[GS] Rate the civs in the hands of the AI - elimination thread

[kaspergm]

Amanitore/Nubia [23]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [ELIMINATED] (1-3) AI doesn't play to his strengths from my experiences.
John Curtin/Australia [22].
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [32]
Poundmaker/Cree [24]
Seondeok/Korea [23] Will almost always post a challenge imo., not least because she will automatically snipe all great scientists from you.
Teddy Roosevelt [17].

 

[Leucarum]

Amanitore/Nubia [23]
John Curtin/Australia [19] (22-3) Was going to vote for Mongolia but guess that's not on the cards. Not many left but out of the remainder Curtin seems the weakest link. Amanitore and Teddy can both punish a player who starts too close while Mvemba and Poundmaker both tend to build pretty decent empires based off either ignoring religion or spamming a good UI for production. In contrast, Curtin will usually settle poorly to take advantage of his adjacency bonuses before attacking the player to nullify his defensive buff. (Disclaimer: Everyone sees different things in their games, and this is one of the most subjective elimination threads out there. YMMV)
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [32]
Poundmaker/Cree [24]
Seondeok/Korea [23]
Teddy Roosevelt [18] (17+1) A little more problematic to start next to than the others.

 

[bengalryan9]

Amanitore/Nubia [23]
John Curtin/Australia [20] (19+1) As far as subjectivity is concerned, maybe "I've never seen him do that well in my games" isn't the be all and end all determinant of how people should vote? I mean I've never seen Kongo or Nubia do anything in any of my games but I haven't downvoted either because it's pretty obvious that my experience is the exception and not the rule. At WORST Curtin gets +1 to his 4 most important districts compared to everyone on the list, and at best he gets +3 (and this happens far more commonly than he's getting credit for, but I guess we're content to ignore that point). Outside of "they are an early threat" I'm not sure what Teddy and Amanitore do better than Curtin. What does Poundmaker do better than Curtin? The answer to these questions is nothing. Curtin will out pace all of them in science, culture, gold, faith, and production. What more do you need?
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [32]
Poundmaker/Cree [24]
Seondeok/Korea [23]
Teddy Roosevelt [15] (18-3) Starting next to him is the ONLY case where he's going to be a problem. What else is he going to do during the course of every other era in the game (you know, 8/9ths of the game) to give you any kind of trouble whatsoever? Nothing! And if it's just about that +5 combat strength advantage... Genghis is almost guaranteed to have a larger bonus than that, and his applies all over the map!

 

[OmegaDestroyer]

Amanitore/Nubia [23]
John Curtin/Australia [21](20+1) A consistent force in my games. Has great bonuses and can really dig in when threatened. Always seems to be one of the major contenders in the later eras.
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [32]
Poundmaker/Cree [24]
Seondeok/Korea [20] (23-3) The only thing I've seen the Queen of Boredom do with her science advantage is be an early game nuisance. Hard to stop knights with warriors. That said, she doesn't ever do anything of value with her technological superiority and I have never seen her even attempt a science victory.
Teddy Roosevelt [15]

 

[Drivingrevilo]

Amanitore/Nubia [23]
John Curtin/Australia [22] (21+2) I'm with @bengalryan9 here. It would be dishonest of me to upvote anyone else but Curtin. I genuinely find him to be the best AI opponent – better than the Kongo, for instance, and far better than Amanitore (who I don't rate at all, but no one seems to agree with me). Just shows how greatly different players see/notice different things.
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [32]
Poundmaker/Cree [24]
Seondeok/Korea [20]
Teddy Roosevelt [12] (15-3) As has been explained, he is terrifying if he's on your continent, but just another opponent if he's not. For whatever reason, the AI never comes close to cultural victory in my games (must be something to do with the way I play), so his tourism bonuses have never impressed me either.

 

[TCBB]

Amanitore/Nubia [20] (23-3) She's the only one left who has a "bad" spawn bias (tier 2 for deserts, I believe). This might sound like splitting hairs, but in a recent game it showed: she spawned on flat desert next to the coast, she had tiny unproductive cities, and she put up no fight when I invaded her (as Poland).
John Curtin/Australia [23] (22+1) On the topic of spawn biases: his coastal bias plays into his hands, as it gives him extra housing and more of those all-important breathtaking spots.
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [32]
Poundmaker/Cree [24]
Seondeok/Korea [20]
Teddy Roosevelt [12]

 

[Solver]

Amanitore/Nubia [20]
John Curtin/Australia [23]
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [33] (32 + 1) The most consistently powerful AI in my experience. Cannot make the mistake of going for too much religion, which seems to does wonders for the AI performance.
Poundmaker/Cree [24]
Seondeok/Korea [20]
Teddy Roosevelt [9] (12 - 3) Fearsome if you start next to him, certainly one of the last civs you want to fight an early war against, but that's it. Doesn't make good use of his military bonus to expand.

 

[Loderingo]

Amanitore/Nubia [21] - 20+1 - An early threat but also builds a strong empire due to the extra production
John Curtin/Australia [23]
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [33]
Poundmaker/Cree [24]
Seondeok/Korea [20]
Teddy Roosevelt [6] - 9 - 3 Easy to befriend

 

[Icicle]

Amanitore/Nubia [22] (21+1) Most underrated atm.
John Curtin/Australia [23]
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [33]
Poundmaker/Cree [21] (24-3) The time has come I must downvote someone I have previously upvoted and I must ask myself who I can justify voting against. I went back and forth between Cree and America as I can't justify downvoting the others yet, and while I agree that America is very front-loaded in threat to the player, the degree of that threat is so high I think they're more likely to cost you the game than Cree. So, sorry buddy!
Seondeok/Korea [20]
Teddy Roosevelt [6]

 

[ADHansa]

Amanitore/Nubia [23] (22+1) Pew, pew, pew and i'm dead, were i would have stood firm against anyone else.
John Curtin/Australia [20] (23-3) Last remaining leader i haven't bin defeated by.
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [33]
Poundmaker/Cree [21]
Seondeok/Korea [20]
Teddy Roosevelt [6]

 

[JimmyLex]

Amanitore/Nubia [23]
John Curtin/Australia [21]. +1. Consistently a top performer.
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [33]
Poundmaker/Cree [21]
Seondeok/Korea [17]. -3. Never leveraged her science advantage in any game I’ve faced her
Teddy Roosevelt [6]

 

[TCBB]

Amanitore/Nubia [23]
John Curtin/Australia [22] (21+1)
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [30] (33-3) It seems we are moving towards acceptance that Kongo are the best. I’d like to argue against this. Consider the following. No matter who you’re playing as on Deity, if you’re worried about an opponent you can usually rely on attacking them with a Cuirassier rush in order to stop their challenge. If you attack Australia, he’ll put up a fight: he loves to build military as it is, and his +100% production will only help this. You’ll probably still win the war, but at least it’ll be a challenge with the number of troops in your way. Kongo on the other hand will probably roll over and die. His unique unit is meh, he’s nowhere near as inclined to build military, and he doesn’t receive any defensive bonuses to help him out (à la Teddy, Australia, or Amanitore). So what’s the use of his ‘strong’, ‘well-built’ empire if you can just waltz in and take it off him?
Poundmaker/Cree [21]
Seondeok/Korea [17]
Teddy Roosevelt [6]

 

[Chefofrats]

Amanitore/Nubia [23]
John Curtin/Australia [19] (22-3) Yeah, he can be scary when you declare war on him and suddenly his every city spews out a new miliary unit every turn, but... Usually he is the agressor, declaring war right and left on everybody and their grandmother. I do not like to declare war on him, but usually I don't have to. How is playing against its biggest strength proof that the AI plays well as Australia? Oh, and has anybody ever seen him actually liberate a city? I know I have not.
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [31] (30+1) Can you waltz in and take his empire? Sure, but that is true of any AI civ (a bit harder in the case of Australia, IF they don't declare war first, which they often do). The thing is, the original question was, which civ can the AI play the best? Without the religion trap, Kongo on average does consistently better than any other civ. Denying it will not make it any less true.
Poundmaker/Cree [21]
Seondeok/Korea [17]
Teddy Roosevelt [6]

 

[Drivingrevilo]

Amanitore/Nubia [23]
John Curtin/Australia [20] (19+1). But @Chefofrats, a massive part of the question – 'which Civ can the AI play the best?' – involves being able to cope with human aggression. We eliminated several Civs for, essentially, being pushovers who don't defend themselves properly: e.g. Mali, Norway, China, Brazil, Gorgo. And conversely, we kept several Civs in the game for being much better at defending themselves than the average: e.g. Montezuma, Lautaro, Teddy, and now John Curtin. The way I see it, Australia and Kongo are pretty even when it comes to performance. Both do well in science, both tend to have large & productive cities, and both can challenge for victory types. However, there is a clear differential in their chances of surviving an attack by the human. Australia has both the design (+100% production) and the programming (he builds a lot of units) to defend himself competently: as @TCBB says, you'll probably still defeat him if you're a decent Civ player, but it'll be a right pain in the digital a**s. But Kongo has neither the bonuses nor the programming to defend himself: so if I see Mvemba in the game, I know that I can crush him easily at any point if I feel that he is getting out of control. This has to be considered when weighing up 'which Civ can the AI play best?'.
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [28] (31-3)
Poundmaker/Cree [21]
Seondeok/Korea [17]
Teddy Roosevelt [6]

 

[The Highwayman]

Amanitore/Nubia [23]
John Curtin/Australia [17] [20-3] He suffers similarly to other AI in regards to district building/planning. I'd rather declare on him than Lautoro, whose +10 on Deity can be brutal. His science can potentially be like AI Korea, but it's less consistent in my experience.
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [28]
Poundmaker/Cree [21]
Seondeok/Korea [18] [17+1] Her science output has disrupted more of my games in several different ways.
Teddy Roosevelt [6]

 

[Leucarum]

Amanitore/Nubia [23]
John Curtin/Australia [14] [17-3] At this point in an elemination thread opinions tend to be kind of baked in. He's top tier in player hands but needs subtlety that the AI squanders. His agenda does him no favours causing him to lose his defensive bonus.
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [28]
Poundmaker/Cree [21]
Seondeok/Korea [18]
Teddy Roosevelt [7] (6+1) I'd probably downvote after Curtin is out if he was still around. He's scary to start next to but easy to befriend. Still going to help him survive one more vote.

 

[bengalryan9]

Amanitore/Nubia [23]
John Curtin/Australia [15] (14+1) Did you all ever stop to think that maybe the reason he's so willing to declare war is because he almost always has more numerous and more advanced troops with a deeper treasury than his neighbors? It's not a coincidence lol. He gets stupidly easy bonuses on his four most important districts. Usually +1 and often +3 (this is his *actual* biggest strength, the +100% production is just an added layer of protection). What subtlety is needed when he just instantly out does you at everything? Be glad the AI doesn't do as good a job at maximizing appeal as a human player does - if he did he'd be unstoppable instead of just very good. He's the only one left with no hole in his game. He can out tech and out culture Nubia, Cree, and America easily and he can defend himself better than Kongo and Korea while keeping pace with them in areas that are supposedly their strengths. In the last few days we've had Australia get downvoted in the same post where it's said he "can be a monster" and in the same post where it's said "his science can potentially match Korea" as if these things are meaningless. Y'all are nuts.
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [28]
Poundmaker/Cree [21]
Seondeok/Korea [18]
Teddy Roosevelt [4] (7-3) Far and away the worst left on the list. It's not even close. If he doesn't rush you and kill you (which, again, any deity AI can do with or without Teddy's CS bonus out of sheer numbers advantage), he can't do anything. He might give you a hard time in 1 out of every 10 games and that's only if he spawns next to you... and some how that makes him a candidate for top 5? Come on...

 

[enKage]

Amanitore/Nubia [20] 23-3 i want to give Curtin a breath. I have a feeling more likely to go religious than others and after few eras, in opposite to everyone except Curtin, gets weaker. No snowball effect
John Curtin/Australia [15]
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [28]
Poundmaker/Cree [21]
Seondeok/Korea [18]
Teddy Roosevelt [5] 4+1 weaker military than Nubia first 2 eras, weaker in science than Curtin first 3 era, somehow high ahead of both from renessaince and above. Wild card?

 

[Jewelrunna]

Amanitore/Nubia [20]
John Curtin/Australia [15]
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [28]
Poundmaker/Cree [21]
Seondeok/Korea [19] (18 + 1) IMO, Korea should be in second place right now. Early game, yes, there's a decent amount of counterplay to starting next to Korea--simply rush her before the science boosts really start to kick in. That said, no Civ in the game is more dangerous than Korea if you start far away from them and can't do anything about them. They will waltz down the tech tree, building up an near insurmountable science lead, meaning you can't invade their superior army to kneecap them or catch up to them in a Scientific victory. You basically at that point have to hope for a Religious, Culture, or Diplomatic Victory. (Alternatively, invade the rest of the world for a Domination Victory and hope the tech you get from the rest of the map combined is enough to catch up to Seondeok.)
Teddy Roosevelt [2] (5 - 3) Out of all the Civs left here, Teddy's the one that I'd be least worried about leaving alone for half the game. Yeah, he's a scary neighbor, but even then you can abuse the bad AI to your advantage. I'd personally be more scared of a Nubia or Aztec rush as opposed to Teddy. He is probably the worst nightmare in a game where you're trying to go for a Cultural Victory though.

 

[DWilson]

Amanitore/Nubia [20]
John Curtin/Australia [15]
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [28]
Poundmaker/Cree [18] (21-3) Not sure why, but for me Poundmaker is never successful. I often ally him, and end up spending a fair bit of time preventing the AI from killing and bullying him.
Seondeok/Korea [20] (19+1) Korea is usually the hardest AI for me to kill, due to their tech and defensive tendencies. That means they're better able to compete until the late game.
Teddy Roosevelt [2]