Race and Test Scores

[Godwynn]

Disclaimer: Seriously people, keep this civil. I know anything that deals with race on this board is a touchy subject. I am just showing you the facts here, and I come to you asking you the following: Why would the test scores be different? What could have brough this about? Is it nature or nurture?

BTW. Don't call me a racist for starting this thread. The graphs I am about to show you are not made by me, nor am I bashing any racial group, nor do these tests mean everyone of that race makes that score. I am generally interested in this subject and wish to learn more about it, so I came to CFC.

Allow me to start out with some graphs:

This is the United States' 2003 SAT scores.

As you can see Asians and Caucasians scored the highest, while African Americans and Mexican Americans scored the lowest. I doubt minority status has anything to do with the scores since Asians scored better than Caucasians in the Math part of the test. But poverty is one that is left open for you all to discuss.

This is an 1987 I.Q. test

Again, the Asians and Caucasians score higher than the Africans and Hispanics.

More of the same.

-There is a theory that colder environments allowed brains to grow larger in some races. The Artic Peoples and East Asians have the largest brains, but also developed in the coldest climates. See second source below for the full graph.

My sources:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_Differences_in_Intelligence
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence_(Average_gaps_among_races)

Believe it? Complete BS?

 

[The Yankee]

No idea on environment, but I do wonder how much culture and location (such as being in an inner city) plays a role. There has to be a reason why Asians do much better at Math than Verbal on the SAT, which is much higher than all the other scores.

If you want to believe that a lot of Asian parents push for their children to study a lot more, that is.

 

[downtown]

Here comes Bad_Ronald

 

[7ronin]

I can't give you any references but I think there have been quite a few studies which have shown that there is no relationship between brain size and intelligence in humans.

 

[Godwynn]

I can't give you any references but I think there have been quite a few studies which have shown that there is no relationship between brain size and intelligence in humans.

This may very well be true. As from the second source in my first post. The coldest climates have the largest brains, and do also have the highest scores. The Artic Peoples, East Asians, and Caucasians.

On the opposite side of the coin, the warmest temperatures do not have the lowest scores. The Pacific Islanders and Southeast Asians are from the warmest temperatures, but have larger brains that the Australians, Africans, and Bushmen.

 

[kingjoshi]

Studies have shown economic status has a larger impact. Even when comparing within schools, the people of lower economic status tend to score lower. As groups, Hispanics and Blacks are much lower on the economic rung. Even when attending better academic schools, they tend to be financially worse off then their peers.

Another reason is academic success of one's parents. There is a marked difference among Asians. Chinese have settled on the west coast for a long time. Desis, Japanese and Koreans often were academically and/or financially well off where they came from when they arrived in the US. They're kids score better. However, families of refugees (Vietnamese, Cambodian, Laos), their scores are low and high school drop out rates are high.

The final major reason that pops into my head is culture. This goes in hand with the other two. It's the culture of the family and their surroundings. How much is education stressed? How high are expectations?

The people that 'immigrated' (not refugees) from other countries tend to be those that work extremely hard, be smart and/or financially wealthy. The ones that aren't like that tend to get stuck back home! They instill those same values into their children that got them here. Their standards and expectations are high and while that gets a higher percentage of people to accomplish more, you also have higher suicides and other issues.

A recent case had this Chinese-American who was a model student in high school. Played many sports, played instruments, did a lot of services, etc. And all of a sudden, the 17 year old runs around the house stabbing her mother to death. She had been writing an online blog for three years detailing how her parents punished her and how she hated her mom. They would beat her for getting a 96%. They would force her to be naked and stay in the corner. Continually mentally abuse her.

Most families aren't so drastic. But the pressures on children is not to pass or do well, it's to be the top. For many families from Hispanic, Black or refugee backgrounds, passing high school is a great thing. I worked at a Chinese restuarant with a Laos-American and he had dropped out of high school. He as saying how he was his parents last hope (all his siblings dropped out too). The world of difference creates drastically different expectations. My mom got her Masters and my dad got his PhD. At age 10, I'm thinking of getting my PhD eventually, and he barely ever had hopes of finishing high school.

 

[JohnRM]

I think that it has a lot more to do with history than race. It is amazing how many people underestimate the effect of 400 years of slavery and racism have had on the African-American population.

Those origins of the racial groups that are lacking in test scores have troubled histories. You have to take into account hundreds of years of instability and warfare. When one's life pursuit is diminished merely to surviving and making it to adulthood, it is hard to learn anything else.

 

[azzaman333]

I'm fed up with Asians beating me in maths competions...

I was in a Maths competion a couple of years ago and i got a high distinction (top 0.1% iirc). Only 2 or 3 (out of at least 20 cant remember the exact number) of the people who scored higher than me didnt have asain sounding names. This was (at least) a state-wide competion. I would definately believe that Asians are very good at Maths.

 

[The Yankee]

I think that it has a lot more to do with history than race. It is amazing how many people underestimate the effect of 400 years of slavery and racism have had on the African-American population.

Those origins of the racial groups that are lacking in test scores have troubled histories. You have to take into account hundreds of years of instability and warfare. When one's life pursuit is diminished merely to surviving and making it to adulthood, it is hard to learn anything else.

Aren't those things reflective in the economic class disparities we see today?

 

[JohnRM]

Aren't those things reflective in the economic class disparities we see today?

Of course. There is a connection across the board.

 

[The Yankee]

I'm still wondering what theories there might be for the huge disparity between Math and Verbal on the Asian SAT scores. Different brain wiring? Cultural focus?

 

[Red Stranger]

Whites and Asians have bigger brains. Blacks and Mexicans have better atheletic abilities. Not saying either one is better. We just have different abilities.

 

[kingjoshi]

I'm still wondering what theories there might be for the huge disparity between Math and Verbal on the Asian SAT scores. Different brain wiring? Cultural focus?

Cultural focus. The question Desi parents ask their children is, "Do you want to be a doctor or engineer?" Math and sciences are highly emphasized. You'll notice that while many Asian parents force their children to play music, many of them would be sorely disappointed if they continued to be successful as a musician versus giving that up for being a doctor or engineer. Acting, dancing, writing, etc are regarded much worse (culturally). It's not something that's necessarily looked down upon, but the parents' focus and hopes are different.

 

[ainwood]

Moderator Action: Disclaimer or not, I am exceptionally uncomfortable about topics like this - given past experiences.

Whilst the topic isn't posted with an agenda, we have a number of people on these forums that use these types of issues to propogate their own misguided views of the world.

The discussion to date in this thread is fine - which is great to see, however I will pre-emptively close this.