Elephantium
Trampling the AI
Go get 'em. 
Rat-32 3BC AW as Persia
- Thread starter ThERat
- Start date
Preturn: Some MM - got two cities to have +2 food without losing production. One is the capitol which can't grow, but if it is at max food instead of 0 food it we could chose to run it on deficit food later.
A bit worried that we don't have enough units to take out a capitol and there is nothing worse than losing a lot of units and failing. Decide to grab some of the other horse nearby.
70 AD: Waiting for 2 more Horsemen (and an Archer) Speed up temple build so we can get Wheat within our radius.
IBT: Spot Greek Swords. Two archers leave Capitol which may help.
90 AD: We start the attack. The 5 Archers go 1-4, first horse wins and exposes the first injured spear. Next two Horse win, then two losses vs a redlined spear going which goes to 2 hp by going Elite, the next does NO damage, the next redlines doing no damage, the final Horse kills it leaving a red-lined Spear still left. Our spear attacks it and we take the city. To make matters even worse, another horse loses against a red-lined Archer nearby. Unfortunately, that leaves us fewer units to deal with the Greeks and might just lost the game for us. One of the worst turns I have seen in my years of SG's (though it would have been much worse if the final Spear attack lost as we would have then gained nothing - at least the horses can go into the city now). I decide to rush 1 horse in Teotl.
We did get the Pyramids.
Next few turns will determine if we can survive the Greek rush with less units.
I also made one mistake with the workers in the city - they may get captured. I moved them onto the horse stack before realizing it was better to move all the horse off.
IBT: Only good thing is that every unit moves toward the Aztec Capitol. If the swords had continued straight towards us, it would have been worse. Aztec workers are captured when the Aztecs kill the single Archer guarding them as expected.
110 AD: Lose a Horse vs a Greek Warrior and then win one. Horse retreats from an Aztec warrior and we kill the next one. A final attack and we lose a Horse vs an Aztec Archer. This is getting intensely frustrating. We have now gone to 6 units under our Maximum support. Only good point is we can raise science to even at 70%
Horses are healing in Aztec capitol. We really have to do this despite flip chances We need those horses now (and they need to win).
The workers are next to the Capitol unguarded but we don't have a unit to capture them.
IBT: Aztecs move the workers to the unprotected square (rather than protected) giving us a second chance to take them back. Attacks go well this IBT and our Spear is Elite.
130 AD: Capture workers back. Horse is on mountain - I am unsure why I can't move the horse back. It obviously cost 3 movement but the Mountain was roaded. Does capturing workers ignore the road (unlike combat)?
Kill the 3 injured Aztec Archers.
BTW, Aztecs are building Sun Tzu - It is a good thing they don't have Iron.
IBT: Horse on mountain loses. Aztec Capitol (renamed to Monkey's Paw) riots due to suppression of resistors.
150 AD: Kill 2 Aztec Archer.
Notes: I am stopping after 5. Maybe the next player will be able to have better luck.
Things are looking ok as long as large numbers of Greeks don't show up. Without Iron though it is going to remain tough. We will want a lot of Catapults. You may even want most cities on them at first - Otherwise losses will be too high for us. Note math is now in only 2.
We could rush temple next turn to get Wheat in our borders some 6 turns earlier.
I would check the MM.
A bit worried that we don't have enough units to take out a capitol and there is nothing worse than losing a lot of units and failing. Decide to grab some of the other horse nearby.
70 AD: Waiting for 2 more Horsemen (and an Archer) Speed up temple build so we can get Wheat within our radius.
IBT: Spot Greek Swords. Two archers leave Capitol which may help.
90 AD: We start the attack. The 5 Archers go 1-4, first horse wins and exposes the first injured spear. Next two Horse win, then two losses vs a redlined spear going which goes to 2 hp by going Elite, the next does NO damage, the next redlines doing no damage, the final Horse kills it leaving a red-lined Spear still left. Our spear attacks it and we take the city. To make matters even worse, another horse loses against a red-lined Archer nearby. Unfortunately, that leaves us fewer units to deal with the Greeks and might just lost the game for us. One of the worst turns I have seen in my years of SG's (though it would have been much worse if the final Spear attack lost as we would have then gained nothing - at least the horses can go into the city now). I decide to rush 1 horse in Teotl.
We did get the Pyramids.
Next few turns will determine if we can survive the Greek rush with less units.
I also made one mistake with the workers in the city - they may get captured. I moved them onto the horse stack before realizing it was better to move all the horse off.
IBT: Only good thing is that every unit moves toward the Aztec Capitol. If the swords had continued straight towards us, it would have been worse. Aztec workers are captured when the Aztecs kill the single Archer guarding them as expected.
110 AD: Lose a Horse vs a Greek Warrior and then win one. Horse retreats from an Aztec warrior and we kill the next one. A final attack and we lose a Horse vs an Aztec Archer. This is getting intensely frustrating. We have now gone to 6 units under our Maximum support. Only good point is we can raise science to even at 70%
Horses are healing in Aztec capitol. We really have to do this despite flip chances We need those horses now (and they need to win).
The workers are next to the Capitol unguarded but we don't have a unit to capture them.
IBT: Aztecs move the workers to the unprotected square (rather than protected) giving us a second chance to take them back. Attacks go well this IBT and our Spear is Elite.
130 AD: Capture workers back. Horse is on mountain - I am unsure why I can't move the horse back. It obviously cost 3 movement but the Mountain was roaded. Does capturing workers ignore the road (unlike combat)?
Kill the 3 injured Aztec Archers.
BTW, Aztecs are building Sun Tzu - It is a good thing they don't have Iron.
IBT: Horse on mountain loses. Aztec Capitol (renamed to Monkey's Paw) riots due to suppression of resistors.
150 AD: Kill 2 Aztec Archer.
Notes: I am stopping after 5. Maybe the next player will be able to have better luck.
Things are looking ok as long as large numbers of Greeks don't show up. Without Iron though it is going to remain tough. We will want a lot of Catapults. You may even want most cities on them at first - Otherwise losses will be too high for us. Note math is now in only 2.
We could rush temple next turn to get Wheat in our borders some 6 turns earlier.
I would check the MM.
One frustration I didn't mention is that the Elite units did especially badly despite my using them for the easiest attacks. We have none other than the new Elite Spear and so are far from getting a needed Army.
TheOverseer714
Overseer
The RnG has been very rough this game. I lost 5 or 6 Archers on 2 Spears my last turn-set on an unwalled town built on grass, so I know your pain, Greeb. Without Iron, we don't have what makes Persia a good AW tribe. Amazing how rare the Iron must be, and with it held by the Greeks, we are in deep trouble.
150 AD (0)
MM for food in Teoti
IT: Aztec archer dies attacking Monkey's Paw
Greek swordsmen 1-1 at Teoti
Tamuin Worker > (Catapult)
170 AD (1)
Scientists in Monkey's Paw
Rush Temple in No Loco
Kill Aztec Archer and Greek sword near Teoti
IT: Math > Pottery
Pasargadae Horse > Cat
No Loco Temple > Cat
Arbela Cat > Cat
190 AD (3)
Pottery in 4 turns at 0% with 4 scientists in Monkey's Paw
Archer kills N.Merc, promotes
Horse kills Aztec Archer, finds Texcoco north/northeast of Antioch
IT: Antioch Horse > Horse
210 AD (4)
Kill an archer near Monkey's Paw
Kill another north of Teoti and find Atzcapotzalco
Kill archer near Texcoco
IT: Forest cleared for Tamuin
Horse defeats Archer out of Texcoco, promotes
Pasargadae Cat > Cat
Arbela Cat > Cat
230 AD (5)
Raise science to make up for loss of scientist
Bombardment of Leptis Minor: 0/1
IT: Nada
250 AD (5)
Horse retreats from archer in jungle
Bombardment of Leptis Minor: 0/2
Whip a citizen in Teoti
IT: Pottery > Polytheism
Pasargadae Cat > Cat
Arbela Cat > Cat
No Loco border expansion
Tamuin Cat > Worker
260 AD (6)
Bombardment of Leptis Minor: 1/3
First horse captures Leptis Minor! (galley destroyed)
Kill two more Aztec archers, promoting one horse
IT: Horse near Texcoco retreats from N.Merc
Horse in mountain NW of Teoti promotes against archer
Aztec galley approaches
Second Greek archer in mountain west of Monkey's Paw
270 AD (7)
Elite Archer kills wounded N.Merc
Elite Horse kills Aztec archer
Elite Horse dies to second Aztec archer
Vet Horse kills the second archer and promotes
IT: Newly promoted horse dies to a third archer
Greek archer dies in Monkey's Paw, second remains fortified
Pasargadae Cat > Spear
Arbela Cat > Spear
Antioch Horse > Spear
280 AD (8)
Elite Horse kills archer
IT: Carth archer dies to our elite archer
Teoti riots (oops)
Spain completes Great Wall in Salamanca
290 AD (9)
Troop movement
IT: Forest cleared for Antioch
Pasargadae Spear > Horse
Arbela Spear > Horse
Antioch Spear > Cat
Tamuin Worker > Cat
300 AD (10)
Elite horse kills Aztec archer
Bombard Greek archer, Elite horse makes the kill
Vet horse kills Aztec archer
24 kills, 3 casualties
6 elite victories failed to produce a leader
We currently have 5 elite units: 2 horsemen, 2 spearmen, and an archer
Forest chop complete this turn. Shields will go to Tamuin, but could be forced to Antioch instead. Tamuin needs MM next turn, and Teoti the turn after. We should consider a temple in Arbela.
With Greece to the north, I think we should take the southern Aztec cites first.
MM for food in Teoti
IT: Aztec archer dies attacking Monkey's Paw
Greek swordsmen 1-1 at Teoti
Tamuin Worker > (Catapult)
170 AD (1)
Scientists in Monkey's Paw
Rush Temple in No Loco
Kill Aztec Archer and Greek sword near Teoti
IT: Math > Pottery
Pasargadae Horse > Cat
No Loco Temple > Cat
Arbela Cat > Cat
190 AD (3)
Pottery in 4 turns at 0% with 4 scientists in Monkey's Paw
Archer kills N.Merc, promotes
Horse kills Aztec Archer, finds Texcoco north/northeast of Antioch
IT: Antioch Horse > Horse
210 AD (4)
Kill an archer near Monkey's Paw
Kill another north of Teoti and find Atzcapotzalco
Kill archer near Texcoco
IT: Forest cleared for Tamuin
Horse defeats Archer out of Texcoco, promotes
Pasargadae Cat > Cat
Arbela Cat > Cat
230 AD (5)
Raise science to make up for loss of scientist
Bombardment of Leptis Minor: 0/1
IT: Nada
250 AD (5)
Horse retreats from archer in jungle
Bombardment of Leptis Minor: 0/2
Whip a citizen in Teoti
IT: Pottery > Polytheism
Pasargadae Cat > Cat
Arbela Cat > Cat
No Loco border expansion
Tamuin Cat > Worker
260 AD (6)
Bombardment of Leptis Minor: 1/3
First horse captures Leptis Minor! (galley destroyed)
Kill two more Aztec archers, promoting one horse
IT: Horse near Texcoco retreats from N.Merc
Horse in mountain NW of Teoti promotes against archer
Aztec galley approaches
Second Greek archer in mountain west of Monkey's Paw
270 AD (7)
Elite Archer kills wounded N.Merc
Elite Horse kills Aztec archer
Elite Horse dies to second Aztec archer
Vet Horse kills the second archer and promotes
IT: Newly promoted horse dies to a third archer
Greek archer dies in Monkey's Paw, second remains fortified
Pasargadae Cat > Spear
Arbela Cat > Spear
Antioch Horse > Spear
280 AD (8)
Elite Horse kills archer
IT: Carth archer dies to our elite archer
Teoti riots (oops)
Spain completes Great Wall in Salamanca
290 AD (9)
Troop movement
IT: Forest cleared for Antioch
Pasargadae Spear > Horse
Arbela Spear > Horse
Antioch Spear > Cat
Tamuin Worker > Cat
300 AD (10)
Elite horse kills Aztec archer
Bombard Greek archer, Elite horse makes the kill
Vet horse kills Aztec archer
24 kills, 3 casualties
6 elite victories failed to produce a leader
We currently have 5 elite units: 2 horsemen, 2 spearmen, and an archer
Forest chop complete this turn. Shields will go to Tamuin, but could be forced to Antioch instead. Tamuin needs MM next turn, and Teoti the turn after. We should consider a temple in Arbela.
With Greece to the north, I think we should take the southern Aztec cites first.
Attachments
ThERat
Deity
agree we should take the southern towns and then head to that northern Aztec town. Let's roll them over while they are weak. We ain't need no flip stuff, so get rid of them faster.
The Roster
Greebley
Mathias
TheOverseer - take it after me
ThERat - up
el_filet
Elephantinum
As the overseer is busy with the SGOTM, I will swap with him for this round
The Roster
Greebley
Mathias
TheOverseer - take it after me
ThERat - up
el_filet
Elephantinum
As the overseer is busy with the SGOTM, I will swap with him for this round
ThERat
Deity
Pre-Turn
finish the turn with some minor movements
1. 310AD
well, maybe I get the good RnG as we take Xochicaclo after defeating 2 spears without losses
defeat a nearby archer as well
2. 320AD
need to increase lux to 30% to combat unhappiness
whipping in despotism ain't that great
defeat a red archer at Monkey's paw and then move on to take Tlaxcala without losses
there is yet another town way south
IT we get the FP message
3. 330AD
bombardment ain't good, but defeat a sword at Monkey
IT more enemies show up at all fronts
4. 340AD
bombard then defeat an archer near Calix and discover IRON
attack Tula, lose a horse, but gain a leader
form an army but leave it empty for now
then take the town and the south is all ours
defeat an additional spear
IT greek land a unit next to Tula
get poly, go for monarchy
5. 350AD
defeat two archer and move a stack next to Calix
defeat a sword near Antioch
IT hmm, the phalanx doesn't pillage at Tula, weird
6. 360AD
Antioch is under pressure, defeat 2 swords there
bombardment of Calix reveals 3 spears, send another horse there
IT a tile at Teoti gets pillaged
7. 370AD
redline 2/3 spears at Calix
attack and Calix becomes Iron at last
start to move in workers to get us that iron as soon as possible
lose e archer trying to defeat a pillager merc, but take it + archer out
defeat archer at Tula
8. 380AD
quiet turn as I move in more workers and start the get closer
no attacks
9. 390AD
the iron is covered with a spear but we only finished to connect the city
defeat a sword at Teoti
10. 400AD
defeat a phalanx at Teoti and one at Xo What?
defeat archer next to Iron At Last
move a stack of workers onto the iron hill
there are 3 more nearby in case we need them
finish the turn with some minor movements
1. 310AD
well, maybe I get the good RnG as we take Xochicaclo after defeating 2 spears without losses
defeat a nearby archer as well
2. 320AD
need to increase lux to 30% to combat unhappiness
whipping in despotism ain't that great
defeat a red archer at Monkey's paw and then move on to take Tlaxcala without losses
there is yet another town way south
IT we get the FP message
3. 330AD
bombardment ain't good, but defeat a sword at Monkey
IT more enemies show up at all fronts
4. 340AD
bombard then defeat an archer near Calix and discover IRON
attack Tula, lose a horse, but gain a leader
form an army but leave it empty for now
then take the town and the south is all ours
defeat an additional spear
IT greek land a unit next to Tula
get poly, go for monarchy
5. 350AD
defeat two archer and move a stack next to Calix
defeat a sword near Antioch
IT hmm, the phalanx doesn't pillage at Tula, weird
6. 360AD
Antioch is under pressure, defeat 2 swords there
bombardment of Calix reveals 3 spears, send another horse there
IT a tile at Teoti gets pillaged
7. 370AD
redline 2/3 spears at Calix
attack and Calix becomes Iron at last
start to move in workers to get us that iron as soon as possible
lose e archer trying to defeat a pillager merc, but take it + archer out
defeat archer at Tula
8. 380AD
quiet turn as I move in more workers and start the get closer
no attacks
9. 390AD
the iron is covered with a spear but we only finished to connect the city
defeat a sword at Teoti
10. 400AD
defeat a phalanx at Teoti and one at Xo What?
defeat archer next to Iron At Last
move a stack of workers onto the iron hill
there are 3 more nearby in case we need them
I know I did one whipping for a regular horse because we needed one fast and recommended a whip for 2 wheat 6 turns earlier. Both seemed worth doing, though I would have liked to avoid the first - a regular horse isn't usually worth a whipping but not whipping put the pyramids at risk, and also I think 2 more wheat is worth a whip. In general though I agree and try to avoid whips.
Excellent news on the iron. Sounds like we held together in the hard times and now have a good chance. Next up is to try to get an army. We are very late on getting one.
BTW, if no civ knows lit, do we want to try the GLib? If noone is building it that we know about, then start a prebuild and head for it.
We have the UU and our GA. Since we are only 10 from monarchy, I would revolt right away and have our GA afterwards. That means not using immortals until after that. Build sufficient cats to survive the Anarchy without using Immortals.
Excellent news on the iron. Sounds like we held together in the hard times and now have a good chance. Next up is to try to get an army. We are very late on getting one.
BTW, if no civ knows lit, do we want to try the GLib? If noone is building it that we know about, then start a prebuild and head for it.
We have the UU and our GA. Since we are only 10 from monarchy, I would revolt right away and have our GA afterwards. That means not using immortals until after that. Build sufficient cats to survive the Anarchy without using Immortals.
ThERat
Deity
We did get a leader and we have an empty army next to our capital waiting to be filled with immortals. I agree to wait a bit for the GA. While we build some immortals for the eventual attack on Greece and Carthage, we might be able to take a few more Aztec cities. Their spears aren't much for our forces.
What i do not understand why thy never connected that iron
el_filet
Prince
more cities, leader and iron - our position looks quite good now.
we'll fill the army with immos i guess. we should wait for monarchy for GA of course. does somebody knows if it's triggered by an army of our UU (probably yes, but i don't really know)?
GLib makes sense, i think we should give it a shot if no known civ is on it already.
antioch seems like a good place for the FP. do we build it or wait for leaders? with 12 cities already, that might take a long time.
similar story with HE. more leaders will help a lot for quite some time.
palace jump would be a good idea too, but don't see that happening without a spare leader.
I'd vote for GLib in arbela and FP in Antioch, but this is only from the screenshot. being able to defend our land is more important, especially during anarchy.
we'll fill the army with immos i guess. we should wait for monarchy for GA of course. does somebody knows if it's triggered by an army of our UU (probably yes, but i don't really know)?
GLib makes sense, i think we should give it a shot if no known civ is on it already.
antioch seems like a good place for the FP. do we build it or wait for leaders? with 12 cities already, that might take a long time.
similar story with HE. more leaders will help a lot for quite some time.
palace jump would be a good idea too, but don't see that happening without a spare leader.
I'd vote for GLib in arbela and FP in Antioch, but this is only from the screenshot. being able to defend our land is more important, especially during anarchy.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
I almost never want to waste a leader on the FP. The reason is the first 3 leaders go for Armies and the next for Pentagon.
However, I don't think we can advance much during Anarchy so if we were at max armies and under 12 cities, I would think the FP reasonable.
We could start both a FP and Palace prebuild now for GLib with either one falling back to the Hero Epic if we get that extra leader or GLib is completed.
However, I don't think we can advance much during Anarchy so if we were at max armies and under 12 cities, I would think the FP reasonable.
We could start both a FP and Palace prebuild now for GLib with either one falling back to the Hero Epic if we get that extra leader or GLib is completed.
ThERat said:What i do not understand why thy never connected that iron
I have seen this before with iron on mountains. I think it is because the AI can see all resources and doesn't consider which one it can actually use. If the saltpeter and oil were on easier squares to connect, it was probably off doing that rather than the iron
It also won't start building a road to it before it has a city nearby, unless it specifically goes for a colony which is a lower priority task for the AI as well. If the city spot is less good (other than the Iron), I think it can ignore the spot for a while.
------------
Surviving the Anarchy may be hard. I suggest playing very defensively. If a defense 2 unit isn't red-lined, then let it retreat and heal rather than attacking with an Archer or Horse. We can afford to have a build up of enemy forces as we will have a GA and immortals to deal with it later rather than the horses and archer now. On turns with several enemies, it is worth doing a single hp to each to get them to retreat again.
I would continue to build mostly cats until we get monarchy to help with this.
ThERat
Deity
yes, after this fast pace expansion, we might want to slow it a bit and consolidate until we have passed the anarchy period. with the many cats we have right now, defense shouldn't be hard. would still build at least 3 immortals to fill the army so we can go out and attack immediately. This army will overrun the Aztecs.
by the way, I think the oversseer is still busy, el_filet, if you want, just play your turns.
by the way, I think the oversseer is still busy, el_filet, if you want, just play your turns.
el_filet
Prince
i probably won't get to it before thursday, so leave it for now.
agree on the immos for the army. i would like to use it for something. sending the army pillaging seems too risky for my taste, but armies usually don't get attacked. can we safely (= no GA triggered) do a little pillaging during anarchy?
agree on the immos for the army. i would like to use it for something. sending the army pillaging seems too risky for my taste, but armies usually don't get attacked. can we safely (= no GA triggered) do a little pillaging during anarchy?
ThERat
Deity
shouldn't be a problem to use the army for that. we could also use it for coverage of other units to capture cities
Just don't put it in the city itself - then it would be attacked.
[Edit: Just using it for pillage wouldn't be that bad, but we don't want to meet new civs.]
[Edit: Just using it for pillage wouldn't be that bad, but we don't want to meet new civs.]
ThERat
Deity
just a reminder 
Roster
Greebley
Mathias
TheOverseer - up
ThERat - played already
el_filet
Elephantinum
Roster
Greebley
Mathias
TheOverseer - up
ThERat - played already
el_filet
Elephantinum
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