Rainforest - The hardest map-type?!

[Exterminas]

Hello there!

I have come here for advice on how you tackle the Rainforest maps.

For the uninciated or the the vanilla-pangea-players, there is a custom map-type called Rainforest, which generates huge plains filled with jungle and foor resources. Here are some points on what you can expect from a rainforest map:

-Jungle everywhere (dah!)
-3-5 Food Resources per city
-Fresh water everywhere in the form of rivers
-Barely no Iron and Chopper
-Maybe Horses
-Almost no Stone and Marble
-Ocaisional desert regions
-Huge amounts of barbarians from the vast amounts of land
-Little amount of hills

And here is what strategies I have tried, and how they failed:

1. Montezuma. Jaguar ftw!
This approach worked quite well, since the Jaguar can become really strong in the jungle environment and doesn't requirre iron. However the Jaguar sucks a bit at attacking and production is a problem on these maps. I was outteched by the AI fast before it became viable to attack and conquer them.

I spent too much time and production on bulding jaguars and workes to clear all the jungle

2. Wang Kong
This time I wanted to found a religion to get early happines boost and wanted to play financial to boost my tech. Also this time I wanted to settle with the jungle instead of against it, read: Not killing the jungle instantly and thus overworking my cities.
It worked out quite well, however I only got horses and no iron, which leaves my military a bit starved against the early longbowmen of nearby tech-fanatics.


In general I consider Rainforest to be the hardest map-type around, since it combines that hard elements of a Highlands map (huge amount of barbarians and lots of room for the AI to spread) with the jungle as an obstacle that affects you, but apparently not the AI. So, any advice on it?

My current plan is to try Monty again with a slavery-heavy specialist-economy.

 

[ben-jammin]

Asoka gets the jungles cleared faster than anybody, I'd guess. Anybody expansive that starts with mining would probably also be good.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

Rainforest has issues and possibilities.
Huge amounts of food is good.
Lots of rivers is good.
you pretty much need to run slavery and get metal casting and machinery fast, to get production.
Serfdom is pretty useful, as are fast workers. Expansive is good, because sheep, cows and seafood are rare - health is a definite issue.

 

[Ghpstage]

So i've looked at a few random rainforest maps, here are some initial thoughts.

• Obviously IW is going to a big priority, your first couple of cities should look to avoid too much jungle.
• Barbs may be problematic, but at least you get the +50% defense from jungles.
• Production is going to primarily rely on food and the whip, don't be afraid to share food resources and hills between cities.
• Once you reach the Renaissance, Workshops or US Towns will provide abundant production.
• The capital tends to have drastic food clusters, and is nearly always an incredible GP farm site. The RNG seems to regularly give too much for the early game, so donating it to overlapping cities may be wise.
• When you get lucky enough to have Deers or Furs in Forests, do not chop them!
• Be willing to settle on Calender resources with early cities
• If you get food on hills, consider mining them!

Monty should be a beast here, but more for the Sac Altar and Spiritual trait than Jaguars.
Its an unusual game setting that many (most?) will not be accustomed to, so post a rainforest start here and see how other people react to it

 

[Um the Muse]

Looks like fun!

I tried it once with raging barbs and playing as Monty. Turned out to be a big mistake, though: I thought I was way behind because it was something like 1 AD and I'd only managed to get a second city, but then the AI civs started dying out on me (I'd manged to get the great wall before this).

Edit: forgot to mention the clincher: I got a domination win a couple of turns later, and all I had to do was hold until I got the GW.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Serfdom is actually still terrible unless you do a late era start.

Probably, an arid map script with utterly crap land (but lots of it) is harder; the AI will simply afford cities you can't if you give it bonuses.

 

[vicawoo]

Arid maps you can just go global wonders.

 

[Optical]

I'd go either Asoka or Sury for this, like ben-jammin said. Get to IW as fast as possible, then Pottery for cottage economy heaven

 

[Cusanus]

1. Montezuma. Jaguar ftw!

With 3-5 food ressources per city, shouldn't this rather read:
"Sacrificial Altars ftw!" ?

 

[Ghpstage]

I've played a few on Emperor/Standard/Normal, and haven't found them particularly difficult to be honest. Unless you get a ridiculously bad start its not too bad, and a fair few starts may even be easier than standard maps as the AI is completely clueless!

Heres pics from some games I started

Boudica

Spoiler :

4000BC

Pretty uninspiring start, but it does have reasonable production.

1000BC

The map proved to be far less kind than I expected, but the AI hasn't exactly ran away with it..... now I have IW and henge I should be able to start pushing out quickly once I get some Archers. Got a GS so far too.
Henge was probably a mistake.

Isabella

Spoiler :

4000BC

Wow, this start is ridiculous.... and the leader traits are perfect for this map script.

600BC

I'm really running away with this one . I'm probably outexpanding the AI, managed to grab Oracle and henge, got a GS and am grabbing some nice resources.

In both games I overlapped the second city with the capital quite heavily, this is to get an instant traderoute via river, get access to food and avoid too much jungle. The Izzie game has really tight city placement all over it for the same reasons.
I also got Writing for Libraries before I got IW in both cases.

Saladin

Spoiler :

4000BC

A few hills and reasonable food, and in the maps bottom right corner.What you can't see here is just how cramped by the jungle I am, as a result I went for henge while I was waiting and got some failgold.

1000BC

Bit of luck with Silver appearing and having Iron, that desert isn't nice though!

600BC

Starting to close the gap between me and the AIs, settled a fair few cities and am top in both production and food. Got my first GS a few turns before, its been slower than the others but nevermind.

I used tight city placement again here, seems to be the way to go in most of these games.

For some reason the RNG gods were smiling on me today, giving a collection of crazy leaders such as Willem, Zara and HC, the only 'bad' leader was Boudica! No point in pics of lots of stronger leaders.

You should look to find out what your local neighbourhood has given you and adapt to it.

• If you have mountains, use them as a shield against barbs, same thing with edge of the map starts.
• Using considerable overlap helps avoid the low cap problems
• A lot of the time any nearby rice is dwarfed by the value of animals, don't immediatewly think that as you have rice nearby you should certainly grab Agriculture soon.
• The desert makes stone, marble and gold likely, and doesn't require IW to use. These areas also come with vast expanses of cottage friendly floodplains, though not as much food. But watch out for barbs and near deserts, they are more difficult to deal with!

 

[Kid R]

I would expect it to be easier than normal, not harder. Anything a little bit awkward for us clever humans is super awkward for the AI.

Probably any map type other than temperate climate pangaea is easier for the human, even any kind of bizarre one you could cook up by hand, because the AI is tuned for standard settings.

Edit: on prince level that is. Otherwise as TMIT says the emperor+ level bonuses are also tuned for standard settings so they would have to be factored in. Anything where the optimum strategy plays into AI bonuses will help them somewhat.

 

[MarigoldRan]

Use the woodsman jaguars for choking and warrior stealing.

Monty would be monstrous on rainforest maps. Beeline IW and send two jaguar warriors to each nearby civ and laugh as the AI gets owned.

 

[Sian]

Elepult spam by massive whipabuse is a reasonable winner on Rainforest