Ranged Combat: Return Fire

[gumiga]

Ahriman, do you have a link to the said video where 3 frigates destroy another one?

 

[PieceOfMind]

This seems very unlikely.


Possibly, but if units have say a range of 4 and movement 4 (or range 3 movement 5), then my units can be 7 tiles away from yours when I declare war and still be able to attack you.

Should you really pre-emptively attack me just because my naval units are 7 tiles away from yours?

But I agree you have a good point.

I would say this. The idea of wiping out your rival on turn 1 of the war is nothing new. In civ4, on declaration of war, all enemy units were instantly bounced to outside the borders. This shows the problem was at least recognised and in that game it was addressed in that way. Also units in enemy territory were not able to use roads.

In civ5, I'm just as likely to assume the devs have at least noticed this potential problem and have some sort of solution to it. As I said before, I don't think FTA will be as big a problem as some of you seem to fear.

 

[AriochIV]

Ahriman, do you have a link to the said video where 3 frigates destroy another one?

It's here at 1:07 in:

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy...-2010-interview-jon-shafer?tag=videos;title;5

 

[PieceOfMind]

It's here at 1:07 in:

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy...-2010-interview-jon-shafer?tag=videos;title;5

Hey I just noticed something in that video I hadn't before. In regular combat, the defender gets to have the first shot. This is interesting - it's the exact opposite of the way AW does it.

This suggests that usually in a 1:1 matchup with only melee units the attacker has the disadvantage. However with ranged units, softening up the defender first will bring the battle to more level. This is probably the reason the defender gets the first shot.

This is in stark contrast to ranged combat (e.g. naval battles) where it appears the defender is completely disadvantaged.

 

[AriochIV]

In regular combat, the defender gets to have the first shot. This is interesting - it's the exact opposite of the way AW does it.

The order in which the animation is done doesn't necessarily have anything to do with how the numbers are calculated. The damage may well be allocated simultaneously.

 

[Grunthex]

It's here at 1:07 in:

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy...-2010-interview-jon-shafer?tag=videos;title;5

Ick. From what I can see, that has 2 frigates sinking another frigate from full health. The 2 attackers either have 2 promotions, or 2 unit abilities (they have that old placeholder silver lightning icon), the defender has 2 promotions.

Even the next part concerns me, as it has 2 destroyers then a battleship firing and sinking a battleship. Granted, those destroyers had a bunch more "abilities" (again, can't tell if those are promotions are not due to the age of the video). But it just seems casualties in general from ranged fire are too high. Imo.

 

[PieceOfMind]

In civ4, the animations matched up with the actual combat rounds. I'd say it's more likely than not that the same is true in civ5. If it looks like the defender always fires or swings first, there's probably a reason for it.

This is a good video to watch for seeing combat though, so thanks for linking it.

 

[migkillertwo]

i see no problem here
defenders should have an advantage. Maybe ranged combat is too strong - thats another question..

it never seemed to be a problem in CivIII

 

[AriochIV]

it never seemed to be a problem in CivIII

That's because you couldn't kill a unit with ranged fire in Civ III. You can in Civ V.

 

[PieceOfMind]

The order in which the animation is done doesn't necessarily have anything to do with how the numbers are calculated. The damage may well be allocated simultaneously.

By the way, I'm inclined to agree with you on this point now. From what I've seen, it does look like damage is traded simultaneously.