Quick Answers / 'Newbie' Questions

[TheRealBitter]

Hmm, I had missed your question, so it's good that you ask it again.

Espionage costs espionage points. You get espionage points by converting a fraction of your commerce into espionage points or by constructing some buildings that produce them. If you don't have enough espionage points, then you can't perform the mission.

You can see the available espionage points that you have against another civilisation in the espionage screen which can be entered like the other advisor screens by pressing the related button in the top right of the main world view or by pressing the shortcut key CTRL-e.

I recently answered a similar question by a4phantom (between your 2 posts here) and since that question was more general (How does espionage work?) I also gave some more general information which might be useful to you.

If this doesn't help you, then you should either explain the problem in more detail or post a saved game here. Good luck with solving your mystery.

Thank you very much. It makes total sense now.
I was probably all out of espionage points since I was performing espionage very often.




Bitter.

 

[Lord Parkin]

Thank you very much. It makes total sense now.
I was probably all out of espionage points since I was performing espionage very often.




Bitter.

Either that, or you had moved your spy unit during the turn that you were trying to perform espionage. (You can only perform an espionage mission if your spy has been stationary for the turn.)

 

[Matt4109]

Hey guys.
I just got Civ 4 with both expansion packs. Is there any guide out there that tells you how to play with beyond the sword? I need a good beginners guide that doesn't have wrong info from stuff that has been patched over. Thanks

 

[JujuLautre]

search for Sisiutil's strategy guide for beginners, in the strategy articles section. It's imo the best in its category.
Also, the war academy has tons of good stuff, don't hesitate to search there !

 

[a4phantom]

How is collateral damage apportioned? I think a catapult attack damages about four other units*. How does the game decide which ones? If some of the units in my stricken stack are immune to collateral damage** do they potentially waste a slot of collateral damage, or will four units always be damaged if there are four eligible units and the ineligible units are just skipped over?

I'm wondering because I'm thinking of playing my first game as Ethiopia when BTS comes and I'm wondering at the utility of having several collateral-damage immune Drill IV Oromo Warriors/Rifles/Infantry/Mech. Infantry in my invasion stacks. I don't see these being my most important units compared to the City Raider macemen/rifles/infantry/mech infantry, or even my combat/pinch/formation oromos/rifles/infantry that should do the bulk of defending the stack. I see the Drill IV guys as my insurance against having my entire stack crippled by collateral damage and then overrun. So does their immunity actually reduce the amount of collateral damage taken, or do they just avoid taking it themselves and funnel the damage to non-immune units?

* (I'd check but I don't have the game here yet)
** (some or all siege units, highly Drilled units, already below the health threshold)

 

[Roland Johansen]

How is collateral damage apportioned? I think a catapult attack damages about four other units*. How does the game decide which ones? If some of the units in my stricken stack are immune to collateral damage** do they potentially waste a slot of collateral damage, or will four units always be damaged if there are four eligible units and the ineligible units are just skipped over?

Copied from the combat explained article written by Arathorn:

Spoiler :

Collateral Damage

When attacking stacks, siege units have the built-in capability to damage additional units in the stack besides the one attacked. This is called collateral damage.

Collateral damage is done ONLY by an attacker and only to the stack member(s) that aren’t directly defending. The chosen defender will engage the attacking unit in a regular combat.

Maximum Damage

Gone are the Civ3 days of completely red-lining a unit. Each unit that can do collateral damage has a limit on the amount of damage it can do. These are given in the Units XML file. For catapults, it is 50; cannons 60; artillery 70. Tanks/panzers and modern armor are capped at 60; Cho-Ko-Nu at 60, and (stealth) bombers at 50. That means a catapult can not damage a unit at or below 50 hps. Similarly, an artillery cannot damage any unit at or below 30 hps. Those are hard caps.

Number of Targets

The number of targets is a function of both the attacking unit and the number of potential targets. The number of potential targets is the number of units in the tile which are not defending and who are above the maximum damage threshold.

Example: A catapult is attacking a stack a stack with a 100 hp musket, a 95 hp musket, a 42 hp knight, and a 73 hp axe. The number of potential targets is 2 – the 95 hp musket and the 73 hp axe. The 100 hp musket will defend, so is not a collateral target. The 42 hp knight is below the maximum damage for a catapult.

Each type of unit capable of doing collateral damage is limited in the number of targets it can hit, too. A catapult can only hit 5, a cannon 6, an artillery 7, Cho-Ko-Nu 5, a tank/panzer 5, a modern armor 6, a bomber 5, and a stealth bomber 6. So, even targeting a stack of 12 muskets, a cannon will only hit 7 total (1 directly which defends and 6 with collateral damage).

The number of targets, then, is the lesser of the two numbers – min(potential_targets,max_capable).

Selecting targets

The target of each “round” of collateral damage is selected randomly from the list of potential targets, as defined above. I don’t think the list is updated each round (so that a unit at the maximum damage mark could be selected), but I’m not certain.

Amount of Damage Done

The damage calculation is similar to the damage calculation for regular combat. However, the modifications to each unit’s strength are done differently.

The only potential attacker strength bonus is Barrage -- +20% for Barrage I, another 30% for Barrage II and another 50% for Barrage III. This affects the starting percentage of strength of each unit. The defender gets no strength bonus for anything. Hps are also not used in calculating these relative strengths.

All the regular artillery units (catapults, cannons, artillery, and (stealth) bombers) calculate based off of their full strength. The tanks (tank, panzer, modern armor) calculate based from 0 and the Cho-Ko-Nu starts at 50%.

Example: A Cho-Ko-Nu (str:6) will always have an adjusted strength of 3 (.5 * 6) when figuring collateral damage.

Example: A tank with Barrage I will have an adjusted strength of 5.6 (28 * .2) for collateral damage. With Barrage II, it would be 14 (28 * .5).

Then, the likely damage is half what it would be if the units were fighting directly with those relative strengths. That is, damage = floor(10*(3*A+D)/(3*D+A)). This amount is reduced only if the damage would put the defender past the damage threshold discussed above.

Example: A catapult (with Barrage I and Barrage II) is targeting a longbow with 71 hps in a city on a hill for collateral damage. The catapult’s adjusted strength is 7.5 (5 * 1.5) and the longbow’s adjusted strength is 6 – the hill defense, the city defense, the hps just don’t matter. The catapult does 11 damage to the longbow.

Putting It All Together

Then, the siege attack weapon simply loops through the selection and damage phase the number of times equal to the number of targets. Not every potential target gets hit and some may get hit more than once.

Example: A catapult (with Barrage I) attacks a stack with two full-strength muskets, a knight (with Combat I) at 54 hps, a sword at 38 hps, and an elephant at 83 hps. The number of targets is 3. The first random target is the elephant. Adjusted strengths of 6 and 8 means 8 damage to the elephant. Round 2, the knight is picked. Adjusted strengths of 6 and 10 mean 7 damage, but the limit is 4 because of maximum damage. Round 3, the elephant is selected again, and takes another 8 damage. Before combat between the catapult and the first full-strength musket begins, the stack now has two full-strength muskets, a knight with 50 hps, a sword with 38 hps, and an elephant with 67 hps. Then, the attack between the catapult and the musket would resolve as normally (described above).

The only things that have changed is that siege units themselves have become immune to collateral damage and that they will retreat before they completely kill an enemy unit on the attack.

I'm wondering because I'm thinking of playing my first game as Ethiopia when BTS comes and I'm wondering at the utility of having several collateral-damage immune Drill IV Oromo Warriors/Rifles/Infantry/Mech. Infantry in my invasion stacks. I don't see these being my most important units compared to the City Raider macemen/rifles/infantry/mech infantry, or even my combat/pinch/formation oromos/rifles/infantry that should do the bulk of defending the stack. I see the Drill IV guys as my insurance against having my entire stack crippled by collateral damage and then overrun. So does their immunity actually reduce the amount of collateral damage taken, or do they just avoid taking it themselves and funnel the damage to non-immune units?

* (I'd check but I don't have the game here yet)
** (some or all siege units, highly Drilled units, already below the health threshold)

Drill IV units get only 40% of the normal amount of collateral damage. This makes them highly resistant against collateral damage but not immune.

Since the hit points of a unit will be very important for the actual combat effectiveness of a unit (a 20% reduction in hitpoints will actually reduce combat effectiveness by something like 50%), it is very important to have units in your stack that are close to full health or otherwise your stack could get annihilated. So Drill IV units can protect your stacks very well against a massive collateral damage attack.

The Drill IV units will be randomly picked as the target of collateral damage just like the other units that are eligible to receive collateral damage. It's just that they receive less damage each time they are picked. They are likely to have the most hitpoints after an attack.

Having a good healer (Medic unit, Woodsman III unit or the great Woodsman III + medic I unit or the great Medic III great general unit or the amazing Woodsman III + Medic III unit) is very important for rapid progress too. Luring the major part of the enemy into your lands, destroying them there and only then advancing in their territory is a great way to avoid massive unit loss and huge amounts of war weariness.

 

[a4phantom]

Ah. So having Drill IV units will reduce the overall amount of collateral damage my stack takes from siege attacks, because they'll soak up hits at reduced damage rates. But totally immune units (siege engines) won't reduce the total damage, only funnel it onto other units, probably more critical ones (I care very much that my city raiders and stack defenders are at full health, my siege units do their two main duties ((bombard and suicide attack primarily for collateral damage)) just as well damaged*.

*Ok, almost as well on the second, as they'll hurt the main defender less.

 

[Roland Johansen]

Ah. So having Drill IV units will reduce the overall amount of collateral damage my stack takes from siege attacks, because they'll soak up hits at reduced damage rates. But totally immune units (siege engines) won't reduce the total damage, only funnel it onto other units, probably more critical ones (I care very much that my city raiders and stack defenders are at full health, my siege units do their two main duties ((bombard and suicide attack primarily for collateral damage)) just as well damaged*.

*Ok, almost as well on the second, as they'll hurt the main defender less.

An example (completely ignoring normal damage from attacks by collateral damage attackers, just looking at the collateral damage):

If you have 10 units which sustain 100% collateral damage and 5 immune units, then after several collateral damage attacks the normal units would have 75 hitpoints and the immune units would have 100 hitpoints.

If you have 5 units which sustain 100% collateral damage and 5 drill IV units which sustain 40% collateral damage and 5 immune units, then after the same number of collateral damage attacks, the normal units would have 75 hitpoints, the drill IV units would have 90 hitpoints and the immune units would have 100 hitpoins.

Because collateral damage attackers also do normal damage and the collateral damage is not spread equally among the defenders, the real situation would be a bit different. At some point, the more healthy drill IV units will step up as the prime defender every time and this will result in more direct damage suffered by these units.

Usually, my siege units are also the city raider units and maybe a few extra non-siege city raider units for the extra tough defenders. But after a lot of attacks by city raider siege units, any unit can finish off the defending units. You don't need the city raider promotion to kill a unit at 25 hitpoints.

In BTS, it's harder to get experienced siege units because they will never kill a unit on the attack and thus never get more than 1 xp. This makes it very beneficial to create these units in a city with several settled great generals.

 

[a4phantom]

Thanks RJ. Do airships play an annoying role in land warfare too, or is it only the +100% against ships that make them over powered? What land units are around at the same time as airships? (I don't remember what comes out around Physics and I know it's changed somewhat with BTS).

 

[Roland Johansen]

Thanks RJ. Do airships play an annoying role in land warfare too, or is it only the +100% against ships that make them over powered? What land units are around at the same time as airships? (I don't remember what comes out around Physics and I know it's changed somewhat with BTS).

Airships are a heavily debated topic. Every few days, you'll see a new thread about them. Most players dislike their addition to the game.

Some of the objections include:

1) Airships were historically of very low importance in battle. They were mostly used for reconnaissance and some ineffective bombing of cities.

2) There is no counter for airships until fighters which makes them invulnerable during a certain period in the game.


In game, their importance is limited. It's not that unrealistic that they can actually do some damage to units if you're willing to think a bit more abstract. Knowing the exact layout of the enemy forces while they don't have similar knowledge of your forces is of tactical military importance in combat and could be represented by a combat bonus. Also the fact that something is flying above you and throwing bombs at you (highly inaccurate but still) should have a terror effect on the bombed forces and thus morally weaken them. All of these effects could in game be abstractly represented by some damage. The actual damage that these units do is very low since they only have strength 4 and the units in their era (riflemen, infantry, tanks, destroyers) have a far higher strength. They are also limited to doing 30% damage to any units that they're bombing, further damage is impossible. They also don't do collateral damage like bombers do, so the damage output is fairly low. All together, you need lots of airships to actually do significant damage to a stack of units. And that is one of the reasons that their effect is limited because in BTS, you can only have 4 airplanes in a city before airports.

They are twice as effective against ships (+100% damage) which is probably a representation of their value in naval conflicts where they were used to find the enemy fleet. If they encounter wooden ships, then they can be fairly effective.

If you want to use them offensively, then you should try to combine the airships from 2 or more cities against one enemy stack of units. This may weaken them a bit so that you suffer less casualties when you attack them. If you want to defend against them, then you should make sure that you have enough units in your stack so that their damage is spread over so many units that some units stay healthy after many turns of bombing. Good healers in the stack can also help heal the small amounts of damage done by these units.

Personally, I didn't like the significant period of the game that there is no counter to these units which I changed a bit by a small modification of the game rules.

 

[wonkydonk]

hi,
just started playing BTS and i have a quick question. is there a rule to building docks so i can get access to ships?? i have built a city near the sea but unable to build docks.
Forgot to mention i am Portuguese civilisation

 

[JujuLautre]

you don't need any dock to build ships. Building drydocks gives +4XP on all ships, that's all.

However, you need a direct access from the city center to the sea to be able to build ships/harbor/lighthouse/having access to intercontinental trade routes/etc.

 

[wonkydonk]

k, i have a city close to the coast, but i am unable to build ships harbor or lighthouses, is there a tech i need to resarch?

 

[Lord Parkin]

k, i have a city close to the coast, but i am unable to build ships harbor or lighthouses, is there a tech i need to resarch?

If you have a city center next to a coastal tile (which is not a lake), then you should be able to build Work Boats after the Fishing technology, Galleys and Lighthouses after Sailing, Harbors after Compass, and so on. Looking at the Civilopedia (press F12 while you're in the game) might help you out a bit if you're wanting to know which units and buildings become available with what technologies.

 

[JujuLautre]

well, fishing is enough to build workboats, sailing to build lighthouses and galley, etc... But being "close to the coast" is not enough, you really need to have the city ON the coast. Are you sure that's it?

 

[wonkydonk]

well, fishing is enough to build workboats, sailing to build lighthouses and galley, etc... But being "close to the coast" is not enough, you really need to have the city ON the coast. Are you sure that's it?

that might be it, the city is close to the sea but its not actually on the coast. its about 1 or 2 tiles in.

 

[a4phantom]

that might be it, the city is close to the sea but its not actually on the coast. its about 1 or 2 tiles in.

Then you can't build ships or lighthouses or drydocks (and probably other things I'm forgetting). It's bad for a city that's not on the coast to have several coastal tiles within its fat cross for this reason.

 

[MrCynical]

that might be it, the city is close to the sea but its not actually on the coast. its about 1 or 2 tiles in.

The city must be on the coast (i.e at least one of the eight tiles surrounding the city square must be a water tile that is not a lake) for you to build ships, harbours and so on. Building a city one tile from the coast is generally inadvisable, since it will catch some water tiles in the city radius, but you'll be unable to get the benefits of a coastal location.

 

[a4phantom]

The city must be on the coast (i.e at least one of the eight tiles surrounding the city square must be a water tile that is not a lake) for you to build ships, harbours and so on. Building a city one tile from the coast is generally inadvisable, since it will catch some water tiles in the city radius, but you'll be unable to get the benefits of a coastal location.

I read your Corporations article, Mr. C. Now I'm intrigued to try them even though my favorite civic is State Property. Thank you.

Do corporations ever spontaneously establish themselves in cities (franchise!) or do they only spread through execs?

 

[Gwynnja]

Can anyone tell me what the circumstances need to be for me to view the AI cities via religion? I own the buddhist holy city and i'm spamming missionaries to everyone, but I can't see what's going on after the religion spreads. What's missing?