Rat 40 - Introduction to CCM

[ThERat]

I'm guessing we want Ballistics next and then jurisprudence to get to Absolutism and on to Military Trad

It would be nice if we can pick up navigation so as to grab the Hanseatic League Wonder. As mentioned earlier, we should use the bank/uni prebuild to complete this wonder (must be a city with a harbor).

We will need the bombard for Portugal and Canada too.

Catapults etc work different in CCM, no way we can knock off some hp. In CCM until air bombardment, it is kill them with numbers. Do not be scared of losses, we will make up with superior numbers for it. Other than that, the circle sounds good to me. Portugal also seems the right place to stage an invasion of the other continent.

 

[barbslinger]

It would be nice if we can pick up navigation so as to grab the Hansiatic Wonder. As mentioned earlier, we should use the bank/uni prebuild to complete this wonder (must be a city with a harbor).

Check on that! Kontors from the Hansiatic Wonder are much needed.

Catapults etc work different in CCM, no way we can knock off some hp.

Dang! Numbers it is.

 

[Northern Pike]

Spain isn't large enough to threaten us, but OTOH Isabella looks like the best bet to help us with research, so I agree that the Spanish should be our last target on our continent.

The Carthaginian units now approaching aren't attackers, so you may find it possible just to block them from moving onto our roads, and wait for them to move onto flat land, rather than making unpleasant hill and mountain attacks. Vmxa has probably disposed of most the Carths' field forces, but if we wait until they don't have anything in sight before moving on their cities, we'll wait forever.

I don't like the idea of getting off our agreed tech path for Wonder-whoring, but Rat knows the mod best, if that's what he's really advocating. I would like clarification, though, of whether by "pick up Navigation" Rat means researching it or trading for it. I assumed the latter.

 

[ThERat]

In my test games so far, the AI always went for navigation and some other wonder techs. Thus, I am surprised that nobody has that tech yet. This is dg, not monarch

Anyway, of course we should stay on course for cavalry and pick up any other tech along the way. I am sure navigation will show up sooner or later.

I agree with NP about blocking the mountains. Do not let thos pesky pikes occupy them. And forget about covering our fast units. That simply means too much slow down. I know it hurts to lose units, but we will gain them back very fast with the little corruption in this game.

 

[Civinator]

I'll have a look with any questions tonight and play tomorrow. Can't the leader be used to rush Copes or Newtons? I'm pretty sure I rushed something in one of the games I'm playing though it may have been a FPalace.

As in every game based on C3C, military great leaders (MGLs) only can rush normal buildings and small wonders. Great wonders only can be rushed by scientific great leaders (SGLs). That is hardcoded for C3C. CCM took away the possibility of MGLs to form armies, as in my eyes this is a form of cheating.

As MGLs still have the option to rush small wonders and normal buildings, I consider to rename the MGLs to “captured supplies” and to give them another graphics. If this unit wouldn´t be battlecreated, the name “Great architect” would be more abropriate.

Catapults etc work different in CCM, no way we can knock off some hp. In CCM until air bombardment, it is kill them with numbers

Catapults, etc. have defensive bombardement. So when contained in a stack, they can take out up to one HP from attackers. Additionally they can soften up 1-MV defenders by attack (or take them out). They were the mainreason for giving 2 MV-units a greater change of “retreating” (=surviving). The bombard has limited stealth attack against all era 1 and most era 2 units. Therefore it is also a great unit to take out or to soften up defending units in its time. When running on roads, they can move 6 tiles a turn and are as fast as nearly every mounted attacker, so if you plan to attack your enemies, it´s frequently a good thing to have a road to them.

Don´t forget, if you plan to do a battle against a big enemy stack, that in CCM you have the option to improve your unit-stats by building a garrison in battleradius (use an uneffecient slave-worker for it).

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I like, that your game at present is at scale to the real world history.

 

[vmxa]

There are two things that lead us to work on the southern parts before Spain. One is we already have a war and units in the area. The second is that we will need to control the SE to prevent incursions from the others (Az, Dutch etc).

Culture is always a concern above Emperor. As long as we have two AI's left to offset each other we are good. Usually by the time we get down to the end we can either get within 50% of the top dogs or protect an OCC nation.

 

[ThERat]

There is no culture victory in CCM btw, so that's not a worry at all

 

[vmxa]

I agree with NP about blocking the mountains. Do not let thos pesky pikes occupy them. And forget about covering our fast units. That simply means too much slow down. I know it hurts to lose units, but we will gain them back very fast with the little corruption in this game.

Until we can get a couple of Arques on the scene we are stuck. We have to protect Karachi. It should be 2 turns and then we will have defenders to protect the town.

We can put together a small stack right after that to deal with the incoming. If we had the units I would block the access to the hills and make them come around to the flats, but that would take a lot of defenders.

Realistically we can put in one small stack where it is now or one tile over that can attack incoming and we just replace the losses as we go. While we send a larger stack on to attack them.

It just takes time to get that many units in place, especially as we have so many towns not making troops. CCM has a lot of infra that can be built and should be built, but it is not easy to balance that and troop building.

The faster growth is making a requirement for more happiness. Now the better towns have their structures up and we gained another lux from Az. Several small towns are starting to kick out Areques.

I agree we cannot let faster movers move at slow movers speed, but we do need to have the defenders to cover them on sieges. To move into newly captured towns.

It looks like Carthage has spent its close to us attackers, but we also have to keep the roads clear and intact. That means killing those spears and pikes.

What I am not real sure about is will they keep heading for Karachi, if it has a couple of Areques? I would not like to see them switch to say Lahore and force us to defend two locations.

 

[vmxa]

There is no culture victory in CCM btw, so that's not a worry at all

Then we only have to sweat out flips. Anyway they do not even manage to culture win on Sid. Well they did it to me once, but I wised up after that lession.

 

[Northern Pike]

Don´t forget, if you plan to do a battle against a big enemy stack, that in CCM you have the option to improve your unit-stats by building a garrison in battleradius (use an uneffecient slave-worker for it).

Thanks for the tip. I assume this option isn't available yet because we don't have Exploration.

Can garrisons be built in neutral territory?

 

[Northern Pike]

A minor point: I wouldn't let Osaka work those two jungle tiles. There's no point risking disease. The town can just run five scientists until we clear the rest of its jungle.

 

[Civinator]

Can garrisons be built in neutral territory?

Other than outposts, garrisons can only be built inside your own territory (they are the radartowers of standard C3C).

 

[vmxa]

Slaves are too hard to come by for that. The amount of land we have and will have means every worker is important. Troops can be replaced, so to me it would have to be a critical situation.

The problem then is that you are not aware it is critical, until it is too late. In addition, no certainty that it would help enough. That and you would have to have the slave at hand.

 

[Northern Pike]

I wouldn't mind using a few slaves this way in the course of a game, since they're so much less useful than the faster workers. To me the problem is more that the inside-one's-own-territory requirement makes it hard to benefit from garrisons when the 25% boost would be most desirable, in attacks on enemy cities. But enemy cities arranged in the right way, plus a culture bomb, might make it possible occasionally. It would certainly be an interesting tactical challenge.

 

[vmxa]

How likely is it that they will attack a stack in a fort/garrison? Setting it up to where they would attack is probably going to be problematic. Unless they give a bonus on attacking, that would work.

The only time I recall being able to use fortification/garrison/barricades where I wanted them to attack them and not just force them to go around, was where there was a choke. Even then it was forcing them to attack the town at the choke, not the fortifications.

Barricades in one of the scenarios was of some use as it stopped movement when they entered the unmanned ones. Given me chances to bombard them.

I guess we can keep an eye out for an opportunity to try them.

 

[barbslinger]

Rat40 – 1470AD

Things to do:
Set up cities for Physics wonders, Coast city for Hansiatic league and the Potola Palace look pretty good too. I short rush a a UNI in Osaka for 840g and swap Vientiane to Uni in 6 so that Angkor can work Potola as a placeholder. Hanoi has a UNI in 8 as a placeholder for Hansiatic. Seoul is building a Stupa and has no happy trouble and does not grow for 12 turns. It goes to UNI. That leaves 5 cities building military. Rush a few town Centers and military builds. Shuffle some more military towards the front. Go through scientists to use the least amount + 1 to get Physics in 4.
Just noticed Carthage is building Hansiatic in Hippo Regius!! It has 2 fish and tundra forest with 10 pop. He might be doing around 16-17 spt and our city is doing 26spt. I don’t know when he started it but it should start trading around soon.
Take a closer look at the war. I think until I can heal and get some arques down here I am just dancing with them a bit.

IT

Silly naval bombard near Bangalore
They cut an unused road with a mine in Karachi.

Delhi – Slavery > Arque in 3. It makes 15spt now.
Bombay – Arque > Arque in 2 at 21 spt
Madras – Arque > Town Center to be rushed.
Osaka – UNI > EK in 3 after going to -1 food. It won’t starve before changing to Science wonder.
Saigon – EK > EK at a nice 26spt and then change my mind to sneak in a rushed UNI on the next turn.
Rangoon – EK > Uni to be rushed.
Kolhapur – Town Center > Arque in 10.
Phnom Penh – Slavery > EK in 4 at 13 spt.
Make contact with Persia and he only has 17gpt and 20g. He is down UNI to us. His city list has Prague and 4 others like that in it so he has been warring. Get an embassy and capital has 28 spt at 14 pop with a clown, iron, horses and elephants. 4 spears and a knight. He is building a knight. No saltpeter for now.
We get a ROP, 11gpt an 25g for silks. That should keep him happy while we traverse around that long stretch towards Greece.
Spain picks up Sacred Art.

(1)1480AD

4 hp knight VS 3 hp spears are 84% on flatland, 78% on hills and 66% on mountains. WOW! 2 retreats and then our elite goes to 1hp! After that horrible RNG I try my luck Knight vs Knight on a mountain and win. That exposes Carthage iron. Send a few boys to knock it down.
Rush Bangkok and Kyoto Unis to get them on Military. Satsuma gets its Temple rushed. Still have 10081g making 288gpt. Set upa little 4 man mountain wall to try to force the spears onto the elephant plains. Rush the Seoul UNI.

IT

Our 3 knights that were heading for Carthage iron get attacked in the mountains and we barely win both. Both spears run down to the elephant plains.

Seoul – Uni > Arque in 2 with a tile switch each turn.
Kyoto – Uni > Stupa for happy. That town is growing fast but good science from the coast tiles.
Tokyo – EK – EK in 2 at 25spt.
Satsuma – Temple > Slavery
Bangkok – Uni > Arques in 2 at 21spt.
Da Nang – EK > Arque in 2 @ 21spt
Saw a real problem developing with a lot of towns making low 20’s for shields and really only suitable for Arques not EK’s which would be a waste. Decided to rush a scout for 80g and 10 shields and then swap to EK’s in Bangkok and Da Nang.

(2) 1490AD

Rush both the Rangoon and Saigon Unis along with the Madras Town Center.
Finally get to use a Bombarde and it is selective attack. It wins without a scratch. A trebuchet takes down the other Afrika Spear. 6-0. Only 1 Afrika Spear in view. Swap out some new knights to get the iron and go back to heal the others. We have about 17 EK’s near Lahore, some needing healing, with more showing up. We have other odd units. Take Osaka off of -1 food to even and EK is still in 2.

IT
The iron take down knights get another knight attacking them and we win again only losing 1 hp. A longbow pops out and attacks an EK I put on a hill to force units onto the plains. We win but barely. 8-0 Carthage sent 2 boats north past the bombing folly. Drop off probably in the works. Bien Hoa maybe.I’ll need a shadow.
Royal Tourney gives a knight.
Delhi – Arque > shortrush to an EK in 1.
Bombay – Arque > Arque in 2
Madras – Town Center > Arque in 4
Saigon – Uni > EK in 2
Rangoon – Uni > Bank in 9. Thaat leader will be handy here. It makes 18spt but lots of gold.

(3) 1500AD

Knock Physics down to 50% to still get it in 1 after swapping some specialists. +415gpt. Spain is up Sacred Art and Carthage is up Navigation. Just realized we will meet the Greeks in 2-3 turns on the south end.
Phan Boi Chou rushes the bank in Rangoon.
Bombarde loses 1 hp taking out Afrika Spear. 9-0
Jump
We have 16 EK’s in area with 6 healing. 6 more on site next turn. Arques are showing up slowly even though I swap with some in towns in route to try to gwt 6 movement. Kinda chaining them.

IT

Carthage sends a phant in near Karachi
Physics – Ballistics in 9. Like the looks of that Musket
Swap the builds. Newtons in 5 in Angkor. Copes in 11 in Osaka. Vientiane back to potola.

Get a Clan
Seoul – Arque > Arque in 2
Delhi – Arque > shortrush to an EK in 1.
P’yongyang – Temple > Market for the ocean gold.
Wonsan – Wat > Short rush a scout to get Arque in 2
Tokyo – EK – EK in 2 at 25spt
Bangalore – Temple – Arque in 2
Pusan – Windmill > Market for ocean gold.
Edo – Market > Wat in 6. This city needs a UNI too with its gold. Doing 39 beakers. I swapped it to Uni. We can always use specialists for happiness.
Rangoon – Bank > EK in 3 wasting a little bit at 18spt.
Bangkok – EK > EK short rushed
Da Nang – Same

(4) 1505AD
Cut the iron. Check Mil Advisor and we are strong to Carthage. I don’t know what is going on? I can’t move the EK’s back from where they came. Could it be that since Knight can’t traverse mountains I’m screwed? I save it in case Civinator wants a look. I take the best way to the right and pop out on top of Sabratha. Why couldn’t I see it 2 tiles away on a mountain?
Decide to make a move on Sabratha so I send a trebuchet to knock out the phant and get a LEADER!
Send 9 EK, WE, Bombarde and Arque 2 tiles from Sabratha. Attack in 2. The other 4 EK’s that took down the iron are dead N of Sabratha.
Even though Carthage wants peace I can’t see if he is out of iron. Discussing peace terms only gets an offer.of 700g. No counter offer??? We can’t ask for cities I’m surmising.
Still no stellar deals out there.

IT

We swap loses of a knight each. 10-1

Delhi – Arque > shortrush to an EK in 1
Bombay – Arque > Arque in 2
Saigon – Uni > EK in 2
Namp’o – Temple > Market

(5) 1510AD

We meet Greece and they are loaded with Nav and Sacred Art and 17371g. We get Sacred Art, Nav and 2675g for Uni. She would give us around 7500g for Physics but I want those wonders so no. Hansiatic in 14. If we’re lucky. Do an embassy and Athens is building it in 21 at 17spt. They just started it. They have no resources and we should keep it that way. Another 2 kills and I mess up a monk move leaving him exposed.

The bigger news is this!!! She has a chariot and 2 WE’s a knight and a Cat coming in. I told her to leave. I was going to trade her Uni too but not now. She will give 870g and 64gpt. We have 3 knights and 3 right behind in 1 turn plus WE and odds and ends.

Looks like a 2 front war forthcoming!

 

[barbslinger]

 

[Northern Pike]

Exciting stuff. Our northernmost cities are very strong defensively, so holding Isabella off shouldn't be too difficult.

The strategy of sticking to our tech line and waiting for trade opportunities was bound to pay off in the end.

 

[barbslinger]

Ran one more turn and she is sending the farm so I'll be going defensive for a while. Rushing a new Royal barracks from Physics. I'm more worried about damage. We are also in front of Sabratha and it should go down next turn. I don't know where to send this settler. To culture bomb Spain or 15 turns to bomb Carthage.

 

[ThERat]

wow, nice stuff

Nice trades Once we secure the science wonders, we might want to milk Greece, they got a lot of cash for us to rush stuff. Good work using our money to rush universities. As we can only run 70% science, we should rush science builds.

As for the settler, I think you should decide what to do. How many cities has Carthage left? Getting a 2 front war isn't exactly the nicest thing.