tech race so every trade was important.

I had a quick scout around Cathies lands. Noticed she was quite weak (she was in a war with Vic at the time). So off to war again. I took 2 of her cities before she decided to give in and join Alex's band of merry (wo)men.

Tech situation at this time.

No prizes for guessing where most of my research was coming from.

Where to next? I was undecided between Ragnar or Louis. In the end I decided on Ragnar. So off to war again.

I took 2 of his cities then he wanted to join my vassals as well. Quite pleased to see some of Qin's and Cathies units helping me out in this war.

No point in having a big army sitting around so time to visit Louis.

I took a very small city of his. Cathy took one of his cities as well. Then he was willing to capitulate.

But he had built to many wonders and I wanted them.

Like this.

Mmmm shiny wonders. It also has Versailles in a handy place as well. I took another of his cities and my army was marching on Paris when this happened.

Leading to.

I wasn't far off the domination victory so probably shouldn't have gone for the diplo win. Especially as I needed my revenge on Monte for declaring on me earlier.

Thanks for hosting this game and looking forward to the next one.

 

[carl corey]

I guess there's no point in posting spoilers anymore. Short résumé: I had one phony war with Monty who sent just enough units my way to get a Great General. I then went for Liberalism, took Military Tradition from it, built Taj Mahal with a GE saved from the early stages. Then decided to wait even more, went for Rifling. Once I got Rifles and Cavalry I went on almost non-stop war. Qin capitulated after two cities, Ragnar was more stubborned and I took all his cities except for a few he took from England, Cathy capitulated after three cities, and Monty would have capitulated on the turn of my Domination victory (after two cities). The best troops I had to face were Grenadiers. Meh.

So: Alex, Domination victory, 1695, score: 145170. The starting position definitely helped. The land wasn't great, but at least I didn't have to worry about wars.

Moving on to PYL III.

 

[Quotey]

Oh, looks like I never reported my game on this.

Victoria got longbows after I declared on her, and then Louis declared on me, then Ragnar and Alex dogpiled....

I also finished a second game in which I managed to break the concept of this game. They can't backstab me if it's Always War. I won a conquest victory after Knights, Noble.

 

[carl corey]

You should have chosen "Always Peace"!