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Quick Answers / 'Newbie' Questions

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Civrules, Oct 29, 2005.

  1. BrantleyL1

    BrantleyL1 Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2007
    Messages:
    295
    Location:
    Plano, TX
    Like the other posts said, there are a LOT of "it depends" and probably even more IMHO (or maybe "not so humble"...

    I am not a warmonger... I've tried to get there, but maybe I'm just "chicken" (with apologies to Marty McFly). But here's a starting plan - should be good for a newby. I've yet to really move on an early war that I started. Sometime soon, the stars and resources will align and I will try it.

    I start with this build order:
    Warrior
    Worker
    Settler
    Warrior

    When the settler pops, I send him and the 1st warrior off to settle someplace else. The second warrior will protect the city very quickly, especially if you rush him (a.k.a. "whip").

    I research agriculture (to give the worker something to do) if necessary.

    Mining, then bronze working - I immediately switch to slavery.

    I use the worker to chop trees (usually building farms). Usually that cuts down the time to build the settler & the 2nd warrior.

    With LUCK, when you complete bronze working, there will be copper in your immediate vicinity - so you can mine it and start producing axemen. If you find it "out there", settle near it, build another worker, and connect your two cities (if necessary).

    Start poping out axemen. Whip them, if necessary. Axemen are VERY powerful in the early game. VERY useful against roaming barbarians and barbarian cities - early. Take 2x the enemy defenders and you can almost always take a city. The barbs like to build archers.

    I understand that you can use axemen for an early attack on AIs.

    My problem is that by the time I get enough axemen built, the AIs have gotten a little too strong. The copper mines have not been really good to me. Last game, I had to research for the iron mines and then build axemen.
     
  2. Ginger_Ale

    Ginger_Ale Lurker Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2004
    Messages:
    8,802
    Location:
    Red Sox Nation
    I have another question: from my reading of the war academy, SGs, etc., it seems that farming plains is not ideal (although that is currently what I do). It looks like better options are workshops (for extra production - but wouldn't that make the food output 0, unless you have state property) or watermills if next to a river. What are your thoughts? Is it not worth it to have a 2F/1H tile? What about cottages?

    Is there any rule of thumb about placing farms/cottages/workshops (I know the basics, but perhaps I'm missing something)?
     
  3. Roland Johansen

    Roland Johansen Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2003
    Messages:
    4,292
    Location:
    the Netherlands
    I don't use rules for placing certain types of improvements on certain types of terrain and to be fair, I would consider such rules nonsense.

    When you're using a grassland tile and a plains tile, then it doesn't matter whether you put a farm on the one and a workshop on the other or do it the other way around. The total resource output by those two tiles will be the same. I will often try to get high food tiles and low food tiles, so that I can regulate the growth rate of the city by choosing the right tiles, but that's all.

    In almost every city, you need enough food to grow and usually you'd want to grow quickly up until you reach the happy and health cap and then you will usually want to slow growth. The food can best be acquired by improving food resources or farming river flatland tiles (and adjacent non-river tiles after civil service has been discovered). If you have a city with lots of hills and no good food resources then you will need windmills on the hills to let the city grow. The center city tile provides 2 food without needing a citizen to feed and any other tile provides some food and the citizen working the tile requires 2 food. A specialist just eats 2 food and provides no food.
    When you find a city with an abundance of food, it might be interesting to get a huge food output there to employ many specialists and get a so called great person farm (together with the National Epic for extra great person points and Globe Theater for extra happiness).

    Every city needs some hammer output to get the buildings that the city requires to become prosperous and have healthy happy citizens. Hammers are best created by using hill mines in the early game (and some extra hammers from resources). Later when workshops and watermills become more productive these improvements can also be very attractive for producing hammers especially with the state property civic or the caste system civic (in BTS, it gives +1 hammers to workshops.) If the city doesn't have any hills or has only very few hills and it's still the early game where workshops and watermills have a poor hammer output, then pop rushing with slavery can be a very efficient source of production. In that case, you will want to get a good food production in such a city so you can regularly pop rush.
    Some cities might get some extra focus on hammer output to produce wonders or military units. The Heroic Epic (for extra unit production), West Point (for extra experience) and the Ironworks (for extra hammers) can be used to get some exceptional unit of wonder producing cities when combined with the right cities with the right terrain improvements.

    Commerce production is probably the most important after the early game. In the early game, you'll want to expand a little by growing your cities (with food) and creating new cities (with hammers and food for settlers and workers). But after that crucial starting period, you'll need some commerce to maintain your growing empire and to fuel your research. And research is and always has been very important in civ, so you will want plenty of commerce. Commerce is best produced by cottages, many cottages. It takes time for cottages to grow and become hamlets, villages and towns, so build and use them early so that they are powerful tiles later in the game. Some resources (gold, silver, gems, wine and some others) also produce a healthy amount of commerce, but these tiles are far more rare than the tiles that can get a cottage. Windmills and watermills also provide some commerce in the late game and river tiles are very useful for their extra commerce production.
    Oxford University and Wall Street (in Shrine city) can be used to get an exceptional research or gold output when combined with cities with a huge commerce output.

    Food, hammers and commerce are not equal in value. It is in general far harder to get extra food in a city than extra hammers or commerce and it is in general far harder to get extra hammers in a city than extra commerce. An early farm only provides 1 food, while an early mine provides 2 hammers and a town provides 4 commerce early in the game. When you use slavery to pop rush stuff, you will also get more hammers than the food needed to regrow the city to its original size (when you have a granary). The conversion rate of hammers into gold, science and culture through the build gold/science/culture options is also a lot better than the conversion rate of gold into hammers by the gold rushing ability of the universal suffrage civic.
    Personally I value 2 food = 3 hammers = 6 commerce during most of the game. That's not a perfect valuation, but more a feeling for the value of the bonuses of tile improvements during the game.

    edit: I noticed that I didn't mention the lumbermill. It is a useful terrain improvement, but it comes so late in the game, that I will have cut most of my forests for a one time hammer bonus and a good terrain improvement on the underlying tile. Because bare tundra tiles non-adjacent to fresh water sources cannot get a terrain improvement, I will not clearcut these tiles. The tundra forests will get a lumbermill in the late game. But tundra cities aren't very great cities, so the lumbermill is never an important improvement in my games.

    In BTS, there is also a forest preserve improvement. It adds 1 commerce to a forest tile and slowly spreads the forest in adjacent unimproved tiles. With environmentalism, you'll get an additional 2 commerce bonus. I would combine this with tundra cities to get forest on all the tundra tiles non-adjacent to fresh water sources. A new small wonder gives 1 free specialist for every tile with a forest preserve and I would build this wonder in such a city.

    end edit


    A farmed plains tile is not a great tile to use. It gives your city one extra hammer and that's not a lot. But if the city is low on food and there are no other higher food tiles to use, then it might be the best option.
    A farmed grassland tile + a mined grassland hill tile have a higher hammer output than 2 farmed plains tiles and an equal amount of food (before biology). But you don't always have those tiles and you will have to make do with the tiles that you have.
    If the city has plenty of food from other tiles, then you can place a cottage or a workshop on the plains tile. Workshops are not that great during a large part of the game. Even after the development of guilds (+ 1 hammer to workshops with guilds), a workshop on a grassland tile give a 1 food, 2 hammers tile, while a grassland hill mine produces a 1 food, 3 hammers tile. In BTS, workshops are more useful thanks to the extra hammer they get from the caste system civic.

    So in the end I would like to conclude that you don't improve a tile, you improve a city. Each tile improvement is tied to all the other tile improvements around the city and can't be considered independent of those other improvements.
     
  4. Dubzilla8

    Dubzilla8 Just Right of Center

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2006
    Messages:
    89
    So, I start a new game using the Play Now! button, which I normally dont use. 10 turns or so into the game, a popup window appears announcing my glorious Conquest Victory. Confused, and with a score of 12k and some odd numbers, I realize that my Hall of Fame, which Im very picky about for some reason, is now tainted. I open up the auto save and see that the game decided not to put any opponents into the game. I've never seen this happen before.

    So...anyway can I correct my poor Hall of Fame? I looked through the Program Files, but I don't think I want to mess anything up without being sure about what I'm doing.

    Note to self: Never use Play Now! Always use Custom Game. :crazyeye:
     
  5. Frebee

    Frebee Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2002
    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    Göteborg, Sweden
    Hello!

    Searced the forum for an answer to this but vassal behaviour (BTS) still seems to be generally unpredictable?

    After a game was finished (just a few more turns...) I wanted to look more at the new colony feature and liberated / colonized all but my first 4 cities. As I used to have all resources, I supposed I could get them from my new vassals and still have access. Turns out not.

    A good example is the Netherlands colony, who does not allow me even to demand aluminium. (hence the "refusal means war" can never be applied). I have noticed that you cant demand a resource that you have in order to get more (for example to benefit corporations) but this is my only chance of getting aluminium!

    Why? The main point of colonies is to get access to the must-have resource without the extra effort of maintaining defences, culture etc :-(

    I attached a save file if someone think there might be an explainiation.

    Thanx
     

    Attached Files:

  6. cabert

    cabert Big mouth

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    If you got to play 10 turns, it means you had at least one opponent.
    I guess he didn't manage to settle and the settler got eaten by lions :lol: .

    To get rid of this meaningless item in your HoF, you can delete the replay in the replays folder.
     
  7. zedo_m

    zedo_m Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    Bosnia
    Why are ther those damm problems with download. I em tring to download this civIV bts boklet and it doesnt alow me:mad:
     
  8. Dubzilla8

    Dubzilla8 Just Right of Center

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2006
    Messages:
    89
    Cabert, thanks much. That solves it, I don't think I would have ever thought of that. I went back before and checked the worldbuilder but there is a good chance I didn't see him on the map if he hadn't settled yet. That seems odd that the AI wouldn't have settled by then. It was on Prince mode with a standard map. Is that common for the Play Now! button to put as few as 1 opponent on a map of that size?

    The reason why I tried out the Play Now button is because, when I do custom game, Hannibal is in every single game. Literally, every single game since I bought Warlords. However, after a few tests, I noticed he showed up significantly less with the Play Now button. Maybe 50% of the time. I like the guy a lot but it gets old playing him in every game.
     
  9. Ginger_Ale

    Ginger_Ale Lurker Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2004
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    Location:
    Red Sox Nation
    What do you mean "it doesn't allow me"? Are you not able to start the download? Is the file corrupted?

    Are you talking about this Beyond the Sword PDF file that was just released?
     
  10. Tman65

    Tman65 Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2004
    Messages:
    183
    Location:
    Hunting with the Pack
    CIV Vanilla Question

    I haven't yet been able to determine what good the revised "military advisor" is. No matter what I select (or when it's selected) I only seem to see my units. Am I missing something?
     
  11. ori

    ori Repair Guy Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2005
    Messages:
    16,560
    Location:
    Baden-Württemberg, Germany
    Actually you see all units you know of (if all the leaders are selected) - but more often than not that still are only your own units or the lone Scout that is scouting your territory...
     
  12. LordWeazelNobil

    LordWeazelNobil Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2007
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    Gender:
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    Location:
    Redding, CA -USA
    OK; Go for the Peace Treaty -that's the only way you can get tribute. If you've really got them, they will make an offer -beware: it may be a puny attemp to see how gullible you are. Click "Renegotiate", or whatever; see if you can get them to surrender all (hint: you might want to leave them some petty cash, say $50 to leave them with some dignity -they are more apt to go for it too then).

    This lasts 10 turns. Reinforce your army during this time; redeclare war, wipe out their civ (watch out for any settlers they may have hidden, in galleys, for instance), and increase your area of influence.

    Keep a good watch on other land grabbers waiting to profit from your hard-earned victory, so: have a few settlers of your own waiting to fill in the gaps is sometimes advisable.

    Now you should have a good size army so no one will pose a threat so this is a good time to improve your cities & treat your citizens to the happy lifestyle they can begin to become accustomed to from such a noble leader :king: , you won't regret this :scan: ; however, never neglect your army & protect your veterans! :)
     
  13. kuldiin

    kuldiin Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2003
    Messages:
    133
    When using CTRL-click to select all cities (to make them all queue a building/unit for construction) I have found that once the capital has it, the option of queuing it is no longer there for the newer cities.

    Is there a way around this? Otherwise its a pain building Barracks etc in 20 new cities
     
  14. MusX

    MusX Prince

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2006
    Messages:
    398
    Location:
    Poland
    what means CTD? it's some error but what excatly?
     
  15. GenocideBringer

    GenocideBringer King

    Joined:
    May 29, 2005
    Messages:
    628
    Crash To Desktop
     
  16. Roland Johansen

    Roland Johansen Deity

    Joined:
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    Location:
    the Netherlands
    I never use the multiple selection options (except for mass upgrading) so I don't know if I'll be complete in the various options that you have but I'll list the ones that I know of.

    1) With Shift-click, you can add and remove cities from the list of cities that you have selected. So you can CTRL-click a city to select all the cities on the continent, remove the capital from the list with Shift-click and then select the building(s) that you want to have selected in those remaining cities. You can also use Shift-click to just select a bunch of cities that you want to add a building to and don't add it to the others.
    Weird thing: If you remove and again add the capital to the list of selected cities, then the capital won't block certain buildings to be selected.

    2) You create a building queue in one of your cities and save it with CTRL-1 (or another number from 0-9). Then you select the cities that you want to add this queue to (with CTRL-click, Alt-click or Shift-click) and press 1. Buildings or units that cannot be constructed in one of the cities will be left out.
    Note that this queue is not added to the things that these cities are building, but it completely replaces the existing building queues. I consider that a disadvantage of this method.

    Hope that helps. :)
     
  17. zedo_m

    zedo_m Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2005
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    Location:
    Bosnia
    OK i discovrd what was the problem its my download menager it doesent alow me with him but regulary i downloait witot it. Thanks man
     
  18. bushido

    bushido Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 31, 2003
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    9
    Location:
    Paris
    Thanks for your message LordWeazelNobil.
    Actually I am facing a long war against a bigger Empire. I was low in ranking and I decided to attack the most strongly of my neighborhood.
    I need to offer him a cease of fire or a peace treaty in order to heal and reorganize troops before attacking the center of its empire.

    Do somebody use 'cease of fire' sometimes? What are the pros and cons?
     
  19. ggganz

    ggganz a.k.a. The Scyphozoa

    Joined:
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    Cease Fire="I won't kill you if you won't kill me." You declare peace, but you cannot trade anything for cease fire, and war can be redeclared anytime. AI almost always agrees to cease fire.

    Peace Treaty=Peace MUST last for 10 turns, and you can trade any tech, city, or lump sum for it. These are sometimes hard to get in YOUR favor unless you are clearly winning the war.


    Question: In BtS Espionage Screen, does an above 100% cost mean that you have more or less points against that civ than they do against you? EET EES CONFUZZLEING.
     
  20. NecroAngel

    NecroAngel Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2007
    Messages:
    47
    (1) At the moment the game is a bit overwhelming for me, I just started playing and jumped straight into Beyond the Sword. Should I stick to a simple cottage economy for now until I become more savvy with the game, and then try out a SE or a hybrid? Also, which civilizations are best for a CE?

    (2) I'm confused by how economies work in this game in general. I usually hoard up a large amount of gold that just sits there doing nothing... what's the point in having a large amount of gold? Just to upgrade old units? It seems just the income matters so it can be turned into research.

    (3) Again with the economy - are you supposed to aim to have the economy slider at 0%? I see a lot of people on this forum saying they have it at 0% like it's a good thing.

    Thanks.
     

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