Lord AJ
The Quartermaster
No that's the only requirement. However I too feel that generally we get leaders more often in the aa. Maybe that's because the turns at that time are shorter so it appears like we're getting leaders faster....
Quick Answers / 'Newbie' Questions
- Thread starter Turner
- Start date
No that's the only requirement. However I too feel that generally we get leaders more often in the aa. Maybe that's because the turns at that time are shorter so it appears like we're getting leaders faster....
Not that i am aware of. It does not suffice to discover a tech, you do need to research it. So techs from huts cannot create SGL, can they? Bonus techs however can create SGL.
templar_x
usually walks his talks
free techs can, popped techs can´t.
My experience has been that SGLs are extremely random. Yes, you wont get them from goody huts.
Apparently Science Civs are given a larger percentage chance of dropping an SGL, but the chnace itself is so small as to not make a huge difference - it's quite possible to go a whole game as the tech leader and not drop one. Normally though, the average is between 1 and 3 per game. Occasionally you'll get a game where they seem to spew out, but it's very unusual.
They are no more common in any age, but sometimes you get the feeling that some techs produce them better than others (such as end-of-line Techs and Science Techs such as Literature and Education). The game also appears to be more generous with them if you are behind in the game generally (but still able to get unique Techs), similar to how popping Settlers from huts can be related to your global status. For example, you might get more playing a Single City game with a Tech lead than a huge empire with a Tech lead.
Most of my points are conjecture, some are from previous discussions on the topic, it's mostly just my personal experience.
Apparently Science Civs are given a larger percentage chance of dropping an SGL, but the chnace itself is so small as to not make a huge difference - it's quite possible to go a whole game as the tech leader and not drop one. Normally though, the average is between 1 and 3 per game. Occasionally you'll get a game where they seem to spew out, but it's very unusual.
They are no more common in any age, but sometimes you get the feeling that some techs produce them better than others (such as end-of-line Techs and Science Techs such as Literature and Education). The game also appears to be more generous with them if you are behind in the game generally (but still able to get unique Techs), similar to how popping Settlers from huts can be related to your global status. For example, you might get more playing a Single City game with a Tech lead than a huge empire with a Tech lead.
Most of my points are conjecture, some are from previous discussions on the topic, it's mostly just my personal experience.
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
My understanding was always that you have a 3% chance of getting an SGL when you are first to a new tech, which is increased to 5% if you are Scientific. There are no other considerations.
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
I am quite sure that I read this when Conquests first came out and that I have never heard anyone say anything else except, like you, as a matter of opinion. This being said, my only source is my memory. Failing as it may be, I trust it more than anyone who tries to read patterns in the occurrences of rare events.
But my conjectures aren't based solely on attempting to interpret the nature of random. The game does have 'balance' concepts, such as the Settler spawning from huts, but had this not been 'common knowledge' then one could say "bah, you're just imagining patterns, Settlers spawn on a purely random basis.
It reminds me of the controversy of Wonders from Civ2 where people would often complain about how the AI often completes their Wonder 1 turn before you do. There were many people who shunned the possibility that it was a game-balance issue, but the devs did finally come out and admit that the AI would be given Wonders for free if it felt it would improve game balance.
Since Civ III is quite obsessed with the concept of balance - via all kinds of tweaks, such as the hard peak of Tech research being 4 turns and the leading Tech'er has to pay more per-Tech than people who discover the same tech once everyone else has discovered it - then applying a conjecture via the concept of balance to SGLs isn't just some paranoid madness based on a couple of games of extreme results.
It reminds me of the controversy of Wonders from Civ2 where people would often complain about how the AI often completes their Wonder 1 turn before you do. There were many people who shunned the possibility that it was a game-balance issue, but the devs did finally come out and admit that the AI would be given Wonders for free if it felt it would improve game balance.
Since Civ III is quite obsessed with the concept of balance - via all kinds of tweaks, such as the hard peak of Tech research being 4 turns and the leading Tech'er has to pay more per-Tech than people who discover the same tech once everyone else has discovered it - then applying a conjecture via the concept of balance to SGLs isn't just some paranoid madness based on a couple of games of extreme results.
Arjav Jain
The CIVVER
I had a question to ask, can I submit a GOTM made by me for other players, if yes where
Use some spies and check whether the place has a factory or coal plant, just in case.
What if you get two new techs on the same turn from completing a Wonder?
Lord AJ
The Quartermaster
Yes, that could be a possibility because I did gift them to the IA. I'll check.
templar_x
usually walks his talks
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
I don't know but I would be astonished to find that it is anything other than 3(5)% for each one.
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
They were fairly open about it. Given the state of computer technology at the time, it was almost unavoidable. In Civ 1, the AI never built wonders at all. They were always simply given to them.never heard of that before.
how and where did the admit that?
t_x
tjs282
Stone \ Cold / Fish
Then you have a 3% (or 5% if SCI) probability of popping an SGL for each of those techs. IIRC (something I read on here, possibly something Lanzelot told me) there is actually a bug that allows you to have 2 (or more) SGLs at once, so in theory you could actually get one SGL each for both new techs, but the probability of that happening would be very low: 0.03 x 0.03 = 0.0009 => 0.09%, or odds of about 1111-to-1 (would you bet on that horse?).
There is another minor consideration that no-one's mentioned yet (CAVEAT: also very much IIRC): if (for some reason) you have an unused MGL on the books, that will block SGL generation (although not vice versa -- you can pop an MGL when you have a stored SGL). But this is only a minor issue because there's no real point in hoarding an MGL when you could instead use it to create an (empty) Army or rush-build an expensive improvement.
tjs282
Stone \ Cold / Fish
Ah yes... and all too frequently, the AICivs were given a Wonder, 1T before I handbuilt it. So it sounds like the devs reused that Wonder-full section of code in Civ2 as well.
(I could only be reasonably sure of getting a CivDOS Wonder if -- after having researched Trade -- I stockpiled Caravans, and then threw them into the Wonder-build all at once...)
Bartleby
Remembers laughter
It actually is vice versa; and SGL will prevent you from getting a MGL but an MGL doesn't prevent you from getting an SGL.
Indeed. Getting a SGL does not depend on having a leader. You can stockpile multible SGL, but you can only get a MGL when not having a leaders. This means you are best off to use any MGL immediately in order to not prevent yourself from getting another MGL. I have dalayed wars because i had no proper use for my stockpiled SGL. 
Yeah, I'd say the single biggest flaw in the Civ III catalogue of irritants would be the failure of the SGL "Improve general science output" option. It's infuriatingly "Why, why, why, why, why couldn't someone have sorted this pre-release".
Take my current game, for example. I have one of those cities that's a Wetlands+River+Corn+rolling Hills and is currently producing 100 corruption-free shields per turn. I'm knocking out Industrial Age Wonders in 8 or 9 turns (depending on Pollution). I have this SGL, but I'm not 'wasting' it on an 8 turn structure.
However, during this time I was conquering the other half of my continent and had reams of Elite Cavalry but no MGL and my economy is a bit slowed due to Unit-production and War Weariness, about 8 turns per Tech.
I'm wanting to keep the SGL for the biggies in the Modern Age, just to feel I get some worth from it, when, what would be really useful is either Military Leaders or a couple of turns less per Tech.
The combo of the Science glitch plus the MGL barrier is really head-bangingly eye-rolling.
Take my current game, for example. I have one of those cities that's a Wetlands+River+Corn+rolling Hills and is currently producing 100 corruption-free shields per turn. I'm knocking out Industrial Age Wonders in 8 or 9 turns (depending on Pollution). I have this SGL, but I'm not 'wasting' it on an 8 turn structure.
However, during this time I was conquering the other half of my continent and had reams of Elite Cavalry but no MGL and my economy is a bit slowed due to Unit-production and War Weariness, about 8 turns per Tech.
I'm wanting to keep the SGL for the biggies in the Modern Age, just to feel I get some worth from it, when, what would be really useful is either Military Leaders or a couple of turns less per Tech.
The combo of the Science glitch plus the MGL barrier is really head-bangingly eye-rolling.
