Quo's Combined Tweaks

Quo's Combined Tweaks v7.0.19 BETA

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Hey guys, I'm looking for some balance feedback about the following specific items:

  • Melee boats: The mod gives them a +12 bonus versus cities. Are you feeling this is too much? I did just have an incident with Norway where I declared on him and, in a shocking move with a single boat, he managed to take my population 2 coastal city in about 2 turns. Granted, it was his unique unit that did it, and my Archer nearby did easily hurt the boat. I didn't have a navy to fight back and paid the price. Still, this element has been hard for me to evaluate.
  • Anti-Calvary: Is the -1 movement ability working out okay? I personally have rarely gotten to use it too often in real play, and it seems well balanced to me, but I am not 100% sure. I welcome thoughts.

Thanks :)
 
isau said:
Hey guys, I'm looking for some balance feedback about the following specific items:

  • Melee boats: The mod gives them a +12 bonus versus cities. Are you feeling this is too much? I did just have an incident with Norway where I declared on him and, in a shocking move with a single boat, he managed to take my population 2 coastal city in about 2 turns. Granted, it was his unique unit that did it, and my Archer nearby did easily hurt the boat. I didn't have a navy to fight back and paid the price. Still, this element has been hard for me to evaluate.
  • Anti-Calvary: Is the -1 movement ability working out okay? I personally have rarely gotten to use it too often in real play, and it seems well balanced to me, but I am not 100% sure. I welcome thoughts.

Thanks :)
Click to expand...

As for the second point, I do not remember, I passed the match and removed the saves, I can not check.
The bonus to boats gives a good advantage against cities, earlier in the middle of the game to bombard fortified cities, especially the capital, was a long occupation. However, the problem is that the AI has not yet learned how to build and use ships normally. (I'm playing with the AI + mod).
At the moment, in the modification it is problematic to estimate the bonus, because of the Aztec friendship bonus, it appears everywhere, wherever possible.
In addition, I play with the Smoother Difficulty mod, where units are also given a bonus to combat power. I use a line with the code from Combat and Stacking Overhaul. The code removes the combat power from AI and with standard difficulties.
Spoiler Mod :
Combat bonus is less required if AI can put twice more units in an area
DELETE FROM Modifiers WHERE ModifierId = 'HIGH_DIFFICULTY_COMBAT_SCALING';

You can also think about including this encoded line in the file MyOptions, perhaps this function will be useful for some players and for testing the bonus to the combat power in your modification.
 
isau said:
Hey guys, I'm looking for some balance feedback about the following specific items:

  • Melee boats: The mod gives them a +12 bonus versus cities. Are you feeling this is too much? I did just have an incident with Norway where I declared on him and, in a shocking move with a single boat, he managed to take my population 2 coastal city in about 2 turns. Granted, it was his unique unit that did it, and my Archer nearby did easily hurt the boat. I didn't have a navy to fight back and paid the price. Still, this element has been hard for me to evaluate.
  • Anti-Calvary: Is the -1 movement ability working out okay? I personally have rarely gotten to use it too often in real play, and it seems well balanced to me, but I am not 100% sure. I welcome thoughts.

Thanks :)
Click to expand...

I noticed that taking cities with boats felt really easy, didn't know they had been buffed that much, so maybe scale that back a bit Maybe +5-7. Don't know that I have had enough experience with the movement penalty to make a judgment either way.
 
I'm still a little confused by the damage scalar versus cities. Melee boats seem to have a really easy or really hard time with cities. For now though, Harald is really powerful if he can find cities on the coast. Which IMO he should be, just maybe not so much that a single boat can grab a city in two turns. :D

I'll probably lower the bonus to around +6 and see if that tames things.
 
Hey folks who had issues with the Aztec bonus still applying after no longer being friends with them, can you tell me a little more about the issue? I'm trying to recreate the issue but can't seem to. The bonus is there while I am friends with the Aztecs and gone when the friendship expires. Are there special circumstances where the bonus stays longer than expected, like Aztecs getting wiped out, etc?
 
isau updated Quo's Combined Tweaks with a new update entry:

Quo Combined Tweaks v3.10.1 BETA

This is a minor balance and bug fix build.

Changes Made

Main
  • Melee ships now receive +8 damage versus City Centers (down from +12).
  • Closed a redundancy in the Siege promotion "Expert Crew." This promotion normally gives Siege Units the ability to move and shoot on the same turn, but all Siege units start with this ability in this mod, making the promotion useless. Changed to "This unit has +1 Movement."

Changes to Pericles (Greece)
  • ...
Click to expand...

Read the rest of this update entry...
 
Hi all, first of all, my compliments for the mod !

I'm just trying this mod with these other mod:

- Expanded Economy
- MOAR units

and the game freeze every time i conquest a city or i have some interaction with other nations

Furthermore, it seems that all nations had a strong focus on cavalry, perhaps becase wall will be build only with stable . Perhaps i'm wrong but i would like to share my impressions

Many thanks
 
civdasv said:
Hi all, first of all, my compliments for the mod !

I'm just trying this mod with these other mod:

- Expanded Economy
- MOAR units

and the game freeze every time i conquest a city or i have some interaction with other nations

Furthermore, it seems that all nations had a strong focus on cavalry, perhaps becase wall will be build only with stable . Perhaps i'm wrong but i would like to share my impressions

Many thanks
Click to expand...


Hiya. MOAR Units should work fine. I don't know about Expanded Economy. It could be a mod conflict or some other issue. I just had a game that lasted 9 hours or so and didn't have any freezes or crashes, even though I was doing a lot of conquering.
 
Expanded Economy appears to be a pretty significant overhaul, I suspect there is some sort of conflict there.

Did you ever determine what caused my crash in the previous beta? I assume it has to be some conflict or another, but I can't for the life of me figure it out.
 
Guynemer said:
Expanded Economy appears to be a pretty significant overhaul, I suspect there is some sort of conflict there.

Did you ever determine what caused my crash in the previous beta? I assume it has to be some conflict or another, but I can't for the life of me figure it out.
Click to expand...


Sorry, no, I couldn't figure it out. I made a couple of tweaks in the most recent release to close some possible issues. Sorry about that.
 
isau said:
Sorry, no, I couldn't figure it out. I made a couple of tweaks in the most recent release to close some possible issues. Sorry about that.
Click to expand...

****, what the hell do you have to apologize for? You made this mod freely available, you don't owe me squat. Thanks for all your hard work, gonna try the new beta right now.
 
Finished the game. Got randomized into Pericles (again), which was fine, as I wanted to see how the new bonus felt. And I am happy to report that it didn't feel overpowered at all, just a nice bonus. However, with his envoy bonus at peace, so long as you keep a big enough military to discourage AI from picking a fight they'll lose, and you build the Apadana, you can and will suzerain every CS in the game. The two inspirations per age is not game breaking, but the bonuses to every district from being the suzerain to 12 CS is very much so. Especially if Antananarivo is in the game, lordy loo. By the time I won, I think I was getting +100% culture from Antananarivo thanks to all the Great People. I think turning the envoy bonus down to +1 per turn while at peace may help, and/or turning Apadana down to +1 envoy per wonder built in the capital (on top of your base wonder bonus).

Attacking a city from the sea felt much better tuned than previously. Possible, but quite difficult, rather than a fait accompli.
 
Guynemer said:
Finished the game. Got randomized into Pericles (again), which was fine, as I wanted to see how the new bonus felt. And I am happy to report that it didn't feel overpowered at all, just a nice bonus. However, with his envoy bonus at peace, so long as you keep a big enough military to discourage AI from picking a fight they'll lose, and you build the Apadana, you can and will suzerain every CS in the game. The two inspirations per age is not game breaking, but the bonuses to every district from being the suzerain to 12 CS is very much so. Especially if Antananarivo is in the game, lordy loo. By the time I won, I think I was getting +100% culture from Antananarivo thanks to all the Great People. I think turning the envoy bonus down to +1 per turn while at peace may help, and/or turning Apadana down to +1 envoy per wonder built in the capital (on top of your base wonder bonus).

Attacking a city from the sea felt much better tuned than previously. Possible, but quite difficult, rather than a fait accompli.
Click to expand...

I'm interested in learning your strategy for this. It's possible I am just a bad player. When I recently tried Pericles, I struggled to hold on to more than 2 city states at a time. But it's possible my strategy has flaws. I will confess I didn't build Apadana, becausemy capital wasn't ideal for wonder building. Perhaps its just the Apadana wonder that is overpowered in this context, since I guess it would cause each wonder to give 3 envoys total?
 
isau said:
I'm interested in learning your strategy for this. It's possible I am just a bad player. When I recently tried Pericles, I struggled to hold on to more than 2 city states at a time. But it's possible my strategy has flaws. I will confess I didn't build Apadana, becausemy capital wasn't ideal for wonder building. Perhaps its just the Apadana wonder that is overpowered in this context, since I guess it would cause each wonder to give 3 envoys total?
Click to expand...

It is partially the Apadana itself, and partially an aspect of your overhaul we haven't really talked about yet. 3 envoys for every wonder in the capital is extremely powerful as it is (can immediately get up the 3 envoy level with the CS of your choice, often becoming the suzerain in the process), plus consider that your mod eliminates the district restrictions on mods, so it is much easier to build a bunch of wonders in the capital. You don't even necessarily have to chase a bunch of wonders, either; there are plenty of options, you can pick and choose which ones you want. On top of that, add in the free envoy for every Acropolis, which you ought to be building in every city. In retrospect, the baseline envoy bonus at peace is rather trivial, compared to all of the above.

If you are playing with the Reformation Victories mod that you recommended, you'd have to go out of your way to NOT win a diplomatic victory.
 
Guynemer said:
It is partially the Apadana itself, and partially an aspect of your overhaul we haven't really talked about yet. 3 envoys for every wonder in the capital is extremely powerful as it is (can immediately get up the 3 envoy level with the CS of your choice, often becoming the suzerain in the process), plus consider that your mod eliminates the district restrictions on mods, so it is much easier to build a bunch of wonders in the capital. You don't even necessarily have to chase a bunch of wonders, either; there are plenty of options, you can pick and choose which ones you want. On top of that, add in the free envoy for every Acropolis, which you ought to be building in every city. In retrospect, the baseline envoy bonus at peace is rather trivial, compared to all of the above.

If you are playing with the Reformation Victories mod that you recommended, you'd have to go out of your way to NOT win a diplomatic victory.
Click to expand...


Thanks for explaining. It sounds like the Wonder itself is just overpowered in the context of this mod. The wonder was added by one of the recent DLCs I think, so it wasn't part of the balancing when I first wrote the "influence token from wonders" code. I'll need to think about how to update it.
 
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