Random personalities: Isa (Deity)
- Thread starter Mylene
- Start date
vranasm
Deity
he really has to love you somehow... so cheap horses...
I found compass being very good trade bait if AI's don't storm for it too. actually it was very surprising, compass has pretty good beaker cost, meaning you can with compass backfill even CoL or something like that.
I found compass being very good trade bait if AI's don't storm for it too. actually it was very surprising, compass has pretty good beaker cost, meaning you can with compass backfill even CoL or something like that.
HodorHodor
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2011
- Messages
- 8
I decided to attack Toku immediately. I was able to wear him down eventually, mostly due to me having cannons and cavalary. But it was a bloody war, during which the whole continent pretty much stagnated. At 1700 AD Toku still has ~10 cities but I have 20. I think the game is won, even though he has infantry now (and I'm still 15 turns away from tanks). I will finish it on the weekend and upload saves etc.
HodorHodor
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2011
- Messages
- 8
I won. It was a long game which required massing cavs, infs and then tanks for ages. After attacking Toku and bringing him down to 8 cities, Boudica declared free of him and I could vasall her. Shortly after that, Toku surrendered. I was still missing 0.5% of land mass though, so I had to attack Ramsses, who had only 6 cities though. I took 4 of those in the first turn of the war and one turn later it was over.
Toku surrenders:
You probably can no longer lose with such a production pearl (mining alone give 27 base-prod!) [although I forgot to build the courthouse...
]
Victory!
Augustus Caesar:
Concluding thoughts: an interesting game, never played Isa. Mylene's tricks with teching Music straight away and massing specialists in the first GA helped alot. Still, I was rather late at lib (as his game shows), if I would have been there earlier I could have taken Mansa directly instead of Mao I guess, which would have made things faster. Still, it was fun, Conqus are very strong, and Cavs are very strong until tanks come about. Didnt play very concentrated in the second half, I'm sure a victory 100 years earlier would have been possible with planning the wars more carefully.
I'm still puzzeled which leader had which personality. Toku might have been Charlemagne (Vassalage as favourite Civic), Mansa eventually Darius or Willy? Ramses might have been one of the American Leaders with Universal Suffrage as favourite Civic. Mehmed was Saladin probably?
Toku surrenders:
Spoiler :
You probably can no longer lose with such a production pearl (mining alone give 27 base-prod!) [although I forgot to build the courthouse...
]Spoiler :
Victory!
Spoiler :
Augustus Caesar:
Spoiler :
Concluding thoughts: an interesting game, never played Isa. Mylene's tricks with teching Music straight away and massing specialists in the first GA helped alot. Still, I was rather late at lib (as his game shows), if I would have been there earlier I could have taken Mansa directly instead of Mao I guess, which would have made things faster. Still, it was fun, Conqus are very strong, and Cavs are very strong until tanks come about. Didnt play very concentrated in the second half, I'm sure a victory 100 years earlier would have been possible with planning the wars more carefully.
I'm still puzzeled which leader had which personality. Toku might have been Charlemagne (Vassalage as favourite Civic), Mansa eventually Darius or Willy? Ramses might have been one of the American Leaders with Universal Suffrage as favourite Civic. Mehmed was Saladin probably?
Attachments
GenerallyGreat
Prince
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2009
- Messages
- 359
Sexy HE city.
Okay where was i...ooh yea, Conqs yay.
Toku did DoW on Mansa, no surprise here. He waited till Samurais, smart move.
Yet it wasn't quiet enough to take Djenne, heavy fortified on a hill:
My cities went into heavy whipping mode, some turns later i move into position:
...leading to a first captured small city, and a fork attack next turn:
I ignore Kumbi Saleh (on a hill as well), and capture Gao:
The main goal is Timbuktu with all it's shiny wonders.
It's not on a hill, but i'll concentrate all forces on it for now.
More to come soon.
Toku did DoW on Mansa, no surprise here. He waited till Samurais, smart move.
Yet it wasn't quiet enough to take Djenne, heavy fortified on a hill:
Spoiler :
My cities went into heavy whipping mode, some turns later i move into position:
Spoiler :
...leading to a first captured small city, and a fork attack next turn:
Spoiler :
I ignore Kumbi Saleh (on a hill as well), and capture Gao:
Spoiler :
The main goal is Timbuktu with all it's shiny wonders.
It's not on a hill, but i'll concentrate all forces on it for now.
More to come soon.
A few turns and healing up later, Timbu falls..Jackpot? ~~
Yay, Police State.
I prepare a second stack for another tasty hill city:
Niani is captured, and my units swarm out to threaten Kumbi..
Boudi declares war on Toku
Kumbi is captured, i take a peek at Walata..
Mansa is pretty much done, the tech screen:
...shows this game is a winner.
Point leader Rams only has 9 cities, Toku and Boudi are fighting, Mao is rather weak.
Thou i will play it out soon, could be a good score. J/K i don't care about that
Iam left bowing to the mighty Conquistadors once again, the best UU in the game.
Amazing how they win vs. fortified Pikes and Maces on hill cities, without spy revolts.
Spoiler :
Yay, Police State.
I prepare a second stack for another tasty hill city:
Spoiler :
Niani is captured, and my units swarm out to threaten Kumbi..
Spoiler :
Boudi declares war on Toku
Kumbi is captured, i take a peek at Walata..
Spoiler :
Mansa is pretty much done, the tech screen:
Spoiler :
...shows this game is a winner.
Point leader Rams only has 9 cities, Toku and Boudi are fighting, Mao is rather weak.
Thou i will play it out soon, could be a good score. J/K i don't care about that
Iam left bowing to the mighty Conquistadors once again, the best UU in the game.
Amazing how they win vs. fortified Pikes and Maces on hill cities, without spy revolts.
Dirk1302
Deity
I'd love to read about this, unfortunately i'm still planning to play it myself, can't even update my own Justinian game atm . All in good time, either i play it or i read how it went and i comment on it in good time.
vranasm
Deity
@My
yeah not really sure why Conquists are not better ranked in UU's given that cuirs is the "latest fotm" of civ iv ;-). I guess Izy is to everyone somewhat creepy leader ;-).
How they fare against WE's? Lately I find that the stop are not pikes, but more WE's, so bad attrition going against them. Maybe that's because anti-mounti is 3rd promotion, but shock is 2nd promotion.
yeah not really sure why Conquists are not better ranked in UU's given that cuirs is the "latest fotm" of civ iv ;-). I guess Izy is to everyone somewhat creepy leader ;-).
How they fare against WE's? Lately I find that the stop are not pikes, but more WE's, so bad attrition going against them. Maybe that's because anti-mounti is 3rd promotion, but shock is 2nd promotion.
@Vran the most common odds vs. Jumbos are ~65% winning, assuming you attack with str2.
Reasonable defenders, but they don't get the bonuses in cities.
Isa has a very strong trait combo, EXP makes for a faster start and SPI is overall great.
Not sure why she is considered a crappy leader, Mysticism and fishing are not the best starting techs, but both are not completely useless.
Reasonable defenders, but they don't get the bonuses in cities.
Isa has a very strong trait combo, EXP makes for a faster start and SPI is overall great.
Not sure why she is considered a crappy leader, Mysticism and fishing are not the best starting techs, but both are not completely useless.
Isa is my favourite leader... well, if i'm talking about why she isn't ranked higher, i'm probably not telling you something you don't know, but what the heck, maybe someone who's not that deep into the game might read it
a) as you said, starting techs... as you're a deityplayer yourself, you know that agri/wheel is way superior. I've found myself teching Archery rather often with Isa, unless you get lucky with horses in BFC or riverside Copper etc... and with the need to tech ALL the useful starting techs by yourself, that's a bummer.
b) Early UU/UB is generally ranked higher than later ones. The Mall is a good UB if you look at the raw numbers, but it's terrible because it comes so freakin' late. Having a decent UU/UB for the time when it counts (earlygame) is what you want.
Still, i LOVE her traits, UU and UB. My two most favourite traits and UB/UU for exactly the timeframe and for the exact units i tend to use the most. Just lovely
Well, WE's aren't that common compared to pikes, not every leader has Ivory. Secondly, pikes receive defensive bonuses. The reason WE's are that painful is that they're rather high promoted often enough through stables, while you might have fights vs. pikes that only have been promoted to strength 1. That additional strength 2 helps the WE over a jump point afaik.
Still, there's alot more stuff roaming around than only pikes and WEs, Maces are pretty annoying inside high-culture-cities aswell. With Conquistadors, roughly 30% of the units you'll face are pretty much a non-issue, so that's awesome... Isa's great.
a) as you said, starting techs... as you're a deityplayer yourself, you know that agri/wheel is way superior. I've found myself teching Archery rather often with Isa, unless you get lucky with horses in BFC or riverside Copper etc... and with the need to tech ALL the useful starting techs by yourself, that's a bummer.
b) Early UU/UB is generally ranked higher than later ones. The Mall is a good UB if you look at the raw numbers, but it's terrible because it comes so freakin' late. Having a decent UU/UB for the time when it counts (earlygame) is what you want.
Still, i LOVE her traits, UU and UB. My two most favourite traits and UB/UU for exactly the timeframe and for the exact units i tend to use the most. Just lovely
Well, WE's aren't that common compared to pikes, not every leader has Ivory. Secondly, pikes receive defensive bonuses. The reason WE's are that painful is that they're rather high promoted often enough through stables, while you might have fights vs. pikes that only have been promoted to strength 1. That additional strength 2 helps the WE over a jump point afaik.
Still, there's alot more stuff roaming around than only pikes and WEs, Maces are pretty annoying inside high-culture-cities aswell. With Conquistadors, roughly 30% of the units you'll face are pretty much a non-issue, so that's awesome... Isa's great.
Yip Ahcos, if Pigs/Sheep/Cow are the food ressources, it's a tough start with no Agri/hunting.
Isa relies on good spawn busting/early warriors a lot, a faster built exp worker helps with that.
But if she had good starting techs too (in MP mysticism is nice thou for an early religion), she would be almost as OPed as HC. At least in my opinion
Not for peoples who don't use Curs frequently, but on Deity it's pretty much the most used breakout unit.
Isa relies on good spawn busting/early warriors a lot, a faster built exp worker helps with that.
But if she had good starting techs too (in MP mysticism is nice thou for an early religion), she would be almost as OPed as HC. At least in my opinion
Not for peoples who don't use Curs frequently, but on Deity it's pretty much the most used breakout unit.
HC's not OPed, he's broken With better starting techs, Isa'd be a top tier leader in everyone's book, but i don't think she'd be close to the imbaness of HC. As much as i love her traits and UU/UB, it's hard to compare anything to the Quechua. You're probably right about that she'd be ranked #2 behind HC, though... still an awesome leader. Maybe i should've played your start myself, doh 8[
With better starting techs, Isa'd be a top tier leader in everyone's book, but i don't think she'd be close to the imbaness of HC. As much as i love her traits and UU/UB, it's hard to compare anything to the Quechua. You're probably right about that she'd be ranked #2 behind HC, though... still an awesome leader. Maybe i should've played your start myself, doh 8[
Nice to see you enjoying a civ 4 game My!! Makes a change.
Looking good for the win here. 6 cities and conquistadors looking strong! You truly take whipping to a new extreme. What are 6 cities but population to whip away! Although perhaps you lucked out on horse a bit. Would of put a stop to your stride if you couldn't trade for it.
I need to get back into civ 4 more. I can't remember the last game I actually completed. Perhaps i lack focus.
Looking good for the win here. 6 cities and conquistadors looking strong! You truly take whipping to a new extreme. What are 6 cities but population to whip away! Although perhaps you lucked out on horse a bit. Would of put a stop to your stride if you couldn't trade for it.
I need to get back into civ 4 more. I can't remember the last game I actually completed. Perhaps i lack focus.
For the benefit of us mortals who don't play on Deity, can you explain why people use Curs rather than Rifle/Cannon?
Although Mylene described all you need to know in a nutshell, i feel that maybe it's helpful if someone (in this case: me ) gets a little bit more into detail...
Right after Lib, you can have Cuirassiers in many situations. It's a critical point: if you've managed to be ahead of the AI, the best units you might face are Knights/LBs/Muskets/Warelephants/Pikes, all of which you can handle very well with enough # of Cuirassiers. It's just right after Lib when you usually have the technological edge to be ahead of the AI, when you wait the AI era bonuses will kick in and they get better production with better workshops/windmills/watermills (AI relies alot less on whipping, so that's when they start to take off in production), alot better research with things like Free Market or Printing Press and so on ... If you do not use that edge right when it occurs, you might find yourself in a situation where you actually can't break out without one AI running away with the game.
When you go for Cannons/Rifles, it's much more likely you'll face a much bigger powerhouse. You'll face endless swarms of Cavalery flanking your cannons, you'll see Grenadiers taking out your Rifles, you'll see Airships weakening your top defenders and all the annoying bs like Privateers or maybe even Machine Guns (and you really don't want to face those with only Cannons/Rifles...).
OTOH, you're pretty save to avoid all that stuff with Cuirassiers. Long story short, they usually come in a timeframe when you're mostly facing Medieval units, while you're going on rampage with Renaissance units, while you can't gurantee that with Rifles/Cannons at all.
... and the faster you move and the faster you reach your target, the less time there is for the AI to send/whip reinforcements. You'll also be able to react to counterattacks more flexible, and your own reinforcements will be at the frontline alot faster. Less time needed for wars directly translates into less time for the AI to maybe reach key techs for either bribing someone else in or to finally field useful troops.
Ones in a while you might think about using Cannons with drafted Muskets; although that might work, when the AI decides to go for Cuirassiers itself you'll be flanked to death, i promise you that OTOH, most of the direct Cuirassier-counterunits can be easily dealt with by promoting your units according to what you're facing. That's basicly impossible with Muskets/Cannons, no matter how many Pikes you'll bring along those cuirassiers will flank the livin' hell out of you.
Finally something Mylene didn't mention: 2-movement-units are way more elegant and fun than those slow-grinding cannons.
) gets a little bit more into detail...Right after Lib, you can have Cuirassiers in many situations. It's a critical point: if you've managed to be ahead of the AI, the best units you might face are Knights/LBs/Muskets/Warelephants/Pikes, all of which you can handle very well with enough # of Cuirassiers. It's just right after Lib when you usually have the technological edge to be ahead of the AI, when you wait the AI era bonuses will kick in and they get better production with better workshops/windmills/watermills (AI relies alot less on whipping, so that's when they start to take off in production), alot better research with things like Free Market or Printing Press and so on ... If you do not use that edge right when it occurs, you might find yourself in a situation where you actually can't break out without one AI running away with the game.
When you go for Cannons/Rifles, it's much more likely you'll face a much bigger powerhouse. You'll face endless swarms of Cavalery flanking your cannons, you'll see Grenadiers taking out your Rifles, you'll see Airships weakening your top defenders and all the annoying bs like Privateers or maybe even Machine Guns (and you really don't want to face those with only Cannons/Rifles...).
OTOH, you're pretty save to avoid all that stuff with Cuirassiers. Long story short, they usually come in a timeframe when you're mostly facing Medieval units, while you're going on rampage with Renaissance units, while you can't gurantee that with Rifles/Cannons at all.
... and the faster you move and the faster you reach your target, the less time there is for the AI to send/whip reinforcements. You'll also be able to react to counterattacks more flexible, and your own reinforcements will be at the frontline alot faster. Less time needed for wars directly translates into less time for the AI to maybe reach key techs for either bribing someone else in or to finally field useful troops.
Ones in a while you might think about using Cannons with drafted Muskets; although that might work, when the AI decides to go for Cuirassiers itself you'll be flanked to death, i promise you that
OTOH, most of the direct Cuirassier-counterunits can be easily dealt with by promoting your units according to what you're facing. That's basicly impossible with Muskets/Cannons, no matter how many Pikes you'll bring along those cuirassiers will flank the livin' hell out of you. Finally something Mylene didn't mention: 2-movement-units are way more elegant and fun than those slow-grinding cannons.
