TheOverseer714
Overseer
Really, after the first 2 rings, ring city placement stops mattering much. IIRC, Ring 1 is 16% corrupt and Ring 2 is 41%.
Raliuven SG1
- Thread starter Raliuven
- Start date
I suggested RCP 11 because it seemed to work for so many cities on the 'to be captured' list - and it worked for our Most NE town. I figured that corruption was going to be pretty bad in the 3rd ring.
Too bad re: Carthage. Any chance we can rope the Iroquois into the war with Engineering? It would be nice to be on the 'giving' side of a dogpile.
Too bad re: Carthage. Any chance we can rope the Iroquois into the war with Engineering? It would be nice to be on the 'giving' side of a dogpile.
Elephantium
Trampling the AI
I'll give that a try.
creamcheese
Spreading since 1990
I would be wary about that actually. We would be locked into 20 turns of war when we don't want a long conflict with Carthage. They are more powerful than us and judging by the way they ate Russia they might eat the Iroquois too. We do not want a runaway that large.
Elephantium
Trampling the AI
Good point, creamcheese.
Elephantium
Trampling the AI
Military disaster. We lost a lot of units to Carthage, lost a city (managed to retake it though), and had Paris flip on us.
Carthage is sending Knights against us, and they have a RoP with France.
Carthage is sending Knights against us, and they have a RoP with France.
Spoiler :
There just aren't enough troops in the area to get someone into the city in time!Gee, thanks, Elephantium.
That was a tough set of turns, through no fault of yours.
I haven't opened the save, exactly, but I have looked with CRp MapStat. Carthage will talk. America has two luxes. My inclination is to get out of the Carthage war, paying what we need to. Wrap things up against France, and then go back to America to get the luxes. I think we want to continue the war with France a bit longer, as I'd rather them not keep Paris and Medina, but if we are stretched too thin for this to be realistic, I'd rather have the techs than Avignon.
Thoughts?
Edit: I've got it.
The good news in all of this is that France will give up just about everything to get out of the war with us. They will give us Mono, Feud, 30gp & (2gpt or WM) if we walk away.
Carthage wants Tours and we can't buy our way out of the problem.
I respectfully disagree with the diplomatic situation. We should make peace with France and walk away with the techs. We could try to take Paris before we make peace, but I don't know - if we win or lose that might change France's position because we won't have an army right outside a core city. Not to mention we are threatened by several units from Carthage.
The techs will put us ahead of Rome and the Iroquois. Rome also has Monarchy - the one tech that France won't give up. We have an embassy with the Iroquois. With the gold from France we can do the same for Rome. From tech trading we can hopefully gather up enough money to establish an embassy with America as well. We could then buy Rome, the Iroquois and (hopefully) America into the war and WE devour Carthage - they are woefully underdeveloped with a lot of tundra towns. MW & Legions will be a pain in Carthage's rear from the West, America may give us some help from the North and they’ve got us from the North and East. We crush Carthage in a vice and let everyone take a piece. Heck, we might even get Russia to join in eventually and turn France against them too.
The bonus – we can start on Chiv immediately to get to our GA. If our allies can hold off Carthage long enough for us to kick off our GA, that should turn the tide.
**Edit** One thing I didn't think of is that if we dump the war with France, maybe Carthage will reconsider and give straight up peace. I agree that our next planned target should be America and it's luxuries.
Carthage wants Tours and we can't buy our way out of the problem.
I respectfully disagree with the diplomatic situation. We should make peace with France and walk away with the techs. We could try to take Paris before we make peace, but I don't know - if we win or lose that might change France's position because we won't have an army right outside a core city. Not to mention we are threatened by several units from Carthage.
The techs will put us ahead of Rome and the Iroquois. Rome also has Monarchy - the one tech that France won't give up. We have an embassy with the Iroquois. With the gold from France we can do the same for Rome. From tech trading we can hopefully gather up enough money to establish an embassy with America as well. We could then buy Rome, the Iroquois and (hopefully) America into the war and WE devour Carthage - they are woefully underdeveloped with a lot of tundra towns. MW & Legions will be a pain in Carthage's rear from the West, America may give us some help from the North and they’ve got us from the North and East. We crush Carthage in a vice and let everyone take a piece. Heck, we might even get Russia to join in eventually and turn France against them too.
The bonus – we can start on Chiv immediately to get to our GA. If our allies can hold off Carthage long enough for us to kick off our GA, that should turn the tide.
**Edit** One thing I didn't think of is that if we dump the war with France, maybe Carthage will reconsider and give straight up peace. I agree that our next planned target should be America and it's luxuries.
creamcheese
Spreading since 1990
Carthage should probably wait I think. My thinking being that they have their UU in its' prime, later they will have normal units. We should mop up France, then take out the Americans (probably using our UU on them). We use the golden age given by our UU to crush them easily and then build up some infrastructure. We should have plenty of luxes and resources by that time, and a large force with 1 or more armies hopefully. Then we make a grand coalition and crush the Carthaginians.
France's best units are 2 att or 2 def; carthage has 3, 3. We need a more coordinated defense and more transport infrastructure in what was France to defend against their push. They may also get knights soon, and we do not want to be locked into a 20 turn alliance against kights while defending with spears and a shoestring.
France's best units are 2 att or 2 def; carthage has 3, 3. We need a more coordinated defense and more transport infrastructure in what was France to defend against their push. They may also get knights soon, and we do not want to be locked into a 20 turn alliance against kights while defending with spears and a shoestring.
Elephantium
Trampling the AI
One thing to note is that we're suffering WW from the war with France.
@Raliuven: Taking Paris seems chancy at best. We lost the bulk of our attack force on the IBT, so we might not even outnumber the defenders. Add in Carthage's forces, and I think we'll lose Paris to THEM even if we take it from the French.
@Raliuven: Taking Paris seems chancy at best. We lost the bulk of our attack force on the IBT, so we might not even outnumber the defenders. Add in Carthage's forces, and I think we'll lose Paris to THEM even if we take it from the French.
@ creamcheese - I certainly see what you are saying. NM will be a pain with a 2/3, at least for a little while longer. But if Carthage has knights, it is safe to assume that France and Japan have it as well; maybe Russia too. That doesn't do France much good because they don't have iron - and without Paris they don't have horses either. It would be a very good move to make sure they never get both.
I would not have chosen the fight with Carthage just yet (I'm sure that Elephantium probably wishes that Cartahge would have selected a SANE Civ to war against like . . um. . . the Romans?), but I don't know how we get out from under it. My fear is that if we don't build a colliation against Carthage ASAP, they will buy others into the war with us - and we KNOW that the Iroquois have MW roaming around, looking for something to fight. We also know that Carthage has plenty of techs to use for bribing the other AI.
I agree we should roll over America ASAP, but I doubt a 20 turn delay for an alliance would put us off schedule - we'll probably have a 10-15 turn research time on Chiv unless we can figure out a way to trade for it. And picking up Feud will give us MI instead of swords - slightly better against knights until we can get some of those. And if we can talk the MW into doing some mopping up for us, we may not see many knights. Carthage will need to defend its weak western flank against the Romans immediately. After another look I don't know that Rome has iron, so maybe no legions or anything else worth more than a horse or archer.
In the end we don't need to beat Carthage just yet - we just need for them to back down. We can fight a defensive war or a war with very specific aims and let the other AIs do the heavy lifting. It is possible that Carthage could take out one of the other AI, but with 3 or 4 opponents, I don't think it is likely. Carthage may be the bully on the block, but they are not out of control . . . yet. And those 4 MW that were looking for employment need something to do. Last I checked the Iroquois were equal to us in strength (we were average) - which means they have an army at least as big as ours - and they have a UU that can hit both NM & knights with a 50% chance of winning. Better they run off and attack Carthage than turn on us.
General Thought
Biggest problem with leaving Paris under the control of the French is the cultural pressure. I wouldn't want to see Tours or Orleans flip back to them. But even if we take Paris, I don't know that we can hold it with the carthaginian units in the area. I didn't look to see if it had wonders, but maybe we raze it?
And if we raze it, will France still offer us so much to walk away?
**Edit** Crosspost with Elephantium - yeah, I think we just walk from Paris, at least for now.
Luckily it is up to CKS to figure all this out!
Good luck with that!
I would not have chosen the fight with Carthage just yet (I'm sure that Elephantium probably wishes that Cartahge would have selected a SANE Civ to war against like . . um. . . the Romans?), but I don't know how we get out from under it. My fear is that if we don't build a colliation against Carthage ASAP, they will buy others into the war with us - and we KNOW that the Iroquois have MW roaming around, looking for something to fight. We also know that Carthage has plenty of techs to use for bribing the other AI.
I agree we should roll over America ASAP, but I doubt a 20 turn delay for an alliance would put us off schedule - we'll probably have a 10-15 turn research time on Chiv unless we can figure out a way to trade for it. And picking up Feud will give us MI instead of swords - slightly better against knights until we can get some of those. And if we can talk the MW into doing some mopping up for us, we may not see many knights. Carthage will need to defend its weak western flank against the Romans immediately. After another look I don't know that Rome has iron, so maybe no legions or anything else worth more than a horse or archer.
In the end we don't need to beat Carthage just yet - we just need for them to back down. We can fight a defensive war or a war with very specific aims and let the other AIs do the heavy lifting. It is possible that Carthage could take out one of the other AI, but with 3 or 4 opponents, I don't think it is likely. Carthage may be the bully on the block, but they are not out of control . . . yet. And those 4 MW that were looking for employment need something to do. Last I checked the Iroquois were equal to us in strength (we were average) - which means they have an army at least as big as ours - and they have a UU that can hit both NM & knights with a 50% chance of winning. Better they run off and attack Carthage than turn on us.
General Thought
Biggest problem with leaving Paris under the control of the French is the cultural pressure. I wouldn't want to see Tours or Orleans flip back to them. But even if we take Paris, I don't know that we can hold it with the carthaginian units in the area. I didn't look to see if it had wonders, but maybe we raze it?
And if we raze it, will France still offer us so much to walk away?
**Edit** Crosspost with Elephantium - yeah, I think we just walk from Paris, at least for now.
Luckily it is up to CKS to figure all this out!
Good luck with that!TheOverseer714
Overseer
If we can get out of the Carthage war without handing them a city, I say go for it. I would wait for a real war with them for when we have the (pardon the egregious pun) Ansar to our prayers. Starting a 'Grand Alliance' now locks us into a potentially fatal and certainly damaging war, if we are building military only our tech will suffer even more.
I'm good with the consensus. I'm actually surprised that I'm the bloodthirsty (drunk?) one in the group. And I call myself a staunch builder!
Elephantium
Trampling the AI
That reminds me of a quote from Rome: Total War.
"I want to see blood! I want to BATHE in their blood! I want to bathe in their blood for a week! Now, KILL THEM ALL!"
Generals who pick up the trait "bloody" will say this in their pre-battle speeches. Pretty vicious!
Edit: Also, this quote seems apropos:
"I want to see blood! I want to BATHE in their blood! I want to bathe in their blood for a week! Now, KILL THEM ALL!"
Generals who pick up the trait "bloody" will say this in their pre-battle speeches. Pretty vicious!
Edit: Also, this quote seems apropos:
scoutsout said:
We are about ready to go to war with the Americans. We have some money to upgrade with and Ansar warriors are due next turn. We are at peace with everyone. We should be able to take out America pretty quickly and get Invention from them when we decide we've taken enough.
Spoiler :
Attachments
Wow. Good job everyone! I won't even recognize the game when it gets back to me! Joan? Joan who?
I know that a GL is too much to hope for - especially with my luck, but should we start looking at where to center a 2nd core?
ROSTER:
-Raliuven (on deck)
-Elephantium
-TheOverseer714
-CKS (just played)
-creamcheese (Playing)
I know that a GL is too much to hope for - especially with my luck, but should we start looking at where to center a 2nd core?
ROSTER:
-Raliuven (on deck)
-Elephantium
-TheOverseer714
-CKS (just played)
-creamcheese (Playing)
creamcheese
Spreading since 1990
Got it, will play tomorrow. Congrats on your progress CKS!
How much of America should I take?
How much of America should I take?
TheOverseer714
Overseer
All if possible, just don't invite anyone else to the party.
I'm going to be out of town until Sunday. If the game posts prior to that, I'll pick it up and get it done by Sunday night. Looks like Elephantium is in the same boat. Overseer, if you want to play out of turn, feel free to pick it up. Otherwise, if I see it has not be picked up when I return on Sunday, I will grab it.
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