Quick Answers / 'Newbie' Questions

[bovinda]

It maybe somewhere obvious...but is there any place (in the game, or otherwise) that explains what all the different land options are (e.g., pangaea with pressed shoreline, fractal, etc.) and what they mean?

 

[a4phantom]

Thanks Roland, as always. Thanks also Pixiejmcc and Lord Parkin for setting me straight on fishing. It occurs to me that I've never tried to work a water tile before Fishing . . .


Qizix, what kind of game are you aiming to play? Do you want to rush out and conquer your neighbors from the start? Inca, Rome, Persia. Do you want to build a huge empire and all the wonders of the world?

 

[Roland Johansen]

I've noticed that there are some who like to visit this quick answers thread regularly. The new War Academy is out now and it contains a selection of the better strategy articles presented by the members of this forum. Some of you might want to take a look at it for some good information about this game.

What civ and civic would you recomend to new players?

Welcome to civfanatics!

This is a very general question and thus cannot be answered except by presenting a whole game strategy. Suffice to say that there are moments that every civic can be interesting and at the start of the game only very few civics are available.
You could look at the War Academy for some articles that might help. There are several articles there that are focussed on the civics part of the game. A quick look at the article 'A guide to civics' in the War Academy makes me think that it could be a good article for you. It's looks quite complete and it's in the introductionary section of the War Academy.

It maybe somewhere obvious...but is there any place (in the game, or otherwise) that explains what all the different land options are (e.g., pangaea with pressed shoreline, fractal, etc.) and what they mean?

There is a Civilization IV Map Scripts Guide written by the creator of the map scripts. That might be a good start. But it's also quite easy to startup a map and then take a look at it in the World Builder (CTRL - W). If you do that a few times, then you get a good idea about the qualities of a certain map type.

 

[Qizix]

Thanks Roland, as always. Thanks also Pixiejmcc and Lord Parkin for setting me straight on fishing. It occurs to me that I've never tried to work a water tile before Fishing . . .


Qizix, what kind of game are you aiming to play? Do you want to rush out and conquer your neighbors from the start? Inca, Rome, Persia. Do you want to build a huge empire and all the wonders of the world?

Im definitly a builder

 

[bovinda]

There is a Civilization IV Map Scripts Guide written by the creator of the map scripts. That might be a good start. But it's also quite easy to startup a map and then take a look at it in the World Builder (CTRL - W). If you do that a few times, then you get a good idea about the qualities of a certain map type.

Thanks Roland. I'll give that a look. I was too short on patience to make a bunch of different maps I guess.

 

[pixiejmcc]

I really think you are wrong here. I take notice of the cost of all improvements (I guess this is what you mean, the hammers required to build something) and it does not change.

Chops (and other worker actions) are speeded up by some things, for example serfdom with you get with feudalism. Is this what you mean? All worker actions are speeded up with an industrial era tech, steam power I think.

Well I actually noticed the changes on different era starts. I assumed it was to do with the different era starts, but someone I kinda trust with this stuff was fairly sure it was a tech. Yeah, i was probably right and shouldn't have listened.

E.g. On a renaissance start, chops definitely take 2 chops BEFORE you implement serfdom. And on an industrial start (and possibly earlier starts), most things (I think most things) are around 10% cheaper.

 

[pixiejmcc]

Collateral damage has changed in WL. Could someone explain exactly how? Where as before each collateral damage battle was carried out in a similar way to a normal battle now, the collateral damage inflicted is standard. E.g. With catapults... an axe will always receive 0.5 (10%/hp) damage. A knight always 0.7 (7hp).

So simply put the amount of damage received goes up as strength increases however the hp lost decreases. Not well explained but i think u will understand .

And whilst on the subject of catapults. If a spear attacks a stack of catapults and elephants, it will hit an elephant. If a spear attacks a stack of archers and catapults it will hit an archer. If a spear attacks a stack of catapults and warriors it hits a warrior. Is there any rule or pattern to these discrepancies? I understand they will be taken out next patch.

This is probably best answered by Guru Roland: I am really struggling with how site from coastal tiles works. I know that you can see one tile beyond a coastal tile. but it seems u can't see an ocean tile beyond a coastal tile. Is that correct?

Oh and I worked out exactly how the sentry promotion works. It is much like a city, it is as though there is a standard unit stading on each tile adjacent to the sentry unit. So, if the sentry unit stands on a flat tile in the middle of a ring of hills he will see a long way.

And finally, I asked earlier about slavery. What i really wanted to know was (and I didn't make this very clear) How does the number of turns having an unhappy face work? It seems to me that if you slave again before the 6 turns elapse you will have another unhappy face for 6 turns plus another 6 minus the number of turns since you last slaved.

For example if u slave on the very next turn, it will last for 6 + (6-1) = 11 turns.

Thank you all for your stream of knowledge in advance.

Since Roland has reappeared (thank God) I will bump this again. No pressure Roland.

 

[Meatbuster]

As far as I know this is how multiple uses of slavery work.

If you use the whip on say, theoretically, turn 1, then again on turn 10...

1. the first slavery unhappiness duration will be on turns 1-10
2. the second slavery unhappiness duration will be on turns 10-19
3. both durations are independent of each other
4. slavery unhappiness stacks

so, you will have...
1 unhappiness from turns 1-9
2 unhappiness on turn 10
1 unhappiness from turns 11-19

 

[Roland Johansen]

Since Roland has reappeared (thank God) I will bump this again. No pressure Roland.

Yeah, right, no pressure at all, 'guru' Roland...

Collateral damage has changed in WL. Could someone explain exactly how? Where as before each collateral damage battle was carried out in a similar way to a normal battle now, the collateral damage inflicted is standard. E.g. With catapults... an axe will always receive 0.5 (10%/hp) damage. A knight always 0.7 (7hp).

So simply put the amount of damage received goes up as strength increases however the hp lost decreases. Not well explained but i think u will understand .

It hasn't changed. A (normal unpromoted) catapult does 14 hps of collateral damage to a warrior. This will decrease its strength from 2 to (1-0.14)*2=1.72 (shown as 1.7 ingame).
This same catapult will do 4 hps of collateral damage to a modern armor. This will decrease its strength from 40 to (1-0.04) * 40 = 38.4

The decrease in strength of the modern armor is less when measured in hitpoints and is thus relatively less. But when measured in the strength value, then it's greater.

And whilst on the subject of catapults. If a spear attacks a stack of catapults and elephants, it will hit an elephant. If a spear attacks a stack of archers and catapults it will hit an archer. If a spear attacks a stack of catapults and warriors it hits a warrior. Is there any rule or pattern to these discrepancies? I understand they will be taken out next patch.

A change in warlords so that artillery type units will defend last in a stack.

This is probably best answered by Guru Roland: I am really struggling with how site from coastal tiles works. I know that you can see one tile beyond a coastal tile. but it seems u can't see an ocean tile beyond a coastal tile. Is that correct?

Oh and I worked out exactly how the sentry promotion works. It is much like a city, it is as though there is a standard unit stading on each tile adjacent to the sentry unit. So, if the sentry unit stands on a flat tile in the middle of a ring of hills he will see a long way.

You asked me about viewing distance once before, quite some time ago. You should be able to see an ocean tile beyond a coastal tile, at least when you're standing on land tiles. If you are looking from a sea unit positioned on a water tile, before the invention of optics (and without the sentry promotion), then you'll only be able to see the adjacent sea tiles. I have copied my answer form post 2869 here:

I didn't know how it worked exactly myself so I did a few minor tests in the world builder.

First I'll have to explain what are the tiles that are 'behind' another tile:

If you're standing in position A, then the Tiles marked B are 'behind' the tile marked W that you can watch. Note that a tile can be 'behind' more than one tile as is the case with the tile marked with a red B in the example below. If it is visible from one of the two W positions, then it is visible (not needed to be visible from both positions).


AWB
AWB
AWB

AB B
AWB
A

Normal units have a viewing distance of 1. All adjacent tiles to the one you're standing in can be seen. Some tiles just beyond the adjacent tiles can also be seen.
-If you are standing on a flatland tile, then you can look behind water tiles. You cannot look behind other flatland tiles, forest, hills or peaks.
-If you are standing on a hill then you can look behind flatland tiles and water tiles. You cannot look behind forests, hills or peaks.
-If you are standing on a peak tile, then you can look behind flatland, water, forest and hill tiles. You cannot look behind forested hills or peaks. (note that you cannot normally be positioned on a peak tile, however this is important to understand the units with viewing distance 2 and 3 explained further on).
-If flatlands, forests, hills or peaks are behind water tiles, then you can see them.
-If hills or peaks are behind an unforested flatland tile and you are positioned on flatlands, hills or peaks (forested or not) then you can see them.
-If peaks are behind forest or unforested hills tile and you are positioned on a hill or a peak (forested or not) then you can see them.

A unit with the sentry promotion can see tiles as if units with viewing distance 1 are standing on its tile and the 8 adjacent tiles (which can be peak tiles!).

After optics, sea units can see one sea tile further than normal (only sea tiles!). A sea unit after optics with the sentry promotion can see tiles as if sea units with optics are placed in all the 8 adjacent tiles.

Your empire has a viewing range of its own without any units present. This range is the same area that you could see if one unit (without the sentry promotion) were present in every tile that has your cultural dominance. After the invention of optics, you can see water tiles as if sea units with optics were present in all water tiles in your cultural area.

That's about it, I think.

And finally, I asked earlier about slavery. What i really wanted to know was (and I didn't make this very clear) How does the number of turns having an unhappy face work? It seems to me that if you slave again before the 6 turns elapse you will have another unhappy face for 6 turns plus another 6 minus the number of turns since you last slaved.

For example if u slave on the very next turn, it will last for 6 + (6-1) = 11 turns.

You're obviously playing at quick speed. Robo Kai was correct in his answer (allthough the 10 turns of unhappiness are from a normal speed game).

In a quick speed game, each whipping causes 6 turns of unhappiness. If you whip and whip again in 2 turns, then you'll have 4 turns with 2 unhappy citizens and another 6 turns with 1 unhappy citizen.

You can always see how much unhappiness you still have to suffer in a city by hovering your mouse button over the whipping button. If the whipping button for instance shows you 20 turns of unhappiness, then this means that if you would whip another citizen, then you'll suffer 20 turns of unhappiness. At this moment, you are still having to suffer 14 (20-6) turns of unhappiness. That results in 2 turns with 3 unhappy citizens, 6 turns with 2 unhappy citizens and 6 turns with 1 unhappy citizen.

 

[Lord Parkin]

A change in warlords so that artillery type units will defend last in a stack.

Which of course would then have the effect of making Trebuchets even MORE powerful...

 

[Roland Johansen]

Which of course would then have the effect of making Trebuchets even MORE powerful...

Trebuchets exist in a time of knights, macemen, longbowmen, crossbowmen, pikeman and catapults. It's hard to think of a stack where they would be the strongest defender (which is the 'normal' rule of who defends the stack).

However, I don't think that I like this overprotectiveness of artillery units. I might even prefer a system where the attacker may pick its target and with a certain probability would get this target (say 25%) and with a certain probability would face the strongest defender (say 75%). Of course, all kinds of unit specific bonusses and unit promotions might alter these chances. That way, the rock-paper-scissors advantage for the defender would not be so great.

But I actually prefer a system of stack combat (true combined arms) which Dale has made available in his combat mod. I still have to try it someday, but it sounds great.

 

[Lord Parkin]

But the "last defender" thing would mean that (for instance), the artillery in a stack which had been attacked and had several highly wounded units (Maces at 2/8, Pikes at 1.5/6, etc) would still be protected from harm, since the attacker would need to remove every single "combat" unit - even if at mortally wounded HP - before they could get a shot at the Trebuchets underneath. And that kind of sounds a bit unfair to me.

 

[a4phantom]

However, I don't think that I like this overprotectiveness of artillery units. I might even prefer a system where the attacker may pick its target and with a certain probability would get this target (say 25%) and with a certain probability would face the strongest defender (say 75%). Of course, all kinds of unit specific bonusses and unit promotions might alter these chances. That way, the rock-paper-scissors advantage for the defender would not be so great.

I was thinking there should be something like that, maybe make it the result of a promo available to cavalry, choppers and armor. The first level promo gives you a 20% chance to hit your target rather than the strongest defender, and the second raises it to 40% or something like that.

 

[Lord Parkin]

I was thinking there should be something like that, maybe make it the result of a promo available to cavalry, choppers and armor. The first level promo gives you a 20% chance to hit your target rather than the strongest defender, and the second raises it to 40% or something like that.

Now there's a great idea - making the "select attack" the ability of a promotion. I really, really like the sound of this.

Although seeing how powerful it would be, I'd advise either making it a "late" promotion (with Combat IV or something), and/or reducing the chances, perhaps 10% for the first promotion and 20% for the second promotion. It is a highly powered ability, after all.

Also, the one unit type which should most definitely not be allowed the promotion should be artillery. That'd just make them insanely powerful, IMHO.

 

[Jughead]

Hi......this may be a dumb question but...... I just downloaded blue marble. Do I just install it and play the game or is there any thing that I have to do so I can see the results of the install. For Example: Mods ..to play you have to load the mod. Is the same with blue marble? I said it was a dumb question...lol..thanks

 

[Raisin Bran]

Hi......this may be a dumb question but...... I just downloaded blue marble. Do I just install it and play the game or is there any thing that I have to do so I can see the results of the install. For Example: Mods ..to play you have to load the mod. Is the same with blue marble? I said it was a dumb question...lol..thanks

If I understand your question correctly, you want to load the blue marble mod!

(if it is a mod cuz I dont know)

Yes a mod must be loaded and the game must restart.

To do so, you need to select Advanced in the menu and choose "load a mod" then you select the mod you want to load (in this case blue marble). The game will tell you that it needs to restart click ok and voila!

if its like me sometime it takes a long time to load a mod so wait, be patient.

 

[a4phantom]

Now there's a great idea - making the "select attack" the ability of a promotion. I really, really like the sound of this.

Although seeing how powerful it would be, I'd advise either making it a "late" promotion (with Combat IV or something), and/or reducing the chances, perhaps 10% for the first promotion and 20% for the second promotion. It is a highly powered ability, after all.

Also, the one unit type which should most definitely not be allowed the promotion should be artillery. That'd just make them insanely powerful, IMHO.

Thanks! And I agree about artillery, even though realitywise it should be the first unit to picks its target. Stupid Civ4 artillery method.

My other idea is to make every unit a potential defender to every attack, but stack the odds in favor of the defender. Just making up the percentages, if I attack you with Cavalry your rifleman has a 50% chance of meeting it, your grenadier 30% and your cannon 20%. Then you could have promos that increase an attacker's chance of hitting a weak target (or maybe just specifically artillery), and maybe another promo that makes the promoted unit more likely to be the defender although that's getting awfully complicated. Of course then you could have chariots playing suicide defense while your tanks roll along unscratched.

 

[a4phantom]

Darn, doubleposted again. Oh well might as well make the best of it: If you start out with fishing and a seafood resource, is it better to build a worker or a work boat first? I always build the workboat figuring that since the city will grow while it's built I can more easily build a worker after. Could someone who crunches the numbers (yes Roland I have you in mind) or has more experience tell me if this is the smart way to do it? It occurs to me that 1. because it doesn't take food the workboat probably takes longer than the worker to build and 2. it only improves one square rather than one every few turns. Does the smartest build order change if you happen to also have corn or cows or another food source on land? I play on Prince if that matters, Warlords, unmodded.

 

[pixiejmcc]

It hasn't changed. A (normal unpromoted) catapult does 14 hps of collateral damage to a warrior. This will decrease its strength from 2 to (1-0.14)*2=1.72 (shown as 1.7 ingame).
This same catapult will do 4 hps of collateral damage to a modern armor. This will decrease its strength from 40 to (1-0.04) * 40 = 38.4

The decrease in strength of the modern armor is less when measured in hitpoints and is thus relatively less. But when measured in the strength value, then it's greater.

Ah. I thought this was a change for some reason. I haven't been able to compare it with vanilla civ. So is there some kind of rule for the amount of collateral damage dealt?

Thank you, once again for all your help Roland. You deserve a medal.

 

[pixiejmcc]

And whilst on the subject of catapults. If a spear attacks a stack of catapults and elephants, it will hit an elephant. If a spear attacks a stack of archers and catapults it will hit an archer. If a spear attacks a stack of catapults and warriors it hits a warrior. Is there any rule or pattern to these discrepancies? I understand they will be taken out next patch.

I think it's not quite as simple as: a stack with siege units, when attacked will be defended by the strongest non-siege unit. Like I mentioned above a warrior won't defend the stack, but I also noticed that injured units won't defend the stack. Whether this is the case all the time I'm not sure.