In other circumstances I'd've gone straight for Smith's because the extra gold (usually 50 per turn) can pay for any adjustment in moods, but right now I'm flying at 100% expenditure so maybe the Cathedral would help me balance moods. I think I'll sleep on it.
Quick Answers / 'Newbie' Questions
- Thread starter Turner
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saintnoelle
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2023
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- 2
I currently have a mutual protection pack with England, and they have one with the Celts. What happens if I start a war with the Celts? Does England have to choose which side to support, or does nothing happen? Thanks!
Literally the next turn the Celts declared war on me, and England declared war on them. Maybe if a civ is allied with two other civs in a war, whichever of those declared war first loses the support with the allied civ?
Literally the next turn the Celts declared war on me, and England declared war on them. Maybe if a civ is allied with two other civs in a war, whichever of those declared war first loses the support with the allied civ?
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tjs282
Stone \ Cold / Fish
What map size/type? What intended VC?
Both GWs have global effects, so it basically comes down to which you think would save you more money? Reducing the LUX%-slider, or paying for all the Harbours, Markets, (Banks, StockExes,) CommDocks, and Airports that you have (or may want to build later)?
Or a more radical option: why not take both Bachs and Smiths, and let the AI have Magellans? MagVoy only adds M+1 to your ships, which I've never found to be very useful in the epic-game (especially on smaller maps and/or those with 60% water, where channels are usually narrow(er) enough that +1 move won't usually shorten the turns needed to make the crossing).
MPPs are triggered when one of the MPP-partners is attacked within their own borders (including cross-border kidnapping of unprotected Workers, bombardments, or Zone-of-Control strikes on any passing MPP-protected unit).
I believe an MPP will also be triggered if a declared enemy simply ends their turn with units inside one of the MPP-partners' borders, even without any attacks yet having been made.
If Brennus declared on you by sneak-attacking, then yes, that would have triggered your MPP with the English, causing Liz to declare on Brennus in response.
But even if Brennus hadn't co-operated with your plan to go to war with him, then provided your border-towns were garrisoned sufficiently to prevent their loss (or even to encourage his units to bypass them in favour of softer targets further inside your borders), you could also have 'safely' declared on him, and let the Celtic units attack you over the interturn, to accomplish the same result.
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Bit bit bit:
The map is a huge-size archipelago with 70% water.
I'm not sure about the calculations, but Bach and Smith are not available. Magellan's Journey costs 400 shields, while any of the other two cost 600. Magellan's was on a pre-build forever and also my next-door neighbours are Carthage, England and Portugal so the extra movement point will help even things (we're all trying to settle a hitherto unpopulated island that has some iron mines).
Portugal is already paying me some nifty gpt while it finishes warring against its continental partner, Germany, but then it'll take on England (half its cities on my continent, half on Portugal's) and things will get tough then, because its next land border will be in the island I just mentioned.
For some freak reason both wonders are due to be completed next turn (to be played whenever life next allows it) so one city has 390 shields and the other has 580-something shields. Since everybody else is building wonders and some have already been completed, the only choice to be made is really which of the two 600-shield wonders to complete: Bach's or Smith's.
(all this until England or Carthage suddenly but inevitably betray me, of course)
vorlon_mi
Emperor
I love getting Bach's and I love getting Smith's. But an archipelago map means that you will have lots of harbors. I would go for Smith's, personally.
r16
not deity
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2008
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- 11,217
you are mutually allied with A . You want to fight B . B is also mutually allied to A . Get B to attack you and A will declare on B . Miss the chance and hit B ? Even in the sense that you forgot a ship in the waters of B ? A will declare on you . Had such moments of joy when the Mordorians parked a ship within range of my catapults inside their waters . And forgot it there for 10 turns or more . So that its allies would declare on me after one glorious fleeting moment of happiness of hitting it .
WeirdoJoker
King
Thinking of short-circuiting my Domination goal with attempting a Diplomatic victory. I'm a few turns away from having the UN (if someone doesn't short-circuit me). Best way is to get a military alliance of everyone against my main competitor the turn before?
I eliminated England, Japan and Korea; Iroquois eliminated the Zulu; only France, India and Iroquois left besides me (China). None of them is particularly happy with me - France is cautious and India is annoyed. Do I need to improve relations in advance, or should I wait the 5 turns (UN done in 6)?
ETA: Gave it a shot & can't get the MA with either France or India. I have the UN in 1T, but it looks like I have to go for Domination, which should be doable at this point.
I eliminated England, Japan and Korea; Iroquois eliminated the Zulu; only France, India and Iroquois left besides me (China). None of them is particularly happy with me - France is cautious and India is annoyed. Do I need to improve relations in advance, or should I wait the 5 turns (UN done in 6)?
ETA: Gave it a shot & can't get the MA with either France or India. I have the UN in 1T, but it looks like I have to go for Domination, which should be doable at this point.
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Herbert George
Chieftain
I agree I'd much rather have Adam Smith, it will pay for an increase in the luxuries slider, as well as making markets (and their luxury good multiplier) more economically viable in more far flung cities.
tjs282
Stone \ Cold / Fish
As far as I can tell, the AI will only sign an MA, after a war has already started.
So if you weren't already fighting Hiawatha, then no, Joanie and Gandhi wouldn't have joined you, no matter what you offered them.
WeirdoJoker
King
Ok, that worked. Backed up a turn & got a MA w/ Joan, and an Embargo from Gandhi (who wouldn't do an MA). Then, as part of the war, Hiawatha threw a couple tanks into India (probably just to get through to some of my cities on the other side of India), and that was enough for Gandhi to vote for me. It didn't hurt that I gifted him Fission in advance to change his attitude from "Annoyed" to "Polite."
tjs282
Stone \ Cold / Fish
Unless Hiawatha actually declared on Gandhi (or vice versa), your tech-gift almost certainly had (much) more to do with his voting for you than the Iroquois Tank-incursion did.
Attitude is the only thing that counts when trying to persuade an AI-Leader to vote for you: they have to be Polite/Gracious towards you, and also better disposed towards you than towards your electoral opponent (hence why starting a world war dogpile against your opponent(s) is such a ch-easy tactic for a Diplo-win).
Paying for the commercial improvements makes them pay for themselves even faster, but the thing is, I am already at the stage at which I am getting a crapton of money *and* IIRC four luxuries from overseas tech buyers so I'm maxing out my tech slider as a result.
Yes, that is essential for getting the MA. And for making best use of it in terms of AI attitude, you need to destroy (up to) 10 units of your opponent. Pillaging tiles may also work instead. So declaring war 2 or 3 turns ahead seems sound.
AI attitude
I spent a few weeks with an unpatched version of PTW and no internet access (to dowload the patch), so I decided to spend some of that time testing AI attitudes. This test was with the 1.01 version of PTW, so there might be a possibility that some of this was changed in a patch, but most likely...
forums.civfanatics.com
Hey, justanick. Do you know how the AI actually reacts to broken alliances?
In any case, as it turns out, I was one further turn away from the Portuguese refusing to renew a 2-luxury deal unless I gave them half my treasury, so the 2 extra faces from JS Bach's wonderful music are a must now.
I decided to finish JS Bach's Cathedral as originally intended anyway, simply because everybody was building it and I wanted to see the AI choke on it (only one other civ was building the Trading Co.).
In any case, as it turns out, I was one further turn away from the Portuguese refusing to renew a 2-luxury deal unless I gave them half my treasury, so the 2 extra faces from JS Bach's wonderful music are a must now.
Usually i aim at not finding out.
vorlon_mi
Emperor
My experience has been: broken trade reputation, with the disappointed tribe usually furious with you.
I have not noticed a significant effect on the attitude of other tribes towards me, if I break an alliance by making peace too early. The broken trade rep, making it harder to sell lux for gold-per-turn, is more painful.
Late in the game, I have to resort to buying a missing luxury by selling a tech.
I have not noticed a significant effect on the attitude of other tribes towards me, if I break an alliance by making peace too early. The broken trade rep, making it harder to sell lux for gold-per-turn, is more painful.
Late in the game, I have to resort to buying a missing luxury by selling a tech.
If you break your trade rep you can still do GPT for lux deals, can't you? You cannot do tech for GPT deals.
In my experience, they are more unwilling to sign another alliance in the future, e.g. demand more payment or even up to they point where they are no longer sign any more alliances with you.
WeirdoJoker
King
What was weird was I couldn't talk him into a MA with the tech thrown in, but when I did the gift first, then he went from Annoyed to Polite. And then still wouldn't agree to a MA, but did agree readily to the Embargo.
This was with 2 turns left for the UN (with no competition on this one ... last time I sell Electronics too early, though, I can say that much), so maybe next time I go for a Diplo win I'll give myself another turn or two to set things up just right.
LordofDread
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2022
- Messages
- 109
Yep that seems really strange. Especially since the French did agree to an MA, I would assume this doesn't have to do with broken Trade Reps - otherwise the French shouldn't have agreed to it.
But then - if Hiawatha declared war on Joan earlier in the game, or if Hiawatha broke an MA with the French against anyone else, this could be different again.
I tend to keep all my Rep's perfectly clean during the last few years of playing, so I don't really know. Your game shows again why, it becomes really complicated, and when you really count on an MA for fighting a stronger AI and you then can't sign it after declaring war, you might get ripped of the planet. And probably can't even pay gpt for peace
Side note on selling techs: I never ever sell Electricity. Not for any price. Once they have Electricity, they all research like "instantly" for Replacable Parts, and you want them to have Infantry and faster workers as late as possible anyway. The AI's tend to research Electricity only after they got the Nationalism, 2 Gov's, Steam, Industrialization, Coorporation and Medicine. So not selling them Electricity slows them considerably down on defense, production&development (2x worker speed) and the lower branch of the tech tree. Plus they should't be able to contest you for Hoover - unless on high diff.
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