[GS] Rate the civs in the hands of the AI - elimination thread

[zandermander]

Amanitore/Nubia [26]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [18]
John Curtin/Australia [26]
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [32]
Poundmaker/Cree [24]
Seondeok/Korea [22] -- 21 + 1: Agree that Korea seems quite underrated at the moment, I've never seen another civ run away with the tech lead quite like they can.
Teddy Roosevelt [23]
Trajan/Rome [8] -- 11 - 3: Rome under Trajan seems clearly the worst of the remaining civs to me. Solid all-around abilities, but nothing spectacular. Legions can be annoying, but I seldom find that warfare in the classical era is necessary (the way an ancient war might be if you start immediately adjacent to an AI), so I'll just attack him later on if I need to conquer him.

 

[Loderingo]

Amanitore/Nubia [26]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [18]
John Curtin/Australia [26]
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [32]
Poundmaker/Cree [25] - 24+1 - One more vote for a solid empire builder who often challenges at the top
Seondeok/Korea [22]
Teddy Roosevelt [20] - 23-3 - Can be a problem early game but it is also possible to befriend him. Doesn't really leverage his late game UUs very well
Trajan/Rome [8]

 

[kaspergm]

Amanitore/Nubia [26]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15] (18-3) See below.
John Curtin/Australia [26]
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [32]
Poundmaker/Cree [25]
Seondeok/Korea [22]
Teddy Roosevelt [20]
Trajan/Rome [9] (8+1) Consistently performs better than Genghis in my games.

 

[Icicle]

Amanitore/Nubia [27] (26+1) Good early, terrifying with the jump to crossbows, and pretty solid throughout the game.
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
John Curtin/Australia [26]
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [32]
Poundmaker/Cree [25]
Seondeok/Korea [22]
Teddy Roosevelt [20]
Trajan/Rome [6] (9-3) The worst left.

 

[TCBB]

Amanitore/Nubia [24] (27-3) I'm not sold that she's the second best. Yes, she has an absolutely terrifying early unit. However, she suffers from what I call 'lazy AI syndrome'. The AI seems to have a strange habit of upgrading the first two levels of units (e.g. slingers/archers into crossbows, warriors into swordsmen, chariots into knights), but nothing after that. In Amanitore's case, this means she builds a massive army of early Pitati which she then upgrades into crossbows. But she'll keep them as crossbows well into the renaissance or industrial eras. Seondeok has the same problem with her Hwacha, which you'll find sitting there like lemmings in the atomic era. In any case, just rush cuirassiers & field cannons and they'll rip these outdated crossbows to shreds.
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
John Curtin/Australia [27] (26+1) With due respect @enKage, your argument is ..... not good. With the exception of Mongolia & Teddy, you've identified very specific moments where the other contenders will be defensively strong (Amanitore & Pitati; Mvemba & Ngao; Seondeok & Hwacha; Trajan & Legions), and you've used that to claim that they're better than Australia. But these are individual power spikes confined to a time window. Australia gets a defensive bonus for the entire game. That's the crucial difference. Also, you're not considering how good his science is. For most of the game he'll have more advanced units than you, which is basically the same as having a +5 or +10 combat strength advantage.
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [32]
Poundmaker/Cree [25]
Seondeok/Korea [22]
Teddy Roosevelt [20]
Trajan/Rome [6]

 

[Drivingrevilo]

Amanitore/Nubia [24]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
John Curtin/Australia [27]

Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [29] (32-3);
1.) Mvemba's lack of religion is generally considered an advantage, as he can't waste time on early holy sites or apostle spam. But it also makes him the only Civ in the game to be locked out of an entire win condition.
2.) Moreover, he is also the only Civ in the game who helps others achieve their win condition, since he spawns their religion's apostles when completing a theatre square or Mbanza.
In other words, if you're a human player who enjoys going religion (like me), seeing Mvemba spawn is your dream. Not only is he powerless to stop your religious victory – he'll even help you achieve it!

Poundmaker/Cree [26] (25+1) For most of the Civs remaining, you can neutralise one or more of their bonuses by simply befriending them. For example, Amanitore can't flex her archers if she's allied to you; Mongolia can't crush you with horses if he's your friend; Australia can't get their +100% production bonus if you never attack him; Korea can't utilise her superior troops if she's your friend; et cetera. But this isn't the case with Poundmaker – in fact, if you ally with him you're actively playing into his strengths, not neutralising them.

Seondeok/Korea [22]
Teddy Roosevelt [20]
Trajan/Rome [6]

 

[Leucarum]

Amanitore/Nubia [24]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
John Curtin/Australia [27]
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [30] (29+1) As someone who really dislikes the religion game, Mvemba is more of a pain than most. Usually the best developed civ on the map.
Poundmaker/Cree [26]
Seondeok/Korea [22]
Teddy Roosevelt [20]
Trajan/Rome [3] (6-3) A pretty good AI civ. Hard for even the computer to mess up, but probably time to go.

 

[Arithmion]

]Amanitore/Nubia [24]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
John Curtin/Australia [27]
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [30]
Poundmaker/Cree [26]
Seondeok/Korea [22]
Teddy Roosevelt [21] (20+1) Even if he's an era behind in tech, difficulty bonuses and his home advantage mean his swordsmen act like musketmen. I think he deserves to be ahead of Korea.
Trajan/Rome Eliminated (3-3) I'll put the nail in the coffin. Even though I find Genghis consistently performs worse. (If I had a nickel for every time he was three eras behind....)

 

[The Highwayman]

Amanitore/Nubia [25] [24+1] Sure, anyone can send their 5 warriors to seal your doom early, but she has an extended window of terror with those archers.
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
John Curtin/Australia [24] [27-3] If he doesn't have breathtaking, his science really isn't any better than other Deity AI. He can be just as spare as any other civ with poor district planning. I'm not declaring on him in a non dom game. It doesn't matter if someone else does - my defenses will simply get more xp as the AI can't take walled cities with ranged units. I may have to pick my spots more efficiently in a dom game, but I can probably sucker him into declaring on me since that what he seems to do. How often does he liberate? Not often in my experience. He can have strong games no question, but the same can be said for all on the list.
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [30]
Poundmaker/Cree [26]
Seondeok/Korea [22]
Teddy Roosevelt [21]

 

[Loderingo]

Amanitore/Nubia [25]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [16] - 15+1 - Another vote for one of the strongest warmongers. Yes, he is unlikely to win domination but we can use his conquered cities to challenge for SV or CV
John Curtin/Australia [24]
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [30]
Poundmaker/Cree [26]
Seondeok/Korea [22]
Teddy Roosevelt [18] - 21 -3 - Think he should be next to go as easy to befriend and doesn't challenge for victory much

Was thinking it would be interesting to start a game as Maori with the remaining 7 on a pangaea map. Settle a 1 tile island city in the tundra somewhere and see who wins.

 

[bengalryan9]

Amanitore/Nubia [25]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [16]
John Curtin/Australia [25] (24+1) People really tend to exaggerate how difficult it is for Australia to get breathtaking appeal - it's not. The AI won't chop woods, so there's a bunch of appeal to surrounding tiles. Australia starts on the coast, so there's a bunch of appeal to those tiles. Every holy site, theater square, and entertainment complex he builds grants more appeal to surrounding tiles, which encourages the AI to cluster the districts increasing the bonus adjacency even further. If he has rivers nearby you're even more screwed. While the AI is nowhere near as effective at maximizing this bonus as a human player, it's such an easy bonus to take advantage of they can't help but benefit. Put all of this on top of the production bonus (which he *will* use on troops whether you want to admit it or not), early and resourceless infantry that also have combat strength bonuses, and a pretty good outback station and Australia is the total package.
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [30]
Poundmaker/Cree [23] (26-3) "Oh no, an AI Cree is in my game", said no one ever. Not bad, but not scary at all. Poundmaker and Teddy are neck and neck for worst remaining on the list IMO.
Seondeok/Korea [22]
Teddy Roosevelt [18]

 

[Icicle]

Amanitore/Nubia [25]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [13] (16-3) Never actually seen the AI make use of their special trade bonuses.
John Curtin/Australia [25] .
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [31] (30+1) I don't think there is a stronger buff to the AI than removing decisions for them.
Poundmaker/Cree [23] .
Seondeok/Korea [22]
Teddy Roosevelt [18]

 

[Chefofrats]

Amanitore/Nubia [25]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [10] (13-3) You wouldn't take a sheep's bladder and call it a winning civ.
John Curtin/Australia [25] .
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [32] (31+1) By far the best of the civs left, I've never seen Kongo do badly.
Poundmaker/Cree [23] .
Seondeok/Korea [22]
Teddy Roosevelt [18]

 

[TCBB]

Amanitore/Nubia [25]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [7] (10-3) Great at killing others, but also very easy to befriend.
John Curtin/Australia [26] (25+1) Dont get the current trend. Science & production in droves.
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [32]
Poundmaker/Cree [23]
Seondeok/Korea [22]
Teddy Roosevelt [18]

 

[Leucarum]

Amanitore/Nubia [25]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [7]
John Curtin/Australia [23] (26-3) Breathtaking spots aren't amazingly common and the AI is not that great at exploiting then. Australia is a great civ in the hands of a human but as an AI they rarely manage to be a huge threat in my games.
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [32]
Poundmaker/Cree [23]
Seondeok/Korea [22]
Teddy Roosevelt [19] (18+1) Sporadically damgerous if you start too close.

 

[bengalryan9]

Amanitore/Nubia [25]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [7]
John Curtin/Australia [24] (23+1) Breathtaking tiles aren't as rare as some seem to think. The woods that he doesn't chop? Appeal. The districts and wonders that he builds? Appeal. The coast that he starts next to? Appeal. The occasional river or mountain? Even more appeal. All of these are cumulative. While the AI is by no means brilliant at planning out how to maximize appeal, it'll still stumble on to plenty of breathtaking tiles by accident during the course of the game. Put it this way - the next time you play a game with Mapuche, look at how many chemamulls you see (which can ONLY be built on breathtaking tiles). Will you see as many as you'd see if they were under human control? No, but you'll still see plenty of them because those locations just naturally occur all over the place as a game progresses. Meanwhile for Australia, even his *average* non-breathtaking district placements still get +1 adjacency compared to everyone else in the game so even his cities without those breathtaking tiles are outproducing you. Your campus next to a coral reef is +2, his is at least +3. Your theater square next to a wonder is +2, his is at least +3. Your riverside commercial hub is +2, his is at least +3. This is at minimum and it's happening in ALL of his cities. Good luck keeping up.
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [32]
Poundmaker/Cree [23]
Seondeok/Korea [22]
Teddy Roosevelt [16] (19-3) ONLY dangerous if you are close. I can think of maybe one situation where I'd give Teddy an advantage over Curtin and that's if they decide to rush you very early in the game (in which case Teddy's advantage is basically just overkill anyways). You might argue that Teddy would be better at defending himself than Curtin if you tried to attack, but I don't even think I'd agree with that... Curtin will most likely have more advanced and more numerous troops with a huge production boost. Teddy has that +5 combat strength bonus and pretty much nothing else... if he's not a problem early, he won't be a problem at all.

 

[Drivingrevilo]

Amanitore/Nubia [22] (25-3) All Civs seem to struggle with upgrading from Crossbows into Field Cannons. This hits Nubia hardest.
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [7]
John Curtin/Australia [25] (24+1) You say they ‘rarely manage to be a huge threat’ in your games. I say ‘they’re consistently the biggest threat in my games’.
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [32]
Poundmaker/Cree [23]
Seondeok/Korea [22]
Teddy Roosevelt [16]

 

[The Highwayman]

Amanitore/Nubia [22]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [7]
John Curtin/Australia [22] [25-3] He can be a monster, I'm not questioning that. But my experiences may be differ since I play mostly peaceful games and won't declare. We're probably splitting hairs with the remaining since we're talking AI after all.
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [32]
Poundmaker/Cree [23]
Seondeok/Korea [22]
Teddy Roosevelt [17] [16+1] Common to see second place finishes on the score board. Bully for you, Mr. President.

 

[Icicle]

Amanitore/Nubia [23] (22+1) She good.
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [4] (7-3) Time to gallop off into the sunset.
John Curtin/Australia [22].
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [32]
Poundmaker/Cree [23]
Seondeok/Korea [22]
Teddy Roosevelt [17].

 

[PenngwynXVII]

Amanitore/Nubia [23]
Genghis Khan/Mongolia [1] (4-3) Genghis who?
John Curtin/Australia [22].
Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [32]
Poundmaker/Cree [24] (23+1) Poundcake is often my bestie... Until I realize he is about to run away with a culture victory, forcing me to declare war instead of renewing the alliance. (Leading to the inevitable Betrayal Emergency...)
Seondeok/Korea [22]
Teddy Roosevelt [17].