Quick Answers / 'Newbie' Questions

[Bartleby]

I played a 5cc recently where a single cav army (and stack of arty as long as your arm) took down the whole infantry-infested Zulu empire. When I shipped the same units overseas to deal with the Arabic offshore holdings, the army was redlined twice, versus the first two infantry it fought; I disbanded the army and shipped over a tank army, which did the trick. In the meantime, the whole artillery stack was defended by a single infantry, which mercifully wasn't attacked.

 

[splunge the 2nd]

Quick question (actually 3 questions) : Are the shields from forest cutting affected by corruption? If so, is it a good option to build defense in a far-flung empire? Can forestry shields speed wonder production?

 

[EMan]

Quick Answers:
1. No.
2. N/A(?). You can certainly use the 10-shield bonus to help build defensive units.
3. No. The 10-shield bonus will not be given to a city building a Wonder, nor will you be able to change production to a Wonder if you have the Forest-Chop bonus in your Production Box.

Tip: If you want the 10-shield bonus to go to a city within the "Fat Cross" of the Forest tile, that would not ordinarily receive it, change production temporarily in the "designated city" to a Wonder.

 

[EMan]

...note that 1st tier squares that are adjacent to the city square will always belong to the player and cannot be culturally conquered. there is one exception if cities built in cxc form, of course the newer city will always stand on the border...

Not so sure about the exception(?). In the attached save (also, see screenshot), cities 031 & 058 were created before Otto's Folly but have lower culture. In both cases, Otto's Folly takes control of the disputed tiles.

This issue is important to me because in a Histographic Victory, you can increase your score by placing AI cities in tundra areas to control those tiles while you have your city benefitting from "juicy" sea tile scoring. (Viz. Tiles that don't count towards the Domination Limit.)

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/11186/1980_6382_EMan_Maya_Chieftain_Small_C3C_1_22_AD2050.sav

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/11186/CxC_Tile_Control.JPG

 

[Ansar]

Is there a formula I use to see how much a town will grow?

(Like, I wanna see how much food my town will need to grow to size 15.)

 

[Othniel]

This issue is important to me because in a Histographic Victory, you can increase your score by placing AI cities in tundra areas to control those tiles while you have your city benefitting from "juicy" sea tile scoring. (Viz. Tiles that don't count towards the Domination Limit.)

EMan (or someone), can you confirm that sea tiles don't count toward the domination limit? Do ocean tiles also not count?

I had originally thought that at least sea tiles did count, and then became unsure. After that, I had a discussion with a couple other vet players where it was concluded that sea and ocean tiles do count. Now, you're saying they don't count. I'm inclined to believe you, but I'd appreciate confirmation.

It'd be easy to test using CA2 domination tile counts, but I don't feel like taking the time at the moment.

 

[anaxagoras]

EMan (or someone), can you confirm that sea tiles don't count toward the domination limit? Do ocean tiles also not count?

Anything your cultural borders can cover counts toward a domination victory. That is, land, coast, and sea tiles all count; ocean tiles do not. (Notice how your cultural borders never extend to ocean tiles. Freedom of the high seas, and all that.)

 

[Chamnix]

Sea tiles definitely do not count toward the domination limit. There have been several times I was 1 tile away from the domination limit, got a cultural expansion including sea tiles only, and was still 1 tile away from the domination limit. Anaxagoras is right that ocean tiles can never be within your territory so can never count toward anything.

The question that seems to have more confusion attached to it is do sea tiles count toward your territory score? I believe the answer is no, but I have seen several good players come down on both sides of the issue.

 

[Mirc]

Anything your cultural borders can cover counts toward a domination victory. That is, land, coast, and sea tiles all count; ocean tiles do not. (Notice how your cultural borders never extend to ocean tiles. Freedom of the high seas, and all that.)

Neither coast nor sea counts. Just think about it, if they counted, they'd have to count towards the total number too! So to obtain a Domination victory on any map, you'd need 66% of ALL the tiles, including water tiles. So you'd need 6000 tiles for a Standard (100x100) map.

 

[Chamnix]

Coast tiles count.

 

[Mirc]

Are you sure?

Still, my point about needing a lot more tiles if sea and ocean would count stands.

 

[Othniel]

Thanks for the responses!

As I said the last time I discussed this question with other players, knowing that sea tiles don't count will stop my practice of rushing coastal temples to claim more sea tiles for the dom limit.

Interesting that we can't claim ocean tiles. More interesting that I never noticed that... For city production, everything non-coastal was just that to me, non-coastal. I never looked at the actual terrain type.

 

[anaxagoras]

As I said the last time I discussed this question with other players, knowing that sea tiles don't count will stop my practice of rushing coastal temples to claim more sea tiles for the dom limit.

Just to clarify, the definitive (but very old) thread is here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17439&highlight=chiefpaco+domination. I haven't worked through to the end, but I think the summary is that Chamnix is correct: Coast tiles count for domination, sea and ocean do not. However, the original game appears to have counted sea in the area report on the F8 screen. I'm not sure if that is still true in C3C.

Edit: I always thought that it should be the way I said in the first place: If you can claim it, it would count. My wishful thinking aside, that is NOT what happens.

 

[Chamnix]

Are you sure?

Yep .

Still, my point about needing a lot more tiles if sea and ocean would count stands.

Absolutely. And the fact that coastal tiles count accounts for the reason 60% water archipelago map generally will have a much higher domination limit than 60% water pangaea - they may have roughly the same number of land tiles, but the 'pelago has much more coast.

As I said the last time I discussed this question with other players, knowing that sea tiles don't count will stop my practice of rushing coastal temples to claim more sea tiles for the dom limit.

It won't help you reach the domination limit earlier, but if you have citizens to put to work on those sea tiles, it may help your score .

Interesting that we can't claim ocean tiles. More interesting that I never noticed that... For city production, everything non-coastal was just that to me, non-coastal. I never looked at the actual terrain type.

You notice it a lot more in games where you build the Great Lighthouse .

 

[Othniel]

You notice it a lot more in games where you build the Great Lighthouse .

City production, no. Ship movement and trade routes, absolutely.

 

[Ansar]

Is there a formula I use to see how much a town will grow?

(Like, I wanna see how much food my town will need to grow to size 15.)

I guess my question went unnoticed or was just very odd-written.

What I want to know is there a way to know how much food is needed to grow to a certain size? Ex. How much food is needed to get to size 15).

(Yes, I know I wrote it earlier today, but stuff on a previous page usually goes unnoticed.)

 

[Tone]

Ex. How much food is needed to get to size 15).

I feel that I'm not understanding you when I make this reply but so that you don't feel like you're being ignored, here goes anyway...

You need 30 food for 15 citizens. Each person needs two food.

Now tell me what I'm missing in your question.


Edit: or did you mean how much food needs to be collected in total?

 

[Aabraxan]

I think he's asking how much food is needed to grow from size 14 to size 15.

 

[EMan]

...(Yes, I know I wrote it earlier today, but stuff on a previous page usually goes unnoticed.)

Yeah, I know the feeling!

The Food Box requires 20 excess food (toast) per citizen until you reach 7 citizens. Then it's 40 food per citizen until 13. Then it's 60 food per citizen from 13 up. If you have a Granary, halve the numbers. Does that answer your question?

As Chamnix said, Coast tiles count towards the Domination Limit; Sea & Ocean do not. Thus the highest scoring maps are 60% Water Archipelago. Check the HOF Tables for confirmation.

The question that seems to have more confusion attached to it is do sea tiles count toward your territory score? I believe the answer is no, but I have seen several good players come down on both sides of the issue.

I believe they DO count for territory score. IIRC, I ran a test once (after the coastal capital city's 1st expansion) and the sea tiles counted for territory score.........but I'm not 100% sure.

 

[Ansar]

I feel that I'm not understanding you when I make this reply but so that you don't feel like you're being ignored, here goes anyway...

You need 30 food for 15 citizens. Each person needs two food.

Now tell me what I'm missing in your question.


Edit: or did you mean how much food needs to be collected in total?

Yes, I wanted to know how much food I would need for a town to grow to size X. (In my game, I wanted to know how many tiles I should devote to irrigate, and if I could have enough where I wouldn't just have irrigated tiles).

I think he's asking how much food is needed to grow from size 14 to size 15.

No, I just wanted to know how much is needed to grow all the way to size 15.

Yeah, I know the feeling!

Glad to know it's not only me!

The Food Box requires 20 excess food (toast) per citizen until you reach 7 citizens. Then it's 40 food per citizen until 13. Then it's 60 food per citizen from 13 up. If you have a Granary, halve the numbers. Does that answer your question?

I had to think for a moment, but now I get it.

I guess building The Pyramids is a big help.

Off-topic: EMan, seeing as you go to Panama, do you speak Spanish or do you only go to the American area?