Race Baiting 101.....

[MobBoss]

Al Sharpton can race bait by mere presence - he draws in those attracted to the race baiting game even when he says a case isn't about race. Makes all the other race baiters feel small and inadequate by comparison.

Perhaps you need to comprehend his audience? Is he speaking to the Chinese community in New York?

Hmmmm?

 

[Sharwood]

It's very hard to judge what exactly happened here. I don't know if you were joking about the "Nissan" crack or what, but that's what it seems to be. This was a case of police officers trying to stop a car. I've read articles that say they HIT one of the cops. Or at the very least ALMOST hit a cop. They rammed the police van more than once.

With that said, I can understand why cops would be apt to begin shooting to stop the vehicle. It also should be noted that the first cop that started shooting was black.

To me, this seems like a case where everything that could have gone wrong and escalated the situation, went wrong, and escalated the situation.

Once you have a drunk, with a car, potentially using it as a weapon, you shoot until it stops.

Traditionally, when trying to stop a moving vehicle, one shoots at:

A) The tyres, or

B) The driver.

Last time I checked, it doesn't normally take 50 bullets to do that.

 

[MobBoss]

Last time I checked, it doesn't normally take 50 bullets to do that.

You ever fired a handgun in a stressful situation with your adrenaline going?

I assume by your statement the answer to that would be a big 'no'. It doesnt happen like it does in hollywood.

It takes as many bullets as it takes.

 

[JollyRoger]

Perhaps you need to comprehend his audience? Is he speaking to the Chinese community in New York?

Hmmmm?

I have comprehended a small part of his audience and am having a good at their expense.

 

[Sharwood]

Perhaps you need to comprehend his audience? Is he speaking to the Chinese community in New York?

Hmmmm?

I could speak about Lebanese men committing crime to white members of Sydney, doesn't mean I'm race-baiting unless I actually imply race has some importance in the crime.

 

[Sharwood]

You ever fired a handgun in a stressful situation with your adrenaline going?

I assume by your statement the answer to that would be a big 'no'. It doesnt happen like it does in hollywood.

It takes as many bullets as it takes.

Actually, yes. I've never once missed a shot, either. Maybe that means I'm simply in more control of myself than these guys, but the fact is I'm not a trained police officer. There's no reason I should know better, there's significant reasons as to why they should.

 

[Trajan12]

You ever fired a handgun in a stressful situation with your adrenaline going?

I assume by your statement the answer to that would be a big 'no'. It doesnt happen like it does in hollywood.

It takes as many bullets as it takes.

You don't need to have ever fired a gun in your life to know that if three trained police officers can't hit the tires on an SUV until 51 rounds have been fired then they can't be that good.

Police officers are trained to be able to do these sort of things in stressful situations. If they weren't they'd be no more useful than vigilantes. If these officers can't do their jobs efficiently under stress then perhaps it's safer for the rest of us that they be relieved of duty.

 

[JollyRoger]

These officers are Vice Presidential material.

 

[MobBoss]

I could speak about Lebanese men committing crime to white members of Sydney, doesn't mean I'm race-baiting unless I actually imply race has some importance in the crime.

Thats incorrect. There doesnt need to have been a crime committed at all in order to race bait.

Firing up the black community in New York to the point of 'shutting down the city' over a perceived injustice to a black man there is precisely race baiting.

Its a tactic Big Al has much experience in.

 

[Merkinball]

Number one, there was no testimony from the trial witnesses that the Officers identified themselves as police, or that they showed a badge. The only person who refers to seeing a badge is the first journalist on the scene.

Number two, these were undercover officers, not displaying turret lights, in plain clothes and unmarked vehicles, outside a strip club, late at night. There's no objective reason why anyone should assume that they were police officers rather than carjackers. Sorry, but that's just reality. - Den Valdron

Alright, so then why try freakishly to get away from him, and not have a similar confrontation with the people inside the club? Why would these guys, on one hand, go out their car to presumably get a gun to take care of a problem with rivals in the club, but try and run over people confronting them outside of the club? What makes more sense, that they would openly and thuggishly confront people inside the club, and then try and run away from car jackers? Or thuggishly confront people inside the club, and then try and run away from cops because they'd all been arrested on multiple occassions, and were in posession of drugs.

He still would have had time to figure out they actually were police officers by this point.

Under what guise? How implausible. So they don't tell them they're cops. They don't have lights, they don't do all those things you said. But cathartically they realize that they must have cops? Gimme a break.

You are wrong. The quote that you are referring to comes from William Rudnick, an EMT who was doing CPR and treatment on the victims. - Don Veldron

He was a FIRST RESPONDER! He was right there, in the area, when it happened.

However, if you have done nothing wrong that you are aware of, and are being accosted by armed men in plain clothes with no sign of uniformed officers, police lights, or police cars around... there's no special reason to automatically assume that they are police. - don Veldron

When did the guns come out?

Let's for a moment say that they were brandishing guns. If you are in a PARKED CAR and a bunch of guys approaches your car, pointing guns at you, what are you gonna do and why? I'm doing whatever the hell they tell me to do because odds are, I'm gonna end up like these guys did if I don't. Whether they are cops or not. Fight flight takes over here and you're an idiot to fight three to five guys pointing their guns at you.

But first, is there clear evidence from anyone other than the stripper that they had their guns out before hand? And that the guns didn't come out AFTER he started ramming the police van?

Thanks for clearing that up. So two junior officers and one seasoned one. - Den Valdron

Jesus...

What's it take to be "seasoned" to you...

I spent more than seven years in the Marine Corps. Guess I wasn't seasoned or something...

Den did not, in any way, imply that it wasn't a significant crime to pretend to be a cop. - Sharwood

I said insinuate. And I would say, that given the tone and his initial position, that he was insinuating that this isn't a big deal. And again, I was just explaining that it was a felony.

Point out to me where Den mentioned they were targeted because of race. I've read both his posts twice, and I'll be damned if I can't see it. - Sharwood

If this came across as a direct position of Den, then I apologize. I meant it as a generality of people who HAVE talked about the notions that this was a racist action.

 

[JollyRoger]

Perceived injustice? Did Bell do something death-penalty worthy?

 

[Sharwood]

Thats incorrect. There doesnt need to have been a crime committed at all in order to race bait.

Firing up the black community in New York to the point of 'shutting down the city' over a perceived injustice to a black man there is precisely race baiting.

Its a tactic Big Al has much experience in.

All right then, I'll accept that. I admittedly don't know enough about Sharpton to judge him, but you're right, if he's specifically firing up the black community, it's a form of race baiting. I would argue that he'd be entirely justified in this case though, but he should broaden his message to more than just the black community.

 

[JollyRoger]

All right then, I'll accept that. I admittedly don't know enough about Sharpton to judge him, but you're right, if he's specifically firing up the black community, it's a form of race baiting. I would argue that he'd be entirely justified in this case though, but he should broaden his message to more than just the black community.

Well, he's incited a non-black part of his audience to start a thread.

 

[Merkinball]

Traditionally, when trying to stop a moving vehicle, one shoots at:

A) The tyres, or

B) The driver.

Last time I checked, it doesn't normally take 50 bullets to do that.

We don't know where they were shooting from.

From what I understand from the testimony piece from the NYT, the tires WERE indeed flat.

As MobBoss said, you've obviously never been faced with the prospect of the situation before.

In a situation such as that, particularly if you are in the rhealm of getting hit, you fire until the car stops. You don't fire until the tires are flat. You fire until the car stops.

 

[MobBoss]

Actually, yes. I've never once missed a shot, either. Maybe that means I'm simply in more control of myself than these guys, but the fact is I'm not a trained police officer. There's no reason I should know better, there's significant reasons as to why they should.

You don't need to have ever fired a gun in your life to know that if three trained police officers can't hit the tires on an SUV until 51 rounds have been fired then they can't be that good.

Police officers are trained to be able to do these sort of things in stressful situations. If they weren't they'd be no more useful than vigilantes. If these officers can't do their jobs efficiently under stress then perhaps it's safer for the rest of us that they be relieved of duty.

The point is guys, even though they have been trained in regards to it doesnt mean that it is still very hard to do.

It was the middle of the night and dark. Moving targets and under stress. Pistol accuracy degrades rapidly even under ideal circumstances....even under no stress, stationary targets, pistol accuracy is measured in the tens of yards. Typical pistol target range is usually only about 25 yards and thats it.

Again, being someone familiar with firearms and training under those type of circumstances, I dont see this as an indication that the cops were inefficient or untrained, just simply that the situation a difficult one to make such a shot under those conditions.

People complaining about the number of shots have been watching too many movies.

 

[Merkinball]

Perceived injustice? Did Bell do something death-penalty worthy?

It's hard to tell. If I was a cop and a someone was driving a car at me, that's death penalty worthy. Hell, in everyday life, if someone is driving a car at me, it's death penalty worthy. What do you say?

 

[Cu Chulainn]

Once you have a drunk, with a car, potentially using it as a weapon, you shoot until it stops.

And what, pray tell, do you do when your in a parking lot at night and a random stranger points a gun at you and demands you get out of your car? My response would be either run like hell, or try to hit him with the car. Funny thats exactly what happened.

 

[MobBoss]

Perceived injustice? Did Bell do something death-penalty worthy?

Yeah, he didnt immediately comply and raise his hands when told "stop police"....and instead tried to run them down.

 

[Merkinball]

Then you're nuts. I already explained, if I don't have the upper hand, I do what they tell me to do. If I were in a parking lot, anywhere, or stopped at a red light, and someone approached me while pointing a gun at my face, I am going to do exactly what he says.

Now keep in mind, I am an ardent gun supporter, I've talked about using guns in my home in the past, and I feel very confident, that if the perp has the UPPER HAND on me, that I do what he says.

Why would you do ANYTHING else? If he IS a car jacker, then getting out of it and running may be an option. But driving a car at someone who is pointing a gun at you is pure suicide under any scenario.

 

[MobBoss]

And what, pray tell, do you do when your in a parking lot at night and a random stranger points a gun at you and demands you get out of your car? My response would be either run like hell, or try to hit him with the car. Funny thats exactly what happened.

I assume you were right there and saw the whole thing since you say thats EXACTLY what happend.

However, that wasnt so clear in the courtroom apparently.

/meh.