Questions about the Government Plaza

[knighterrant81]

Every game I come a point where I choose where to build the Government Plaza. I have a hard time coming up with the right place and time to integrate it into my playstyle. The +8 Loyalty is the most helpful at the borders of your Empire. However, unless your capital or second city happen to be close to your border with a neighbor, if you want to build it on a border that usually means waiting until turn 100+. The first set of buildings seem to be the most powerful (made moreso by the fact that they come early), but the way the timing works out, their benefits aren't easily utilized.

The Ancestral Hall would be incredible...if you could build it around turn 30 instead of turn 60. Instead, you may build a few more settlers after Political Philosophy, but by that point in my game I've done most of my expanding. Now, I've noticed that it does seem easier to get a mid to late game (read: turn 100+) city to be worthwhile than it did in Vanilla Civ 6, but it is still pretty galling to see all those early cities and think "look at all those builders I could have had!"

The Audience Chamber feels like you're just gimping yourself. I'm not sure extra Housing and Amenities are worth a -2 Loyalty hit and the need to recruit new governors (instead of promoting existing ones) feels limiting.

The Warlord's Throne feels like it is forcing you to go to war all the time, which is progressively more difficult after the Ancient and Classical Eras. Sure, once in awhile, even a SV-focused game will require some mid-game conquest, but unless you're going for a Domination victory, this one seems sketchy.

The Tier 2 and 3 buildings are similarly meh...they can be helpful, but often only for specific strategies. Yeah, the Royal Society helps build Space Race Projects but...by that point the win is already secured and its just a matter of how many times you need to hit 'End Turn'.

So my question is - when and where do you build the Government Plaza, and how do you incorporate it into your overall strategy?

 

[civtrader6]

I've experimented a bit. My game openings always have an early second city (either, scout, builder settler - or, scout settler) and I try to squeeze monu nets as soon as possible.
With this setup - you can get everything up faster - and get the government plaza in either the first or second city - usually as second district with both. Chop with Magnus gets the district out fast - but there's still quite a few turns left to get the first building up.
What particularly interests me is the Ancestral Hall - but as you noted - it comes a bit too late - specifically - assuming a peaceful game - if you totally ignore the plaza - you can push out 4-6 cities easily before turn 50. With a few late settlers coming before the T70 mark. After that it makes little to no sense to plant new cities. So im not sure it's really worth it.
The plaza itself costs 50+150=200 raw production. If you put this production straight in new settlers, with the 50% card - this comes out to 300 production. Does starting with a builder outweights the delay? Don't know yet.

But in one of my test games, I've got the Goddess of the harvest pantheon, and a combination of classical golden age (buy settlers with faith) and Magnus with ancestral hall (200% boost on chops) means that for every chopped settler I could almost buy one. I've settled the third city in the middle of woods (no fresh water).And just kept chopping buying surrounding tiles and builders --- ending with 10 more cities in the next 20 turns.

 

[Victoria]

But in one of my test games, I've got the Goddess of the harvest pantheon, and a combination of classical golden age (buy settlers with faith) and Magnus with ancestral hall (200% boost on chops) means that for every chopped settler I could almost buy one. I've settled the third city in the middle of woods (no fresh water).And just kept chopping buying surrounding tiles and builders --- ending with 10 more cities in the next 20 turns.

In one game it was harvest/Warlord´s for me. I chopped in a few useful things early with Magnus and troop overflow and I bought 10 settlers with faith from my capital city turn after turn. What was noticeable was I did not bother with the 50% settler card so it was like having an extra slot.... and I was playing Gorgo.
I put the district down second and got Warlord´s down about T50 after taking my first 2 cities but with Warlord´s I just kept warring. Later when I had about 5k faith I even bought a settler for another civ to get rid of a -18 which worked because I had met them late.
I agree the thing comes lateish and ancestral is a struggle but Warlord´s is fine, you really need the tier 3 building for an SV and the adjacency of the district is nice.
If you are pushing science the progressively harder wars are not really an issue I have found.

 

[Esperr]

My go to as of R and F had been two to three citys, chop plaza in the third with magnus because capitol is either busy with horse rush or campus. With magnus any city can spit out the plaza into AH in two to three turns. Then you just spam settlers to fill in the gap. I think about taking throne sometimes, but AH just generates so many free hammers with feudalism that its hard to pass up.

The real struggle is oligarchy or republic. Republican legacy really helps with end game happyness.

 

[EpicWestern]

On bad maps (I never reroll and enjoy the challenge) one trick you have is to get both Liang and Magnus early and switch back and forth as needed before you get ancestral hall up. So you get a +1 charge builder or two, cheaper hall production (if you don't have chops), but then by the the time your hall is complete you have the second Magnus card and can get cheaper settlers.

 

[Boyan_Sun]

I think it's a good start for a peaceful play:
1. 3 cities and 3 monuments, direct to Political Philosophy;
2. Liang as 1st governor, she gives 2~3 workers 1 extra charge;
3. Government Plaza at the most forested city, 2nd governor Magnus also here;
4. Magnus chop to finish AH at the same turn when Political Philosophy ready, also AH gives Magnus the title not consume pop. Then with +100% bonus, chop several settlers in this city, all in 1 or 2 turns. If it is a SV, leave at least one tree for Royal Society.