Alright, I'll have the next turnset up tomorrow - tentatively, last chance for input plan: First looking to stick with Animal Husbandry, into Currency unless something really new develops, and not try to whore techs around (the AI not advancing so fast isn't a bad thing in the long run). I'm thinking we might as well use the corn/sheep city east of the capital for a library + scientists right away - too bad we don't have representation, but the GPP will be important, and it's a lot easier than some other attempt to chop HG or something. And I'll play a considerate and militarily safe REX as well as I can for the glory of our nation.
Ragnar Danneskjold: A Tale of Freedom
- Thread starter Earthling
- Start date
Anar
Chieftain
REX seems fine to me. As to the war vs Huayna, do we want to go for it now (start it before 1AD) or not? I have second thoughts about it. Since we have enough place to expand we might as well leave Huayna for now. However remember that he is likely to come with demands for technologies, which would result in declaration of war.
I honestly don't know how to approach this. In a normal game peaceful REX would be the right call, however under our circumstances eliminating him might be a better idea. We don't see the whole map yet, but it's safe to say that with Huayna eliminated we would have to secure our south border (Mao, Joao). Maybe we should consider trying to secure our south border with some block cities there and strike at Huayna. This way we will have a huge land to expand as well as safer goegraphical-political situation.
As to the tech order which would consider war, I think AH->Currency first is fine. While researching these it might be wise to start producing Axemen/Spearmen. And then after Currency we can research Construction and once it's done get some catapults and move onto Huayna.
Pros and cons?
I honestly don't know how to approach this. In a normal game peaceful REX would be the right call, however under our circumstances eliminating him might be a better idea. We don't see the whole map yet, but it's safe to say that with Huayna eliminated we would have to secure our south border (Mao, Joao). Maybe we should consider trying to secure our south border with some block cities there and strike at Huayna. This way we will have a huge land to expand as well as safer goegraphical-political situation.
As to the tech order which would consider war, I think AH->Currency first is fine. While researching these it might be wise to start producing Axemen/Spearmen. And then after Currency we can research Construction and once it's done get some catapults and move onto Huayna.
Pros and cons?
PaulusIII
Unholy Warlord
I don't think we can already afford a war. I'd prefer not to start one already, especially since we're going to be drawn into wars no matter what.
Anar
Chieftain
I know the war would costs us, but our variant will get us into war sooner or later. It's better to go to war prepared than simply declare and let our enemy build army, while we are preparing.
Chapter 7: Mao takes a Beating
The theme of survival was central to the actions of every civilization in this era, including our own. But not due to any conflict with each other, even if other societies still force their citizens into primitive and backwards governmental structures. No, the problem was those with no heart for the sedentary lifestyle at all, bands of wild raiders which descend from the most desolate of places. While our people sought to build up more defenses, the strongest assaults were against the city of Tindehult.
But the strategic and tactical genius of our brave warriors led us to prevail in nearly every instance. At most, we saw a few roads pillaged, damage that could easily be repaired. Only one regiment of archers, newly trained in the border city of Granitholm, was caught off guard by barbarians.
As time went on, some brave soldiers set up stations in the wilderness to ensure that no more bands of raiders could form out there, and our people began to know they no longer had to live in fear. The discovery and training of the wild horse led to even greater potential for defensive power, and our first chariots already have contributed greatly to our defenses.
Meanwhile, our brave scout Beowulf brought us more intelligence than we could have possibly hoped for, a talented explorer indeed. He was warmly welcomed into the cities of the Portuguese empire as we welcomed some emissaries they sent our way, opening our borders as a sign of friendship. Beowulf's tale doesn't end here though, as he forged his way across the wilderness of the Southern reaches of the known world, even finding lands full of wondrous giant animals.
On the domestic front our people were on a slow pace of seeking out new knowledge as much cost was spent on maintaining our settlements, and defenses. We had no opportunity to engage in much trade with other societies, save a single offer by Huayna Capac, which was turned down as it seemed rather unfair.
But Huayna proceeded on in his own way, our advisors unsure of what path he intends, and at the same time Joao has invested in further knowledge of communicating ideas and has the potential to trade as well. Huayna constructed a grand temple to the pagan goddess Artemis, a grand achievement in the view of his people, and rumor has reached us of another new faith (Confucianism) spreading in distant lands, but no other remarkable achievements have occurred that we know of. Our neighbor's advancements at turn 150:
Speaking of brave settlers, two new cities were founded in this era - they have yet to develop quirky customs and names of their own, but we expect them to become great settlements in the years ahead. We have founded one city on the inland lake and the most recent on our eastern coast.
At the same time, we began to feel some pressure from the expansion of others, including the surprising choices of the Chinese Emperor, Mao Zedong. His people vie for influence over the hills and mountains around Tindehul, this has led to no conflict yet, and in fact our advisors are rather baffled that the Chinese went to such expenses for such a mediocre settlement.
Beowulf's explorations, however, found Joao's empire to be thriving much more, and his latest settlement northward appears to have resisted barbarian assault as well as our people have.
But finally, Beowulf also discovers more clues to why the Chinese people fare so poorly and seem so desparate. Their soldiers, perhaps poorly equipped and motivated and drawn from slave ranks, repeatedly seem unable to face barbarian threats to their land and cities. Nothing we can do at this time but make note of it, and hope Mao can become more enlightened in his ways to break this cycle of violence and destruction.
So these updates bring us to the limits of what our advisors know in this era - below are the maps of our own nation and our neighbors, the limits of the known world.
Strategy
-We shouldn't have any more barbarian concerns ourselves - spread out the fogbusters as needed, with a couple more chariots (likely from Granitholm, it doesn't have much else to build besides military) we have the mobility to defend anywhere. We should continue to be vigilant for possible barbarian cities springing up (there's ample room) that we can conquer.
-Tech seems to be crawling along, even for epic, but it should constantly be getting better. We can be cottaging up floodplains and the newly founded cities should be picking up population rather quickly. Our first GS is 25 turns away, it'll be a choice between settling and an Academy - I'm guessing the Academy will pay off more.
-First major concern is diplomacy. Nobody actually has significant power right now so we shouldn't have to fear war against us - plus everyone but Huayna is at pleased. If we're considering provoking/starting a war ourselves, I think it really should be noted that Mao is getting owned for whatever reason (barbs/poor AI settling etc...). So we need to decide if we're going to put some more forest chops straight into military, we certainly do have that option, and make some gains when the time is right.
-Lastly, we really are in a pickle for happiness right now, the next couple of turnsets should be very vigilant for opportunities to remedy this. If Huayna's still alive, I think we should be able to trade for silk/spices when he gets Calendar. IIRC Joao only has the one gold but we can be on the lookout if another metal resource pops up somewhere. We have whales that could actually be usable but that's also a while away. It might well be worth sending out a colonizing party to the Southern ivory city, especially since barbs will likely take the spot. But these aren't enough on their own - we'll likely need to pursue other avenues for happiness, through buildings/culture. Religions haven't even spread on our continent which makes things tougher. But on the bright side these will probably also be slight drawbacks to the AI.
Chapter 7 Save (Turn 150)
View attachment Ragnar Danneskjold Chapter7.CivBeyondSwordSave
The theme of survival was central to the actions of every civilization in this era, including our own. But not due to any conflict with each other, even if other societies still force their citizens into primitive and backwards governmental structures. No, the problem was those with no heart for the sedentary lifestyle at all, bands of wild raiders which descend from the most desolate of places. While our people sought to build up more defenses, the strongest assaults were against the city of Tindehult.
But the strategic and tactical genius of our brave warriors led us to prevail in nearly every instance. At most, we saw a few roads pillaged, damage that could easily be repaired. Only one regiment of archers, newly trained in the border city of Granitholm, was caught off guard by barbarians.
As time went on, some brave soldiers set up stations in the wilderness to ensure that no more bands of raiders could form out there, and our people began to know they no longer had to live in fear. The discovery and training of the wild horse led to even greater potential for defensive power, and our first chariots already have contributed greatly to our defenses.
Meanwhile, our brave scout Beowulf brought us more intelligence than we could have possibly hoped for, a talented explorer indeed. He was warmly welcomed into the cities of the Portuguese empire as we welcomed some emissaries they sent our way, opening our borders as a sign of friendship. Beowulf's tale doesn't end here though, as he forged his way across the wilderness of the Southern reaches of the known world, even finding lands full of wondrous giant animals.
On the domestic front our people were on a slow pace of seeking out new knowledge as much cost was spent on maintaining our settlements, and defenses. We had no opportunity to engage in much trade with other societies, save a single offer by Huayna Capac, which was turned down as it seemed rather unfair.
But Huayna proceeded on in his own way, our advisors unsure of what path he intends, and at the same time Joao has invested in further knowledge of communicating ideas and has the potential to trade as well. Huayna constructed a grand temple to the pagan goddess Artemis, a grand achievement in the view of his people, and rumor has reached us of another new faith (Confucianism) spreading in distant lands, but no other remarkable achievements have occurred that we know of. Our neighbor's advancements at turn 150:
Speaking of brave settlers, two new cities were founded in this era - they have yet to develop quirky customs and names of their own, but we expect them to become great settlements in the years ahead. We have founded one city on the inland lake and the most recent on our eastern coast.
At the same time, we began to feel some pressure from the expansion of others, including the surprising choices of the Chinese Emperor, Mao Zedong. His people vie for influence over the hills and mountains around Tindehul, this has led to no conflict yet, and in fact our advisors are rather baffled that the Chinese went to such expenses for such a mediocre settlement.
Beowulf's explorations, however, found Joao's empire to be thriving much more, and his latest settlement northward appears to have resisted barbarian assault as well as our people have.
But finally, Beowulf also discovers more clues to why the Chinese people fare so poorly and seem so desparate. Their soldiers, perhaps poorly equipped and motivated and drawn from slave ranks, repeatedly seem unable to face barbarian threats to their land and cities. Nothing we can do at this time but make note of it, and hope Mao can become more enlightened in his ways to break this cycle of violence and destruction.
So these updates bring us to the limits of what our advisors know in this era - below are the maps of our own nation and our neighbors, the limits of the known world.
Spoiler :
Strategy
-We shouldn't have any more barbarian concerns ourselves - spread out the fogbusters as needed, with a couple more chariots (likely from Granitholm, it doesn't have much else to build besides military) we have the mobility to defend anywhere. We should continue to be vigilant for possible barbarian cities springing up (there's ample room) that we can conquer.
-Tech seems to be crawling along, even for epic, but it should constantly be getting better. We can be cottaging up floodplains and the newly founded cities should be picking up population rather quickly. Our first GS is 25 turns away, it'll be a choice between settling and an Academy - I'm guessing the Academy will pay off more.
-First major concern is diplomacy. Nobody actually has significant power right now so we shouldn't have to fear war against us - plus everyone but Huayna is at pleased. If we're considering provoking/starting a war ourselves, I think it really should be noted that Mao is getting owned for whatever reason (barbs/poor AI settling etc...). So we need to decide if we're going to put some more forest chops straight into military, we certainly do have that option, and make some gains when the time is right.
-Lastly, we really are in a pickle for happiness right now, the next couple of turnsets should be very vigilant for opportunities to remedy this. If Huayna's still alive, I think we should be able to trade for silk/spices when he gets Calendar. IIRC Joao only has the one gold but we can be on the lookout if another metal resource pops up somewhere. We have whales that could actually be usable but that's also a while away. It might well be worth sending out a colonizing party to the Southern ivory city, especially since barbs will likely take the spot. But these aren't enough on their own - we'll likely need to pursue other avenues for happiness, through buildings/culture. Religions haven't even spread on our continent which makes things tougher. But on the bright side these will probably also be slight drawbacks to the AI.
Chapter 7 Save (Turn 150)
View attachment Ragnar Danneskjold Chapter7.CivBeyondSwordSave
Loki Strikes
Prince
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2008
- Messages
- 510
No hereditary rule... happiness will be interesting...
Other than the variant, the situation looks okay. We need to get cottages + libraries up, I vote slider to 0 while we get libraries up/wait for enough for gold to get to currency at 100%.
The Jumbos look attractive, but I don't know if we can handle another city...
I think you forgot the save, so if you can attach that I can make some more specific comments.
I am next and will play in a few days once people comment/save is up.
Other than the variant, the situation looks okay. We need to get cottages + libraries up, I vote slider to 0 while we get libraries up/wait for enough for gold to get to currency at 100%.
The Jumbos look attractive, but I don't know if we can handle another city...
I think you forgot the save, so if you can attach that I can make some more specific comments.
I am next and will play in a few days once people comment/save is up.
Ah, knew there was something... I did forget to attach the save. It's up now. From the screenshots, yeah, commerce situation looks pretty bad but the new cities should grow very quickly, and can work a lot of 3
tiles (with growth if they're cottages). Happiness is the real challenge - it actually looks like Mao should be able to trade elephants though if he gets his culture to expand, that's a good thing; I'm guessing a barb city will still show up in the unclaimed area anyway. If the happy situation doesn't shape up in the long run we may have to go the theatre + colisseum route - one thing we could consider is saving some forests somewhere to chop Notre Dame since we have the stone bonus; the Globe Theatre could also be nice but is rather expensive (Question is whether to put it with NE in the capital for Great People, as we also have to wonder where Oxford may be down the line). But Currency will probably take up a good part of the next turnset anyway and after that the decision will probably depend on what the AI are up to.
tiles (with growth if they're cottages). Happiness is the real challenge - it actually looks like Mao should be able to trade elephants though if he gets his culture to expand, that's a good thing; I'm guessing a barb city will still show up in the unclaimed area anyway. If the happy situation doesn't shape up in the long run we may have to go the theatre + colisseum route - one thing we could consider is saving some forests somewhere to chop Notre Dame since we have the stone bonus; the Globe Theatre could also be nice but is rather expensive (Question is whether to put it with NE in the capital for Great People, as we also have to wonder where Oxford may be down the line). But Currency will probably take up a good part of the next turnset anyway and after that the decision will probably depend on what the AI are up to.Loki Strikes
Prince
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2008
- Messages
- 510
Yeah I am thinking we will need culture slider for happiness at some point. Notre Dame sounds good if we can get engineering early through trade.
Diamondeye
So Happy I Could Die
Looks like a good set, Earthling. Who's up?
Oh, and we don't have metals, correct? Do we even have IW? Perhaps that'd be an idea if we want to fight someone soon...
I think, for city names, Nidaros should be named "Bedefjelde", and Uppsala something like "Taftemose".
Oh, and we don't have metals, correct? Do we even have IW? Perhaps that'd be an idea if we want to fight someone soon...
I think, for city names, Nidaros should be named "Bedefjelde", and Uppsala something like "Taftemose".
Loki Strikes
Prince
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2008
- Messages
- 510
I am up... I am leaving Sunday and will be out of comission (no internet I realized just now) for all summer... 
I will play my set before I leave though, expect report today or earrllllyyy Sunday.
Strike a blow for freedom without me guys
EDIT:
Turnset for another SG took all night ... and I have to pack Sunday morning, I am so sorry guys, thought my travelling wouldn't conflict cause I assumed I would have internet, but I won't
I gotta sign out and be on permaskip until the middle of August
Go get em for me guys and once again I apologize.
I will play my set before I leave though, expect report today or earrllllyyy Sunday.
Strike a blow for freedom without me guys
EDIT:
Turnset for another SG took all night ... and I have to pack Sunday morning, I am so sorry guys, thought my travelling wouldn't conflict cause I assumed I would have internet, but I won't
I gotta sign out and be on permaskip until the middle of August
Go get em for me guys and once again I apologize.
Oh, that's no problem at all. And actually you have me really intrigued, it sounds like you're doing something pretty awesome if it gets you away from the Internet. Since I don't know what it is I'll just put you down for climbing Everest 
But really, whatever you're working on, hope you have a great summer and thanks.
But really, whatever you're working on, hope you have a great summer and thanks.
Diamondeye
So Happy I Could Die
That means who exactly is up?
oynaz
Prince
You, I think 
Diamondeye
So Happy I Could Die
Alright. "Tomorrow".
Diamondeye
So Happy I Could Die
... In the meaning, "thursday".
(my PH-15 set took longer than I expected, so I'll deal with this tomorrow).
(my PH-15 set took longer than I expected, so I'll deal with this tomorrow).
Diamondeye
So Happy I Could Die
And the tale of Ragnar Danneskiold continues!
First, Beowulf the scout makes himself useful in keeping an eye on the development of the Chinese:
Second - who said religion?
Huayna has founded Taoism, and it spread to Granitholm. I converted immidiately, and he's now at Pleased with us.
Also, I renamed the cities Uppsala and Nidaros to Tørvemose and Bedefielde.
Beowulf keeps us updated on the ellies (culture has expanded, but barbs are evidently slowing down the development of the improvements) - and runs into a Chinese settler party, whom he follows:
Barb city spawned near the Tao city, Granitholm. We need Meditation. I try begging Joao for it - he doesn't part with it.
Beowulf follows the Settler party until they settle Tianjin on Horses:
And here's the thing. I stopped three turns early because of a situation that might determine how this game proceeds. I notice an Incan settler-party guarded only by a wounded axeman, in range of one of our Chariots, and two Incan workers...
He's Pleased with us, he shares our religion, and he's the leader in score. But we have to deal with him sooner or later. Not that we have any measurable army, but we have some Chariots hanging around. Getting three Workers and keeping our turf for ourself would definately be in our interests, but is it worth the cost?
Let me hear ye, freemen!
First, Beowulf the scout makes himself useful in keeping an eye on the development of the Chinese:
Spoiler :
Second - who said religion?
Spoiler :
Huayna has founded Taoism, and it spread to Granitholm. I converted immidiately, and he's now at Pleased with us.
Also, I renamed the cities Uppsala and Nidaros to Tørvemose and Bedefielde.
Beowulf keeps us updated on the ellies (culture has expanded, but barbs are evidently slowing down the development of the improvements) - and runs into a Chinese settler party, whom he follows:
Spoiler :
Barb city spawned near the Tao city, Granitholm. We need Meditation. I try begging Joao for it - he doesn't part with it.
Spoiler :
Beowulf follows the Settler party until they settle Tianjin on Horses:
Spoiler :
And here's the thing. I stopped three turns early because of a situation that might determine how this game proceeds. I notice an Incan settler-party guarded only by a wounded axeman, in range of one of our Chariots, and two Incan workers...
He's Pleased with us, he shares our religion, and he's the leader in score. But we have to deal with him sooner or later. Not that we have any measurable army, but we have some Chariots hanging around. Getting three Workers and keeping our turf for ourself would definately be in our interests, but is it worth the cost?
Let me hear ye, freemen!
If you were trying to outsmart me it seems you might have succeeded - I guess you stayed in Paganism, which is acceptable cause it's the default, and all I specified until free religion, but adopted the religion? However, we really weren't supposed to adopt religions (Although this is probably workable - no other religions have spread in our lands have they? I should have made this clearer - we could always have built temples and stuff anyway though. And y'know, they're not being oppressed if they don't know about the alternatives. If this is all that's on this continent I suppose we can live with it).
But anyway, as far as strategy is concerned, striking Huayna doesn't seem a terrible move - and we really don't want that settler sneaking by, plus those workers are just begging for it. The one problem is that when Currency comes in we wouldn't be able to trade it around quite as much-however, if we get alpha from Joao and then Mao lacks both Alpha and Currency we'll probably be able to backfill with a ton of stuff. First Scientist should also be able to make an academy in the capital if we want it, it's less than 10 turns away now right, so we'll be teching pretty well? And for the record I could see allowing adoption of bureaucracy - I was really iffy about that category in the first place, since none of the civs are really that "bad" (though Free Speech has Free in it's name). But we'll have to come up with some compelling reasons to make it work, if we do want to pursue bureau - in the short term we might be better off with "defensive" techs anyway. Technically we're on good terms with the AI right now but we it's true we did not rule out preemptive war, and maybe our people are suffering under the decrees of the Incan priesthood, no?
(Although this is probably workable - no other religions have spread in our lands have they? I should have made this clearer - we could always have built temples and stuff anyway though. And y'know, they're not being oppressed if they don't know about the alternatives. If this is all that's on this continent I suppose we can live with it).But anyway, as far as strategy is concerned, striking Huayna doesn't seem a terrible move - and we really don't want that settler sneaking by, plus those workers are just begging for it. The one problem is that when Currency comes in we wouldn't be able to trade it around quite as much-however, if we get alpha from Joao and then Mao lacks both Alpha and Currency we'll probably be able to backfill with a ton of stuff. First Scientist should also be able to make an academy in the capital if we want it, it's less than 10 turns away now right, so we'll be teching pretty well? And for the record I could see allowing adoption of bureaucracy - I was really iffy about that category in the first place, since none of the civs are really that "bad" (though Free Speech has Free in it's name). But we'll have to come up with some compelling reasons to make it work, if we do want to pursue bureau - in the short term we might be better off with "defensive" techs anyway. Technically we're on good terms with the AI right now but we it's true we did not rule out preemptive war, and maybe our people are suffering under the decrees of the Incan priesthood, no?
Diamondeye
So Happy I Could Die
I believe GS is in 8, yes. And I think we can Huayna back to Caut or even Pleased rather fast now that we share his religion. I was not aware that we couldn't adopt religions, since we were all talking about that they were our plan for happiness, but meh.
Who's up?
Who's up?
Anar
Chieftain
Attacking Huayna without any plan apart of grabbing two worker is not a good idea. The question is whether to go after construction and start war preparations. That war along with blocked Mao would grant us huge land and it would be easier as we would have one border with China (and maybe a small one with Portugal).
The other thing is to remember that Mao is a traitorous guy and we need to watch him closely. So is Huayna, but he doesn't build too much military.
So to recap my plan would be: establishment of solid border with China, so they can't sneak in any cities behind our backs and then war preparations.
And I believe PaulusIII is up.
The other thing is to remember that Mao is a traitorous guy and we need to watch him closely. So is Huayna, but he doesn't build too much military.
So to recap my plan would be: establishment of solid border with China, so they can't sneak in any cities behind our backs and then war preparations.
And I believe PaulusIII is up.
oynaz
Prince
I agree with Anar. Worker-stealing from HC is quite a rash move.
And enslaving foreign workers seems quite out of character for this game to me.
And enslaving foreign workers seems quite out of character for this game to me.
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