1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

[BNW] Turn 197 Cultural Victory (Deity)

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Stories & Let's Plays' started by Shark Diver, Dec 26, 2020.

  1. Shark Diver

    Shark Diver King

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2013
    Messages:
    861
    Location:
    San Diego (for now)
    Hi all,

    I've been away from these boards for a few years, but got back into Civ5 in 2020 as I found myself somehow with some extra free time (that's supposed to be dry humor). Some of the veterans of this board may remember me from a few years back, so please say hello if you see this post. I used to enjoy these boards and some of the challenges and might get back into participating on these boards again if there's some fun to be had. This site has changed a bit since I was last here, so feel free to give any advice on the tools that will help my storytelling.

    Anyways, I just finished one of those games where literally everything went right, and I thought I'd share the storyline. I think I can remember how to share screen shots (please don't make fun of my city names).

    I have been working on a Cultural Victory Strategy that I'll just call the Greedy Strategy for lack of a better name (insert suggestions here). It entails a number of very greedy gambits to work out, but is really fun if executed. It's gotten me several CV's of less than 220 turns, but this particular game was my first CV in under 200 turns. I probably could have shaved ~5 turns if I had managed my Archeologists betters (more on that later).

    I started out this post as being an introductory telling of a story. As I was writing it, very slowly I might add, I started thinking of it as more of a How-To guide for this Greedy Strategy. This is why I keep switching from 1st person to 2nd person as I hopped back and forth across the timeline to add important details.

    I'll put in Bold the turning points for this strategy.

    I was playing as my favorite Civ; The Mighty Incas. Settings were Pangea/Deity/Standard/Standard/Raging Barbs.

    I got the much desired desert/hills start with plenty of mountain ranges for both terrace farms and defense.

    I settled on T2 on Silver/River/Mountain tile (hello Observatory) and got a pop ruin on the same turn so I'm off to the races. Yes, I'm going for Petra. My plan is for a Cultural Victory from the get-go, which means I'll be building a lot of Wonders. My intended build order was: scout/scout/shrine/settler/settler/settler.
    Screen Shot 2020-12-26 at 3.18.45 PM.png


    Plenty of ruins early game. I believe the order was: Pop Ruin, Warrior Upgrade, Culture, Pop Ruin, Writing,(very big deal for the strategy I was trying to employ as I try to rush 4 settlers and rush Libraries so I can build National College before T90) and then a 4th Pop Ruin by T15. Second Tech researched was Mining, and then beeline for Petra. This is a legendary start:
    Screen Shot 2020-12-26 at 3.15.19 PM.png

    I met Pacal very early, which is a great sign. I'll always go for a worker steal (or 2 or 3) from the Mayans for several reasons. A. They aren't very strong early game militarily and are also quick to make peace and offer Friendship. B. They are a big competitor for some of my favorite Wonders (Oracle, Great Mosque) so I like to set them back as far as possible. I got my second Mayan Worker on T17 but was forced to make peace to save my spearman and get him back to defend Settlers from Barbs (they are raging very hard).
    Screen Shot 2020-12-26 at 3.15.49 PM.png

    I ran into 2 early Religious CS, and was able to pick first Pantheon and also to skip the Shrine build and go straight to Settlers as a 4-pop. I considered Desert Folklore, but since I'm going Culture and was off to a quick start, I was confident I could get first religion with Religious Idols. I've already found 6-7 Silver tiles in good City locations, including another I could settle on.

    I took my first Settler North because there was a good river spot that the Mayans might go after. 2nd Settler goes South to settle on a Silver/Mountain/River tile and 4th went to Settle right next to KSM. There are plenty of future Terrace Farm tiles in cities 1, 3, and 4. I had all 4 cities down by t42 (which isn't quite a personal record, but it's close). You can see that I only have one exposed border, to the East with the malleable Mayans, so I'm not going to have to waste much time on building a military. There are also a couple of nearby Military CS with decent units (Kris Swordsman), so I'm not worried about war. The big issue now is that I have no coastal cities, so I'll be settling a 5th City right around National College time (I've got a very good gold start going, so I'm expecting to have enough to buy a Library for 400 so as not to slow the National College down). The KSM City will be building the 5th Settler.
    Screen Shot 2020-12-26 at 3.42.24 PM.png

    Build Orders:

    Capital: (After settlers) Granary, Library, Watermill. I had a few turns before Petra so I went ahead and built my Shrine.

    City 2: Caravan (to get my science rolling and make Pacal like me), Library, Granary, Watermill
    City 3: Library, Granary, Watermill.
    City 4: (KSM City) Granary, Slinger, Library, Settler

    Once I got my second Silver on line, I used it to bribe the Mayans' neighbor Songhai to war them (cost: 1 Silver and 1 GP.) I hadn't done enough damage to the Mayans to prevent them from Wonder Mongering, so I got someone else to do that for me. They'd fight a perfect useless war (no cities taken) for another ~50 turns, so Pacal was not a concern from that point onward. They befriended me the turn after I sent my Caravan to them.

    My Scout had met Sweden, and their capital had a very sweet Petra setup. This simply won't do. Someone must War the Swedes early on to distract them from this course, and I certainly didn't want to do it as I hoped to someday get their great person friendship bonus. On the next turn I meet Egypt, and they willingly Declare war on the Swedes for the low low price of 1 Silver, 6GP and 2 Horsies.

    I got the 1st of 3 eventual Worker steals from a nearby CS. This got me up to 5 workers without having to build one, but I wasn't done yet. Barbs are raging everywhere, and I was able to clear a camp and free to Military CS workers early on for instant Allies with 2 adjacent miltary CS. Both started giving me good units (an early Chariot was nice) very early in the game. I'd not be needing to build much military this game, although both Military CS were Hostile, so I'd have to put some effort into keeping them allied all game.

    My Scout then found 2 more ruins (Bronze Working, Scout Upgrade......yup, I had great luck on ruins this game) because somebody forgot to explore the map. These were all West of Sweden. I'd later find out that even further to the East, Shaka had declared early war on Morocco so that's why they didn't explore. The Bronze Working was huge because I had a stash of Iron in my Capital on a non-mountain hill. I generally avoid researching BW early because Iron spoils Terrace Farm tiles, but this time it worked out perfectly as none of the 3 6-iron tiles in my empire were mountain-adjacent (great luck). Having 18 iron in my empire early means I will have plenty of trading power for bribing the AI into continuous war and Open Borders, saving a lot of GP.

    Petra goes up on T68. As you can see, I'm already up to 596 GP, so I'll be able to buy the Library in City #5 while I'm building National College (right after Oracle).
    Screen Shot 2020-12-26 at 4.18.35 PM.png

    Oracle gets built. National College is done on T82, well before my benchmark of t90-100. We won't be teaching Critical Race Theory at this school.

    I send a food caravan to City #5 to get it growing. City #5's Build Order: (buy Trireme). Monument, Granary, Lighthouse (2 fish tiles it wants to grow to early). This city isn't going to be a Powerhouse, but the Coastal Access is useful for exploration since I had to build a late Scout to replace the Upgraded explorer unit. I'll only need the single Trireme for now, as the northern pass is ice blocked. Yes, this is a really good defensive setup.

    I can't delay that National Epic now that I've got early Wonders. I love getting that early Engineer out in Culture games, so I'll even stop working Science Specialists to ensure that happens. I want Great Mosque of Jeannie (for both the extra GE point and the faith booth to make up for the fact that I didn't go Desert Folklore), but am worried that Pacal is beelining Theology. He went full Tradition and doesn't have Piety showing yet. Also, I'd met Polynesia and Kammy dogpiled on Pacal with no urging from me, so I'm thinking I can get the Mosque. I've already opened Piety myself after completing Tradition thanks to Oracle. It really is a powerful early Wonder if used right, and I'm off to a great culture start already so I have my eyes set on Sacred Sites, which I'd get very early despite opening Rationalism first and Secularism. I hate skipping on Sacred Sites for two whole policies, but I need to force my science because I have 5 cities (one late) and I need to reach Radio before the 2nd World Congress so I can propose International Games. I'm doing very well with CS so I'm going to control the Congress all game long if I can reach Printing Press first.

    Oh yes, I'm going for Pisa and Globe, then straight to Sistine. If I time this right with the Great Engineer, I'll be able GE at lest two of those highly contested Wonders.

    Just in time for Terrace Farms I now have 7 workers from freeing a couple of AI workers from Barbs. I'll have my roads built (and turn GP positive again) right as Construction is researched. This is the hope when I use Raging Barbarians in the setting. I assume I can handle whatever the Barbs throw at me and they can set back the AI quite a bit while also giving me free workers.

    My tech path after Mathematics was: Masonry, Construction (get those terrace farms) then Horseback Riding (I've got a lot of pasture resources and I love early Stables in Petra cities with Sheep on Desert. Then it's off to Theology and the Mosk. If I don't think I can get the Mosk, I'll go to Civil Service first, and I considered going for Chicken Itza as I'm off to a good start and the AI is all at war so I might be able to get it, but nahhhh, I want the Mosk for the GE point.......I'm going to Wonder-whore all game.

    I now beeline Education, then Workshops, then Printing Press. I did time Sailing and Optics to help out City #5, but those were just 1 and 2 turn diversions, and I'm being very greedy this game.

    AI's are all at war, and none seem to be making much progress. I think Shaka had captured one City from Morocco, but the terrain has a lot of mountains and peninsulas (chokepoints everywhere), so this is a perfect storm. Everybody likes me and everyone hates each other. Kammy has befriended me, as has Maya and Songhai. Sweden would follow suit just in time for Guilds, so now I'm cranking out the Great Persons.

    I should say everyone besides Shaka likes me. I made the mistake of denouncing him for a CS quest and he didn't even grant me an embassy for another 100+ turns. Open borders came even later, which slowed down my exploration a bit, although this didn't end up being a problem. The problem was that he had a lot of extra Cotton and Cocoa, which I needed for King days and CS quests, and there was little I could do to get him to forgive me. This was a setback.

    I prioritized Universities in every city and even get 2 built in secondary cities prior to workshops. I always stop everything in every city for workshops, as getting the early Ironworks is really powerful for the upcoming era, especially in a Petra city. I'll be the production leader from that point on, which means I'll win World's Fair and International Games without having to use the shrine exploit. It's been 100's of games since I haven't won either of those, ever since I learned to prioritize growth and got better at my infrastructure game (I learned which buildings were real priorities and which were luxuries).

    After workshops, I now have 2 food Caravans and 1 production Caravan to City #5, so it is catching up pretty quickly. As I said earlier, it's never going to be a monster, but it won't slow me down on National Wonders too much and the coastal access was helpful, if not necessary. I considered just going with 4 cities, but there were too many expansionist AI's in this game, and the last thing I wanted was for Shaka to plant a city on my doorstep and have Impi's running around my empire pillaging. My military is strong enough thanks to Military CS's (Hello Kris Swordsmen.....I got 2, but never got to find out their specialty as no Barbs ever appeared). That's a long winded way of saying I think 5 cities was the correct decision for strategic reasons, and the rest of my empire was strong enough to compensate for the extra city penalties.

    At the end of the game, I rated my Capital an A (you need a Natural Wonder in the cap to get an A+ on my scale). Cities 2 and 3 were solid B+, City 4 was a B- (lack of river cost it growth even with Terrace Farms and I could never spare a Caravan to help it out. Because it had KSM, it was very productive, but I had to spend a lot of GP to manage it's tiles to get it to grow. City #5 was a solid C, which I can live with.

    Turn 136 and I've completed all of my midgame Wonders. You can't see Sistine on this screenshot, but I wanted you to see that Globe was already filled with GW's. I was able to build Writer's and Artists Guilds early in my Cap as it had plenty of growth and I knew I was going to have to stop working Great Scientists for a few turns to time the Great Engineer coming out first. My culture game was going well. I also neglected to mention that I'd slipped in a quick 3-4 turn Hanging Gardens post-Petra to satisfy 2 CS quests. There were 2 other Tradition Civs so I don't normally expect to get HG, which I don't prioritize, but with all the useless wars going on, apparently the AI didn't have time for Wonders.....leaving them all for meeeeeee!!!
    Screen Shot 2020-12-26 at 5.29.32 PM.png

    Getting HG also gets my GP generation going sooner than normal, as the Garden in my Capital often gets delayed by higher priority buildings at that stage of the game. Every little boost to GP generation helps when you're playing this strategy.......is there a name for this strategy?

    Anyways, I detoured to Astronomy because I have 3 Observatory cities, including my kick-a$$ Capital. I haven't done the math, but I'm pretty sure this detour gets me to Radio faster that a straight beeline as those key mid-game technologies are painfully slow at this point in the game, and as I mentioned before, you have to hit Radio prior to the 2nd Congress. This is imperative for a fast Culture Victory under this strategy. If you don't accomplish that, it'll delay victory by another 20-30 turns, especially if there's a powerful AI opponent who has a strong Culture Game and is difficult to reach with with Musicians. My science is now kicking A$$!

    I now beeline to Radio while filling in the missing pieces in all Cities. My focus is on starting to dominate the CS game, as I've got plenty of units and gold, and I'm going to win every culture and religious quest. The CS had very easy quests all game, and there were plenty of Food CS which really boosted empire growth. There were only 2 Cultural CS in the game, but I would soon use my spies to take over both of them and would never relinquish those alliances. This was not a very competitive CS game, as the AI was busy fighting each other ineffectively to build any infrastructure. There are also advantages to having the whole world at war as there are more resources for you to trade for, which helps with CS quests and King demands. I will make early war for the AI an even bigger priority in all of my games going forward, as this strategy was very effective in this game. I'd never executed AI management as well as I did this game, and most expert players should understand this has a huge luck factor. As I've said, almost every lucky break went my way this game. It was a once-in-a-lifetime exhibit of the tails of the standard distribution curve.

    I was able to hard build both Porcelain Tower and Taj Majal. I was the first to Architecture, and I was checking AI tech progress diligently. I wanted to time the Taj GA to overlap with the World's Fair (luv that extra production that allows me to get to 800+ hammers and then start in on other important buildings like factories and finishing Public Schools). I built Taj with 5 turns to go before WF, so this worked out perfectly. That Porcelain Scientist is needed to bulb through Electricity before the 2nd Congress (as a reminder, you can't propose International Games until you have researched Radio. THIS IS THE KEY POINT IN THE ENTIRE STRATEGY. IF YOU CAN EXECUTE THIS, YOU ARE GOING TO WIN YOUR GAME, IT'S JUST A MATTER OF HOW QUICKLY. Because I got the Engineer and delayed my first Scientist (which I planted on my Cap's horsies) it's almost impossible to have the 2nd Scientist pop in time for this bulb. That scientist is the reason to build PT, not the Research Agreement boost (although I had RA's this game, the low science AI made them less effective than normal).

    Inflection Point: I timed this almost perfectly. You can see that Carl Frederich Glauss, notorious Great Scientist, is about to bulb through Electronics. Perfect timing would have been with only 1 turn of research remaining, unless the game changed how the overflow dynamic works (please tell me if this is the case, as I've been too intellectually lazy to do the math and have just assumed that exploit was still in play). Anyways, I'll bulb Frau Glauss, use the free tech on Radio, then found Freedom. It's imperative that my culture give me my "Longer Golden Ages" 2nd tier Freedom tenant, right as my Taj Majal Golden Age ends and prior to the World's Fair ending. The free Golden Age point boost from winning the Fair will usually put you into a new Golden Age, and you want that policy in place so you get the extra 5 Golden Age turns in while under WF 2x Culture boost as you are powering through Aesthetics Policies right now. It is imperative that you stay in a Golden Age every turn for the rest of the game. You need the Culture boost for this strategy to work it's best.
    Screen Shot 2020-12-26 at 6.18.36 PM.png

    The reason you need to be in Golden Age is that you'll be racing to build Archeologists and the key final Culture buildings, all while hopefully getting your Factories and Public Schools built. In this game, I was able to have my Capital finish it's Public School on the turn before World's Fair started.

    Inflection Point: I took Freedom as the 1st Ideology and grabbed the Food and Great Person Policies. I'll have Longer Golden Ages in a turn or two.

    Because I had such a huge production advantage, I was able to get my 800+ hammers and then switch production in all cities to things like those mentioned above. On this turn where the World's Fair ended, I was finishing Hermitage in my Capital as the WF finalized. I'm ok with not rushing the WF once I know I've won (800+ will almost always win it, but 900 has never failed me) because my culture is growing every single turn and I want to maximize the WF Culture bonus.

    At T56, my Social Policies look like this: I was able to circle back and get Sacred Sites and am now poised to make a swift run through Aesthetics. Below is a textbook and on time target Social Policy path for the Greedy Strategy. I've had better Culture games where I had Piety completed by now, but this game was not quite perfect as it was good, but not great at Culture. As WF ends, I get my normally earned new Policy plus the WF bonus Policy and used them to enter Aesthetics and boost my Culture at this critical time. I'm assured of never being out of Golden Age again (I haven't talked much about this but most of my cities have been in King Days the majority of the time). I'll finish Aesthetics, finish the Freedom pyramid. Normally, with this strategy, I'd have then finished off the Rationalism science-boosting Policies, then circled back to finish Piety to get those lovely Great Prophet tiles, but this game ended far before that came into play.

    Some benchmarks:
    -Science should be ~450 right now - this game I'm at 566
    -GP/turn should be ~100 - this game I'm at 125
    -CPT should be ~!500 - I'm at 619
    -Faith should be ~100/turn - I'm at 133.

    This is a very well-rounded empire at this point that is going to impose its will on the world the rest of this game.

    Since this is getting a bit long-winded, I'm going to break off the narrative for now. I think anyone who has read this far probably understands the game well enough to understand how this game ends. It's really only a question of time at this point. There are some really fun twists and turns in the rest of this narrative, so I will finish tomorrow, regardless of if I get any positive feedback

    A good friend who is right at the cusp of being a Deity player asked me to make some instructional videos. I don't think I'm quite ready for that, but it would be run if I had the time. Instead, inspired by my friend, I decided to write this freakin novel. It's my hope that at least a few will read this and thus increase their enjoyment of this wonderful game of Civ5 BNW. If this post inspires some fun discussion, I'll be pleased.

    Anyways, it's been fun getting back into this wonderful game and I'm pleased to have decided to stick my rather blunt toe back into the waters of this community. I'm hoping the quality of posters on this forum remains as high as I remember.

    Cheers.
     
    Knightfall likes this.
  2. Shark Diver

    Shark Diver King

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2013
    Messages:
    861
    Location:
    San Diego (for now)
    Do you think I should have gone Desert Folklore? If so, why? Any other suggestions?
     
    Knightfall likes this.
  3. Shark Diver

    Shark Diver King

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2013
    Messages:
    861
    Location:
    San Diego (for now)
    I forgot to mention that I got Cathedrals and Spreads Faster after getting Pagodas and Tithe. That's why I was going Sacred Sites and Cathedrals are a big part of this strategy although building the 16+ Archeologists and completing their excavations ASAP is a key part of this strategy. I'll discuss this later, but I did a mediocre job of that this game, likely due to Christmas day eggnog.
     
    Knightfall likes this.
  4. Shark Diver

    Shark Diver King

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2013
    Messages:
    861
    Location:
    San Diego (for now)
    Oh, I neglected to post this screenshot of my Social policies as I left off the story. Here ya go:

    Screen Shot 2020-12-26 at 7.57.02 PM.png
     
    Knightfall likes this.
  5. Shark Diver

    Shark Diver King

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2013
    Messages:
    861
    Location:
    San Diego (for now)
    Endgame: I'll try to be a bit more concise to finish up this narrative. I re-read my initial entry and apologize for a bit of skipping around. As I said, I wrote this up in stages and kept jumping around.

    When we left off, I was just getting ready to dominate the World's Fair. With a dominant Hammer lead, this was a foregone conclusion. From a tech standpoint, I next grabbed Navigation and Archeology. Checking everyone's tech, only one other Civ had even reached the Industrial Era (and I'm already in Modern), so I knew I'd have a good shot at the 16 Archeologists. The goal here is to have all cities done with WF and/or any other important buildings so they can focus on mass building Archeologists, Museums, and Broadcast Towers. In this screenshot you can see a couple of cities putting in a last turn into WF while the Cap is off building its Hydro.
    Screen Shot 2020-12-27 at 8.14.19 AM.png

    As I bulbed Electricity, I got Industrialization on the following turn. I had both Aluminum and Coal online already (good luck) so I purchased my factory in the Capital so I could work the GE slots and rush out the important GE for the upcoming Statue of Liberty bulb. If I can get a natural GE for that, instead of secondary city GS's, I don't have to spend the 1000 or 1500 faith for that GE, which will let me purchase Musicians and/or any needed Artists or Writers at key moments to keep Golden Ages going and/or push my Social Policies through Aesthetics and the Culture boosting parts of Freedom.

    This was executed pretty well this game and I have Antiquity Sites pop up in a lot of easily accessible locations (very little digging in other Civ's territories would be needed). Because I had a surplus of units, I was able to send those units to stand on the Sites while building the Archeologists.

    As I mentioned earlier, I screwed up my Archeologists destinations a bit, even with all of the units holding down the spots. I probably cost myself ~ 5 turns in the victory by screwing this up. I also made the mistake of building 17 Archeologists instead of 16. Normally, I'd just plant the last one in my own lands for a Historical Landmark, but this game I got greedy. I opened Exploration so I could build Louvre and built one more Archeologist. I normally don't build Louvre, but was able to knock it out in my Cap in 3 turns and immediately get its theming bonuses online. Since I'd soon finish Aesthetics, that +8 tourism likely contributed quite a bit to my fast finish time, so maybe I'll try to incorporate this build into my plans in future games. It did mean I was unable to get Sistine's theming bonus, but I think it worked well this game. If I had an even better faith game, I might have been able to theme them all, but my faith needed to be reserved for purchasing Musicians the turn International Games was won.

    After Archeology, I bulbed a Scientist to grab Chemistry and Fertilizer to really boost my cities production and growth. I've also been purchasing Hydro Plants and Factories in every city, as my GPT was strong and I didn't have to spend any on keeping CS alliances. The only City that build a production-boosting building was the Capital, which did a 1-turn Hydro Plant after a GE bulb for Eiffel Tower and Broadway. The fact that I was able to build Sistine and Globe instead of using a GE gave me an extra GE for these builds, which got both online earlier than usual and preserved faith for the future Musician purchases.

    The 3 Civs that were putting up the most Tourism resistance were Polynesia, Zulu, and Mayans. The first 2 were adjacent to me (I built roads to their territory to help the future Musician bombs), and the only reason Shaka was so resistant was because it took me forever to get Open Borders from them. A trade route to them helped, as they had dropped a new city within range of my Caravans.
    Screen Shot 2020-12-27 at 8.20.22 AM.png
    Screen Shot 2020-12-27 at 8.20.49 AM.png

    So this game is already in hand and its just a matter of whether I can beat my previous record of a t206 Culture victory. I detoured to grab Military Science instead of Beelining Industrial Parts. Brandenburg Gate is a luxury Wonder as I didn't anticipate needing super-ugraded bombers this game, so that was a mistake.

    After a GE bulb for Statue of Liberty, I grabbed Refrigeration and Plastics. I burned 1000 Faith to GE Cristo, which may have been a mistake, but it allowed me to time my completion of the Freedom pyramid right at IG games was completed. International Games was a slam dunk.

    My raw Tourism was so strong, and the AI Culture was so weak, that I never even got my Hotels built before it was all over. I saved my Musician purchases for the day IG ended, but perhaps could have bought them a few turns sooner and ended the game a turn or two more quickly. I got a bit lazy on doing the math, so I don't know for sure.

    Had the game gone longer, I'd have been beelining towards Airports but the game ended far before they were needed.

    Here's a few screenshots of the final empire:

    I didn't even get all of my Culture buildings online. You can also see my workers have already improved all tiles and are positioned to start building Railroads.

    Screen Shot 2020-12-27 at 8.38.54 AM.png

    Sistine isn't filled with Artists as I just didn't have quite enough faith to buy a couple more. I guess I could have built Uffizi for the free Artist......

    Screen Shot 2020-12-27 at 8.39.37 AM.png

    As I mentioned, the quick victory was partly due to weak AI resistance as opposed to my overwhelming tourism. I'd like to think my management of the AI wars contributed to this, but obviously a bit of luck was involved.

    Screen Shot 2020-12-27 at 8.41.13 AM.png

    I was only 3rd in GDP, but was otherwise dominant. Note the 843 Science/turn. This is an exceptionally high total for me at this turn. I'd have had my Research Labs up in a few more turns, but most of this is the result of great Pop growth and 3 Observatories.

    Screen Shot 2020-12-27 at 8.41.29 AM.png

    Note the diversion into Exploration? I'd have had to choose between finishing Piety or filling out the Science producing Policies, depending on where my need was greatest (science vs faith/culture).

    Screen Shot 2020-12-27 at 8.42.20 AM.png

    All cities are holding their own. The Capital is a freakin monster.

    Screen Shot 2020-12-27 at 8.42.42 AM.png

    And I never get tired of seeing the Victory Screen pop up.

    Screen Shot 2020-12-27 at 8.43.37 AM.png

    I hope readers enjoyed this write-up as much as I did. I also hope that there are actual readers, as I have no idea if I posted this in the appropriate place or whether this site still gets much traffic. In the event that there is an audience for this type of write-up, I look forward to questions, comments, and/or suggestions and hope I've adequately explained this game and strategy.

    Cheers.
     
    Knightfall likes this.
  6. Nizef

    Nizef King

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2018
    Messages:
    648
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Finland
    Hi there,
    It looks like execution to perfection to me!. Certainly very insightful and enjoyable reading. Thank you for sharing! Personally I have been elaborating with Tradition&Piety lately and won some games without really "nailing" it. I am sure that this will help me to develop further.

    IMHO this is the right tree for this kind of write-ups. I think others will agree.

    If you are interested in playing shared games, you could (on top of the obvious GotM) visit the thread Enjoyable Deity Games in the Strategy&Tips section. So far we have generated 126 games to try, many of them a little easier than the average Deity game (I am addicted to good starting positions), but there are some rough rides for the experienced player as well.
     
    Knightfall likes this.
  7. Shark Diver

    Shark Diver King

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2013
    Messages:
    861
    Location:
    San Diego (for now)
    Hi,

    Thanks for taking the time to read my post(s) and thank you for replying. It was a very fun game to play and to recap.

    As I mentioned, there was a ton of good luck involved. Most Deity players at a certain level are going to win just about every game, but the element of chance can drastically change the timing and ease of victory.

    As an example, I re-rolled a bunch of games this morning to try to find a similar Petra/Inca start to see if I could beat my new record. The start below was almost equally as strong as the record game, with plenty of growth, production and good resources (not a ton of them, but mining resources are always nice) and a nice city location with Mt Kilamanjaro so you'd think my Culture would be strong. The other 2-3 city locations were also strong, so this is a decent comparison to the record game.

    Screen Shot 2020-12-27 at 2.28.16 PM.png

    As you can see, I took Desert Folklore over Religious Idols because I was 5th Pantheon, even with an 8 faith and a 4 faith CS. I would end up getting 5th religion when I rage quit (you'll laugh when I show you why I rage quit). This massive difference in faith from one game to the other has a dramatic difference in how well my Greedy Strategy works. You can do well without a dominant religion, but it sure does help.

    As you'll see in the next screenshot, I was on t68 when I rage quit when someone else built Petra. I was on pace to finish it at around t75, which is a full 13 turns later than the record game.

    Why was I so much slower with a similar start? I had good early luck on ruins, just not quite as great as last time (I did get my Cap to 4-pop quickly for Settler builds). I also got good early CS quests and befriended 2 Cultural and 1 Food CS early on. I did very well on worker steals, getting 2 from Poland and very easy peace and quick friendship from my main border rival. I got another 2 from a nearby CS, so you'd think I'm having a strong start, right?Well, you'd be partly wrong. The problem was the freakin raging barbs were kicking my a$$ and my Warrior was halfway around the world looking for stray ruins, which is not ideal. I had to stop and build 2 more Slingers (I had 1 Upgraded Scout) just to keep them off my Cap, and they also delayed the Kilamjaro City until the 2nd Settler (There was a camp right where my worker is standing in the screenshot above that I couldn't get past for a number of turns).

    So the luck factor was not on my side this game, despite a strong potential start. I might try to replay this one to see if I can dial up some better luck, but that's not as fun as a new map. Anyways, I would have played this one out even though I didn't get Petra, and I'd probably been able to beat 250 turns for Cultural Victory, but it wasn't going to be a game I shared here. It's the reason I lost out on Petra that made me spit up my water.

    Screen Shot 2020-12-27 at 2.30.24 PM.png

    See the notification that Ghandi build Petra? I have no idea how or why Ghandi would build Petra when he doesn't even have a single freakin desert tile being worked in his whole empire? Take a look. There are none! This should not have been possible, and I've never see the game screw this up before. I've seen some really awful AI Petra cities with as few as 1 desert tile, but I've never seen one build it with zero desert tiles. Sheesh!

    Thanks for the info on the shared games. I'll make my way over to those threads and maybe play a few. I used to really enjoy the Deity Challenges. I'd like to go back and read some of my previous write-ups. I hope I can find them.

    Cheers
     
    Knightfall likes this.
  8. Nizef

    Nizef King

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2018
    Messages:
    648
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Finland
    Yes, winning is by itself not the problem. But going for 4-6 city Tradition (or Liberty) in every game becomes boring after a while. Lately I have tried to develop my understanding of the Piety tree. There are two reasons for me: firstly I think it is not used very much which in itself makes it interesting and secondly it requires more from the player. If I do not finish a game nowadays it is mostly due to the map: having no Coal is very annoying but when the same map has no Aluminium nor Oil, I might loose interest in that particular game.

    Going for a t75 Petra seems like a bold move in my book. I rarely go for it, but I have set a target of t70 at the latest for myself and t68 seems like a perfectly normal finishing time for any AI. As a personal preference I rarely use Pacal in my games (unless he is a conquerable neighbour) because we are targeting the same wonders. Gandhi might be a pain in the midgame (Sistine, LToP, GT, Uffizi) for the same reason. Besides that, Gandhi is more likely to open up Rationalism and thus snatching PorcelainT as well.
     
  9. Shark Diver

    Shark Diver King

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2013
    Messages:
    861
    Location:
    San Diego (for now)
    I use to have the same issue. I generally use a Strategic Balance start, but doesn't that just affect horsies and iron?

    As my game has evolved, I use my spies almost exclusively on CS. By the time the late game resources appear, I'll have at least 5-6 allies no matter who is in the game, which obviously increases my access to those resources. Even then, I've had a few games where I had to wait for 20+ turns for the AI to catch up in tech to get Aluminum from a CS. Coal is usually available for trade much earlier and a good amount of my games are over before oil matters

    Confession: I generally only play promising starts so take my fast finishes with a grain of salt. That's one of the reasons I'm looking forward to playing some of the posted games here. A bit of variety is always nice.
     
  10. Shark Diver

    Shark Diver King

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2013
    Messages:
    861
    Location:
    San Diego (for now)
    Religion is a big part of most of my games, but it's exploring the different ways to get a Cultural Victory that has kept me entertained lately. Since that requires Open Borders, I tend not to war much, unless I decide capturing specialists is the quicker route. Best way to slow down a Cultural giant is to join in on a dogpile on them.

    Regarding Petra.....I agree with you on timing. I make it a priority to have an embassy in every cap so I know who I need to get into war to prevent them building. Scouting early is a focus, and I'll go Writing even if it delays researching Mathematics just to make sure I don't get hosed. That's why the earlier non-desert Petra was so irritating. I had the only other AI with good desert bogged down already. I've got to assume that was just a game glitch.
     
  11. Nizef

    Nizef King

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2018
    Messages:
    648
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Finland
    Then you will love the Enjoyable Deity Games thread. I have founded a religion in almost all available games. I really dislike playing without a religion of my own. It takes away one part of the game entirely.
     
  12. Shark Diver

    Shark Diver King

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2013
    Messages:
    861
    Location:
    San Diego (for now)
    I'd be ok if they made it so every Civ can get a religion eventually, no matter how rinky dink. You could be 8th to found and still take Amish-ism (or whatever that's called). Your Follower could allow you to raise barns at 2x speed. I'm kidding, but it's ridiculous when you have a strong religious start but don't get a prophet because the AI is insane.

    Well I am interested in trying some of those games. Could you please point me to a guide as to how to download those saved games and then upload into Steam? I used to know how to do this, but it's been a few years.
     
  13. Nizef

    Nizef King

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2018
    Messages:
    648
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Finland
    Downloading is quite straight forward: 1. As with GotM, go to the game in the thread you want to download, 2. Right click on the save-file and 3. Use the Save as function. By doing so, it should automatically appear in your directory for saved games and 4. Start the game from your in-game Load Game option. That is at least how I go about it, maybe more "technical" persons can comment as well.
     
  14. vadalaz

    vadalaz Emperor

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    Messages:
    1,049
    Nice game and good read!

    The overflow exploit was patched in October 2014:
    "Fixed tech overflow bug that could allow a user to get free tech each turn for multiple turns. The size of the maximum allowable science overflow is now set at 5 turns of science OR the unmodified cost of the last tech researched, whichever is larger."

    It's a questionable fix, as it doesn't really address the underlying issue with the game code - the exploit is still in the game, but you can't abuse it. What's worse is that now you can actually lose beakers if your science overflow exceeds the limit. So you have to be careful with your bulbs, especially when using multiple GSs on the same turn.

    Early-game culture vs late-game faith... Tough decision. I don't think there's a wrong choice here. I love maps that have at least two viable pantheons.

    As for other suggestions, I'd consider adopting Order instead of Freedom. You don't need to invest much culture into Order (the two freebies + Five-Year Plan is all you really need in my opinion), which allows you to finish Rationalism pretty early for fast Internet and/or Airports. Autocracy (Futurism) is a fun option for fast games as well.
     
  15. Shark Diver

    Shark Diver King

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2013
    Messages:
    861
    Location:
    San Diego (for now)
    Thank you. That matches my understanding.

    One aspect to the "Greedy Strategy" is that you bulb Scientists much earlier than you usually would to reach critical Wonder techs and infrastructure techs. In this game, I bulbed for Radio, Statue of Liberty, and Archeology to reach Cristo. I think the 4th bulb was Railroad, but that's because the game was pretty much over. Otherwise I'd have saved it.

    Regarding early-culture vs faith; I guess it depends on your confidence in building a 100+ FPT religion even if you go culture. In this game, I had 2 nearby Religious CS and I ended up at ~130 FPT, so I think it was the right choice.
     
  16. Shark Diver

    Shark Diver King

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2013
    Messages:
    861
    Location:
    San Diego (for now)
    This strategy, which was executed very well this game, aims to end the game well before I get to finish Rationalism. I occasionally make it to Airports at around t220 (This game it would have been t210). I haven't hit Internet with this strategy, as the early Scientist bulbs to favor Culture over Science does have some drawback.

    Order, the was you suggest using it, can also be pretty powerful. I might try that with a current strong Maya game I have going. Will let you know how it works.
     
  17. Shark Diver

    Shark Diver King

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2013
    Messages:
    861
    Location:
    San Diego (for now)
    Thank you. I finally was able to make this work. Because I'm running my virtual Windows as a remote machine (and I'm out of practice navigating Windows), it took some hunting to figure out which "desktop" to save to.

    I've got it now and am about to embark on EDGE 121.

    Edit: Can you remind me how to save a game I've created so I can share it?
     
  18. Nizef

    Nizef King

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2018
    Messages:
    648
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Finland
    When writing a message, there is an option to "Upload a File". Click that button and browse through your computer to attach the file you want to share. I am also happy that you found the EDGE thread. Thank you for trying it!
     
  19. Shark Diver

    Shark Diver King

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2013
    Messages:
    861
    Location:
    San Diego (for now)
    Good explanation. I was able to do it on the first try.

    My next thing to figure out is how to download a Mod. I've done it in the past, but am having my Windows incompetence issues. I'll post a cry for help over on the Mod thread when I'm ready to try it again.

    That Ethiopia EDGE game is a freakin blast. Thanks for directing me there. I'm in the doghouse with the Lady Diver, so I'm staying in tonight and might get it finished. Then I'll go back and try to play a few more.
     
  20. Nizef

    Nizef King

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2018
    Messages:
    648
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Finland
    Choose Mods from the main menu, accept risk .-> get mods. You will be diverted to Steam. I usually write "Civilization 5" and start my search. Any interesting mod will be downloaded to your computer (click on it in Steam and you will find a Subscribe button). Return to the game and all subscribed mods will appear soon in the Mods section.
     

Share This Page