Quick Answers / 'Newbie' Questions

[Snerk]

Ok, newbie questions regarding some warlords stuff.

1, When you're offering the vassal option in trading. The one that always is in red and it reads "We're doing fine on our own". Do you then offer that the AI becomes a vassal of you, or that you become a vassal of them?

2, I dont get the "lead troops as a warlord" option that the warlords great person have. When i tried it it seems that all it did was to give a unit a free promotion. But there is something more right, what is it?

 

[thombran]

Hey everybody since I started getting more and more into mods I have grown a need to merge a few of these great things together...is that possible, to have different mods loaded at the same time?

Sry 4 the major noob question!

 

[Roland Johansen]

2, I dont get the "lead troops as a warlord" option that the warlords great person have. When i tried it it seems that all it did was to give a unit a free promotion. But there is something more right, what is it?

From the Warlords Info Center on this site:

The Great General Unit Updated

The Warlords expansion gets its name from the new type of Great Person it introduces: the Great General. As your units gain combat experience during the game, the game will tally up totals, and once you reach a certain amount, you'll spawn one in your capital city, and the meter starts over. Each new Great General will require more experience than the one before.

You can use Great General to construct a Military Academy (grants +25% bonus to military unit production), or join a city as a Great Military Instructor (gives units built at the city 2 free experience points).

Most importanly, you can turn Great Generals into Warlords to lead your military units in the field. Units that happen to be in the same tile when the Warlord is created gain 20 experience points (divided among units in the stack). When you create a Warlord, you have to join it to another combat unit. The units attached to these Warlords gain free promotions as well as access to five new promotions:

* Combat VI: +25% strength
* Leadership: +50% experience from combat
* Medic III: Heals units in same and adjacent tiles extra 15% damage per turn
* Morale: +1 movement
* Tactics: +30% withdrawal chance

If a Warlord unit is destroyed, he's gone forever.

Hey everybody since I started getting more and more into mods I have grown a need to merge a few of these great things together...is that possible, to have different mods loaded at the same time?

Sry 4 the major noob question!

Yes, mods can be merged, but it's not easy. If mods affect the same game files, then you'll have to manually edit the files to have both modifications of the file in the file. This is not that difficult to do if it is a modification of a xml-file or a python file. However if it is a C++ modification using the software developer kit, then it can be rather difficult. Most mod makers clearly mark the part of a file that they have changed (with comments like --- Start modification --- End modification) and thus it can be doable to merge mods, but it can be a lot of work and you'll have to be precise and not miss a part that has been changed.

 

[Samson]

Yes, mods can be merged, but it's not easy. If mods affect the same game files, then you'll have to manually edit the files to have both modifications of the file in the file. This is not that difficult to do if it is a modification of a xml-file or a python file. However if it is a C++ modification using the software developer kit, then it can be rather difficult. Most mod makers clearly mark the part of a file that they have changed (with comments like --- Start modification --- End modification) and thus it can be doable to merge mods, but it can be a lot of work and you'll have to be precise and not miss a part that has been changed.

I would have thought a tool like xdiff would make it fairly easy, as long as no lines were modified between the original and both mods. There must be a mirco$oft version, though I have not used one. Perhaps Xemacs?

 

[Raisin Bran]

Ok, newbie questions regarding some warlords stuff.

1, When you're offering the vassal option in trading. The one that always is in red and it reads "We're doing fine on our own". Do you then offer that the AI becomes a vassal of you, or that you become a vassal of them?

You ask them to be a vassal to you.

In THIS thread there is a discussion about not being able to be the AI's vassal.

 

[Snerk]

Most importanly, you can turn Great Generals into Warlords to lead your military units in the field. Units that happen to be in the same tile when the Warlord is created gain 20 experience points (divided among units in the stack). When you create a Warlord, you have to join it to another combat unit. The units attached to these Warlords gain free promotions as well as access to five new promotions.

Cheers roland! One thing though,
Do the units on the same tile as the warlords gain 20 pts (divided among units in the stack) just once as you attach the warlord to a unit on that tile? Or do all units that later is on the same tile with a unit with a warlord attach gain 20 pts?
If its the first then it is a bit weak option, or is it still something i dont get?
Sorry for my uselessness but i hate reading the civiclopedia..., enlighten me!

You ask them to be a vassal to you.

In THIS thread there is a discussion about not being able to be the AI's vassal.

I see... thanks!

 

[Roland Johansen]

Cheers roland! One thing though,
Do the units on the same tile as the warlords gain 20 pts (divided among units in the stack) just once as you attach the warlord to a unit on that tile? Or do all units that later is on the same tile with a unit with a warlord attach gain 20 pts?
If its the first then it is a bit weak option, or is it still something i dont get?
Sorry for my uselessness but i hate reading the civiclopedia..., enlighten me!

It is as it reads. The 20 pts of experience are divided among the units that are in the same tile as the warlord when it's created. Nothing more, nothing less. However, the 5 extra promotions that become available to the warlord attached unit can be fun. You can get super healers (Medic III) or units that have a really high chance to retreat from battle (Tactics, together with flanking promotions), etc.
Personally, I would use the warlords mostly to join a city as a Great Military Instructor (gives units built at the city 2 free experience points). If I build 10 units in the city, then I'll also have gained 20 experience. In general I'd rather have 10 strong units than 1 ultra strong unit, because even ultra strong units can die (and they can only kill one unit per turn).
But the special promotions can be interesting.

 

[frankcor]

Personally, I would use the warlords mostly to join a city as a Great Military Instructor (gives units built at the city 2 free experience points). If I build 10 units in the city, then I'll also have gained 20 experience. In general I'd rather have 10 strong units than 1 ultra strong unit, because even ultra strong units can die (and they can only kill one unit per turn).
But the special promotions can be interesting.

That's an excellent strategic analysis. After all, how many super-veteran units have you lost at odds better than 90% Too many, if you're like me.

 

[a4phantom]

That's an excellent strategic analysis. After all, how many super-veteran units have you lost at odds better than 90% Too many, if you're like me.

Agreed, I've thought making a Warlord looked like a flashy but wasteful use of the Great General, unless you're about to launch a crucial offensive or something. I still don't have Warlords, how would you compare using the Super Specialist (+2xp to all units built in the city?) to the special building that, as I understand it, speeds up military production? And how does the second stack with Heroic Epic?

 

[frankcor]

I just bought Warlords today and haven't played it yet. I suspect that it would make good sense to compound the Heroic Epic with a Great General's building would have an impressive impact but haven't worked out the arithmetic on which, if either, would be optimum. It probably depends on how many turns are remaining in your game. If someone else hasn't posted a thread on it by the time I get that far, I might consider working out the arithmetic on it.

 

[karlaug]

Can I choose which of one of my cities become Holy City when i found a religion?

 

[Lord Parkin]

No. However, you can try to influence it through noting various factors. First and foremost, if you only have a single city then the religion will always be founded in that city. Second, if you have more than one city then the religion is almost guaranteed NOT to be founded in your capital (there are heavy odds against it). Also, the FEWER religions a city has, the more likely it is to found the new religion.

So for example, if your capital is the Buddhist holy city; your second city is Buddhist, Jewish, and Hindu; your third city is Jewish and Christian; and your fourth city has no religions yet (perhaps it has only just been founded); then when you found a new religion (say for instance, Taoism), then it will be most likely (though not guaranteed of course) to be founded in your fourth city.

Hope that helps somewhat.

 

[Sparta]

a4phantom and frankcor, FWIW, here is a pretty good discussion of the decision between military acadamies and military instructors, IMHO. I hope my posting the link in this thread is okay.

[Post #45 has a good breakdown of the details, but in essence, the military academy option seems to suffer from the age-old dilemma of diminishing returns (i.e. adding 25% to an already 125% boosted production starts to become much less significant). Military instructors seem to be the favorite option of most in the thread, for reasons largely in line with the sentiments Roland Johansen posted above in this thread.]

 

[Roland Johansen]

Another post about the warlord versus the military academy versus the military instructor.

The military academy gives a 25% production bonus. But since cities and especially major military production centers usually have a production bonus (forge, civics, small wonders), this bonus is in general not a full 25% (an increase of production from 150% to 175% is for instance only 16.67%). Lets assume that the real bonus is only 15% (over the length of the game).

Each military instructor adds 2 experience to the units being built in the city. But since each promotion costs more experience than the previous promotion, each new instructor (in the same city) has diminishing returns. However, it is interesting to add a few instructors to the same city. If you can get the city to produce units with 10+ xp, then you can get city attack III units or other units with 3 promotions fresh out of the city. This will be an immense help in a war. Depending on the civics that you tend to use and the availability of the Pentagon and West Point, this will cost you 0-4 military instructors.
The next promotion is at 17 xp and I think that that takes too many military instructors. I think it is more interesting to have a few cities which produce 10+ xp units than 1 city which produces 17+ xp units.

When you have constructed a city that can produce 10+xp units, it theoretically could be interesting to get some more units out of that city by using a military academy. However, you can also add military instructors to another city to help that city produce 10+ xp units. As the military academy increases the military unit production only by something like 15%, it is more efficient to add a few military instructors to another city to have 2 cities that can produce 10+ xp units. That way, you will get more 10+ xp units.
The production bonus of the military academy is just too small to make it interesting.

(For the mathematically inclined readers:
If you need x instructors to reach a certain desired experience threshold in a city, then 2x instructors will get you 2 such cities. So x extra instructors give you a 100% bonus in producing units with the desired experience level. So the military academy should give a production bonus of at least 1/x*100% to be an interesting alternative.)

The warlord gives you an instant 20 xp which can be fairly interesting, however after having built 10 units in a city with a military instructor, you will have reached the same 20 xp. And of course every unit after the 10-th that is built in that city will be an extra 2 xp above and beyond what is offered by the warlord. You can use the warlord to create superunits with lots of xp, but even superunits can die and can only kill one unit per turn. So in general, I would also use the warlord to spread the 20 xp over a number of units.
The Warlord experience can be useful to help you when you need some strong forces NOW. If you have an inexperienced war machine in the middle of a war, then it can be more useful to get an experienced war machine now than to get experienced units during the rest of the game. That just depends on how much you need the experience at that moment. It's not a good idea to have a war go on and on while you could have used a warlord to decide the war in your favour.
The extra promotion that the warlord offers can also be interesting. For instance, it is interesting to have a medic III unit in your major attack force (to be used only for healing that group, not for any fighting). You don't want to have your major attack force sitting in cities waiting to be healed when it could also be killing units. The medic III unit can decrease the healing time of your major attack force and thus decrease the time it takes to win a war.

I would generally use the Great General as an instructor, sometimes as a warlord when I'm in dire need for high xp units or when I think a certain special promotion would be extremely useful. I would never use them for a military academy.

 

[Lord Parkin]

Thanks for that interesting and detailed analysis Roland. After playing a bit, I think I tend to agree with you there.

 

[frankcor]

Thanks to Sparta and Roland!

 

[a4phantom]

Thank you very much RJ. I thought the Military Academy gave a 50% boost. I should really shut up until I buy Warlords

 

[Gislef]

Question on Vassals and Open Borders:

1) As the master, how do you break off a vassalage relationship? Say, I want to destroy them and get full credit for taking over their lands, rather than the 50% they only count for if they're a Vassal?

2) How do you break an Open Borders agreement? I never seem to get the option to renew or discontinue. They just keep going, and going...

 

[Raisin Bran]

Question on Vassals and Open Borders:

1) As the master, how do you break off a vassalage relationship? Say, I want to destroy them and get full credit for taking over their lands, rather than the 50% they only count for if they're a Vassal?

You can't break off the vassal when you are the master from what I know.

2) How do you break an Open Borders agreemnt? I never seem to get the option to renew or discontinue. They just keep going, and going...

In the diplo screen click on "let's discuss something else"
and "what current deals we have together" it should be there and you cancel it. IIRC

 

[selfexiled]

Total Newb question: what are you guys talking about when you say "shields" ?