Qin too strong in Vanilla?

[Bleys]

I decided to try Qin, since I am now hooked on the MC slingshot and his traits are perfect for it (vanilla, IND/FIN), but whats going on with his UU? This thing is GODDLY! Monty decided to start a war without even bordering on me (he had to go through Mongolia, heh, nice continent I got eh) and I had my Iron being hooked up just as Machinery was finishing, and WHOA, that was about all she wrote. I whipped out 5 or 6 Chus (already had barracks up, since my plan was to take out KAAAAHHHHNNN!), and they just owned the 3 stacks of Jags Monty sent, and they were in the jungle even!

This guy is too strong. I know they changed him quite a bit, but honestly, I think he is totally broken in Vanilla.

 

[ohjames]

People can sing all they want about Praets, but I think China has both of the two best leaders in Vanilla (mining/agri are fantastic starting techs and the UU is incredible, yes.) Chokonus are fantastic all-in-one city-busters, though a combined force of axemen and catapults is technically more efficient.

 

[Bleys]

Oh yeah, the techs, completely forgot those. One drawback, in my mind anyway, of Gandhi (my other fav leader in Vanilla, SPI/IND, for SEs) is Mysticism, I'drather have Ag or Wheel. With Mining and Ag you get near certain worker work, BW out of the gate as a first research, and likely no need to to do another worker tech right away, other than maybe AH. I mean, BW, Wheel, Pottery, and away we go, right? Slap down some cottages and, until you find some stone or marble, or have a pile of fish to catch, you're good to go.

 

[DeaExMachina]

I had a discussion just a few days ago in this forum on "The Endless Power of China". Vanilla, Warlords, BtS, China is a beast. The only real trouble is if you run into a horse heavy opponent, at this stage your Chos could very well be in trouble.

There UB is also meh, but their starting techs and traits are impressive.

 

[Gliese 581]

Yeah Qin used to be one of my favourites. The starting techs for the chinese is still unmatched by any other civ but that's about it now sadly.

 

[BurN]

Hm, I remember trying this with Mao (phil/org). MC from oracle, GE bulb machinery & GP bulb theology. But it didn't quite work out for me, declared on gandhi who had longbows and horse archers. Maybe I shouldn't have waited for theology or maybe I should have waited for construction.

Anyways I do like China though. I love phil/org and mining/agri but I'm not impressed by the UU.

 

[Bleys]

The UU is goddly, man. Way overpowered, especially with the MC slingshot, and I just research Machinery, wipe out a couple neighbors with these CKNs, and thats that, no Construction or Swordsman needed at all. I am going to start playing Emperor with Qin. I am confident I can slingshot MC, chop/whip Forge, and use a lucky GE for Colossus, while building the Mids myself if I have stone (and despite what some people think, obsolete is right about the commonality of stone when playing an IND civ, it seems to be within 10 tiles of me start 9 out of 10 times)