Quick Questions , Quick Answers

[dmeyster]

What i exactly miss to build mine in taiga? + peat bog
I need canal systems tech?

 

[raxo2222]

What i exactly miss to build mine in taiga? + peat bog
I need canal systems tech?

Probably.
Looks like tooltip needs feature-remover tech too.

 

[bismarck24]

They should not be giving more than they cost, so no it's not an exploit at all. No more than any other investment that can help where its needed most.

Since they don't vanish after using them for a trade mission you can use the same units again and again without investing anything. So you do get a lot more out of them than they cost, don't you?

 

[bismarck24]

Okay even with Unlimited how can you build "hundreds of these Food/production caravans in a turn from 1 city much less from a 1/2 dozen. Now if you have 25 cities by the time these units come into play then that is another story. And a solid indicator the player is playing on a way too low Difficulty level. You get these unit available at the back end of the Preh Era.

And the limit is 5 each when Unlimited Option is not used. Sooo if you can build hundreds in this time frame you are playing on the longest GS and a lower level of Difficulty than you should be on imhpo. BUT players play, for the most part and of course there are exceptions, on levels and speeds they are "comfortable on".

Sorry, I did not mean I'm building hundreds of them each round. I just mean I could be using hundreds of them each round (admittedly I do not have unit limits on due to Thunderbrd's recommendations). Since they don't disappear after using them, they pile up after a while. Even with unit limits on, it feels like an exploit. I'm playing on Deity.

And just so I don't forget: I love your mod, it's astounding what you all have achieved. In situations like these I simply set personal unit limits for myself, so the fun is all there. Thank you!

 

[bismarck24]

1. There was a way of automating them but it used the missionary/corporate executive automate functions. This meant they did not avoid danger and would get killed or captured any time they moved into wild lands. The automation was removed because of complaints about the loss of the units.
2. This is one reason why they should be limited even with unlimited units on.

Thank you for the answer!

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Since they don't vanish after using them for a trade mission you can use the same units again and again without investing anything. So you do get a lot more out of them than they cost, don't you?

They used to disappear after trade missions. I am not sure when it was changed. At one point we were examining the feasibility of requiring having caravans move back and forth between cities to have the trade actually happen but I don't think that went anywhere due to the huge amount of micromanagement as there is no automate for that sort of thing.

 

[VCrakeV]

Trade units aren't suppose to disappear after use anymore? Or is this just with unlimited units? I have limited (5) trade units, and they always disappear after being used. I have a fairly recent version of the svn, from earlier this month (I believe).

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Trade units aren't suppose to disappear after use anymore? Or is this just with unlimited units? I have limited (5) trade units, and they always disappear after being used. I have a fairly recent version of the svn, from earlier this month (I believe).

It may be that they were so successful that they get a promotion and live to trade again. Similar to the way that entertainers may not disappear after "entertaining a city" = "culture bomb" but get a promotion instead.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Since they don't disappear after using them, they pile up after a while.

@bismarck24 ,
You are talking about a caravan unit I'm not familiar with then. The Food and Production "caravan/merchant" is the one I Thought you were mentioning.

Screenshots below of the 2 I mentioned. Which unit are you talking about please?

 

[Thunderbrd]

I am not aware of any mod being intentionally made to keep merchants from being one use so that sounds like a serious bug to me. Eventually, they should not be one use but what they deliver is coming from production taken from another place and that has not been implemented at all yet.

 

[dmeyster]

Any ideas for nightmare diff to compete with ai on techs? except constantly conquering ai's cities for techs (still not enough, on battlefield ai suck so far though)

 

[bismarck24]

@bismarck24 ,
You are talking about a caravan unit I'm not familiar with then. The Food and Production "caravan/merchant" is the one I Thought you were mentioning.

Screenshots below of the 2 I mentioned. Which unit are you talking about please?

I'm using the "Trade Caravan", which is the upgraded version of the "Early Merchant" in your second screenshot. I'm also using the "Meione Caravan" and the "Arjos", which are both cultural units. They work the same way.

 

[bismarck24]

I am not aware of any mod being intentionally made to keep merchants from being one use so that sounds like a serious bug to me. Eventually, they should not be one use but what they deliver is coming from production taken from another place and that has not been implemented at all yet.

Actually to my memory trade units haven't disappeared after use for quite a while. And your Player Guide states that this was intentional. In the chapter "New in v38" it says:

Quote
Merchants
You'll also find that Merchant units are no longer destroyed when they perform trade missions but are instead sent back to their city of origin so they can be reused. This makes them a bit more valuable for this use than they once were. Use your criminals to sack opponent merchants if they leave themselves open for attack!
Quote end

I'm playing with v40.1

 

[JosEPh_II]

Actually to my memory trade units haven't disappeared after use for quite a while. And your Player Guide states that this was intentional. In the chapter "New in v38" it says:

Quote
Merchants
You'll also find that Merchant units are no longer destroyed when they perform trade missions but are instead sent back to their city of origin so they can be reused. This makes them a bit more valuable for this use than they once were. Use your criminals to sack opponent merchants if they leave themselves open for attack!
Quote end

I'm playing with v40.1

Thanks for the reply.

I would suggest you repost this in the Bug thread under the appropriate sticky thread. That way the coders can see it easier. And what was posted for v38 Is Long Out of Date now. But you may have caught something here that does need updating or at least seriously looked into.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Actually to my memory trade units haven't disappeared after use for quite a while. And your Player Guide states that this was intentional. In the chapter "New in v38" it says:

Quote
Merchants
You'll also find that Merchant units are no longer destroyed when they perform trade missions but are instead sent back to their city of origin so they can be reused. This makes them a bit more valuable for this use than they once were. Use your criminals to sack opponent merchants if they leave themselves open for attack!
Quote end

I'm playing with v40.1

This is for gold missions, yes. Not production missions. Criminals can do this too so if you make them one shots with gold missions, clearly the much better choice for that is going to be with criminals and I didn't want them to be the ones that are 'obviously' better.

That said, perhaps there should be a severe penalty to the gold income from internal trading (if the city is your own) which would mean you would really need to be able to brave taking the merchants to rival civs to do this.

 

[bismarck24]

This is for gold missions, yes. Not production missions. Criminals can do this too so if you make them one shots with gold missions, clearly the much better choice for that is going to be with criminals and I didn't want them to be the ones that are 'obviously' better.

That said, perhaps there should be a severe penalty to the gold income from internal trading (if the city is your own) which would mean you would really need to be able to brave taking the merchants to rival civs to do this.

Aah yes, I was talking about gold missions to neighbouring rival cities all along. Sorry, I did not make myself clear obviously. If I build 50 trade caravans, send them to a close rival city the gold income generated seems way too much and way too easy to get, doesn't it to you? If the foreign city is close the danger of losing the trade caravan is very low.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Aah yes, I was talking about gold missions to neighbouring rival cities all along. Sorry, I did not make myself clear obviously. If I build 50 trade caravans, send them to a close rival city the gold income generated seems way too much and way too easy to get, doesn't it to you? If the foreign city is close the danger of losing the trade caravan is very low.

I don't know. It's been diminished a number of times. It seems to me that it has to be worth even doing. But the balance on it is always a trick.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Aah yes, I was talking about gold missions to neighbouring rival cities all along. Sorry, I did not make myself clear obviously. If I build 50 trade caravans, send them to a close rival city the gold income generated seems way too much and way too easy to get, doesn't it to you? If the foreign city is close the danger of losing the trade caravan is very low.

Well this is something you really should expect when playing with Unlimited On.

It's a trade off from not playing with Limited. This is also what ruined the Arsonist. Players using Unlimited and then abusing them when they were Clearly and emphatically stated they were meant to be used with Limits when designed.

But we do give you Options and Choices. Play tough (Limits On) or play relaxed (Unlimited). When you played relaxed (Unlimited) you will get exploits like this. If we nerf them for Unlimited usage then they become worthless for those that choose to play with Limits On. Can't have it both ways you know. You did choose the easy path my friend.

 

[bismarck24]

I don't know. It's been diminished a number of times. It seems to me that it has to be worth even doing. But the balance on it is always a trick.

I totally get that. I think you did an excellent job in balancing out this "monster" of a game.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Well this is something you really should expect when playing with Unlimited On.

It's a trade off from not playing with Limited. This is also what ruined the Arsonist. Players using Unlimited and then abusing them when they were Clearly and emphatically stated they were meant to be used with Limits when designed.

But we do give you Options and Choices. Play tough (Limits On) or play relaxed (Unlimited). When you played relaxed (Unlimited) you will get exploits like this. If we nerf them for Unlimited usage then they become worthless for those that choose to play with Limits On. Can't have it both ways you know. You did choose the easy path my friend.

They will eventually be a must to be unlimited so I've been needing to find what IS balanced if the unit IS unlimited and not single use. Maybe it's too much now that it gives and again, eventually it needs to be given a reduction for being a same player city most likely. I suppose it will be possible to keep them limited but not with equipment mods and supply lines intending to rely on them as constant ongoing shipping use units.