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RB Reload Request

Discussion in 'Team CivFanatics' started by YossarianLives, Jul 13, 2013.

  1. classical_hero

    classical_hero In whom I trust

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    This is yet another reason as to why we should eliminate RB, since their misclicks are causing division. :mischief:
     
  2. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    :) Part of being admin is to have thick skin. It is impossible utopia to expect everyone will like your judging. But we need someone to judge, otherwise we will just argue forever over each thing and even then there will be a lot more parties/players feel unjust treated.

    For the health of the game, decisions must be taken.

    And also, players must not be criticized or punished by threats of quit if they dont 100% agree with the admin decision too. Everyone have right on opinion.
     
  3. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

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    this seems to me like best way to proceed with game...
     
  4. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

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    btw while we're on the topic of reloads.... I will just offer plako to visit HOF, GOtM side of our site to see our strong policy regarding competitions and reloads.

    I remember SGOTM where one of the teams gave away city to AI and had to stick with the decision...and they eventually came 2nd (or maybe even 1st?)...

    so we have really strict policy regarding reloads... unless crashed game...no reloads and you have to stick with everything you do ingame.

    of course in strategy & tips this policy is not that strict, but that is different matter.

    edit:
    actually even in the case of reload from crashed game you have to make your best to repeat all your moves you did before the crash... and before submitting the game to HOF you have to contact admin about the crash (if I remember right)
     
  5. plako

    plako Emperor

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    This is not a competition like those SP events you mentioned. Other teams have a big difference in the investment and skill levels, map is not totally balanced, numerous other random things e.g. in war can happen... I'm just trying to say that it is best to give up the illusion of true competition and focus on having fun. One part of this attitude is that I prefer flexibility and fairness. I could have set a precedence here that reloads are very hard to get. However this is not how I feel these games are at their best. This game lasts probably ~2 years, unless it collapses like the MTDG1 did. It is very demoralizing when potentially months of planning is ruined just because of misclick e.g. caused by careless team mate just logging in to "take a look".

    I was probably too much in a rush and waiting for 24h at minimum would have been better.

    I think it would be best if you go on with me just a side spectator. Sommerswerd was strongly against my election and vranasm has now questioned my objectivity. I don't think I could effectively work, when one of the key teams has several members doubting my objectivity.
     
  6. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

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    i would like if you would more view it as pointing out couple of mistakes you did handling this situation and maybe some view how I would like that to be handled better next time...

    the other parts are my feelings and could/should be ignored, because as I said the team is democratic in principle and taking team decisions is always tricky one when in principle everyone has the same weight.
     
  7. plako

    plako Emperor

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    Getting tired of these. What are these couple of mistakes made? I made the desicion probably too fast (Is this really a big problem), but still there is no reason to belive it was a wrong one. I still see that majority from you are not against it.
     
  8. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

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    last response from me before I will drop the matter

    1) time aspect - you didn't allow us time to make our decision

    2) you're wrong about us not being against it -

    a) we didn't make the decision yet
    b) this thread itself doesn't warrant you claiming us agreeing with the reload allowance

    even our 2 turn players are conflicting on this matter

    bistrita clearly stated he is against, metra is in favor

    bowsling is against (supports bistrita), yossa is for allowance
    sommers and magno wants germany opinion
    i am against reloads as principle (thats my HOF, GOTM experience I was referring)

    classical_hero is for allowance...
    (and if I forgot someone I apologize, didn't recheck the last page before posting, that's from memory)

    i still don't see the "majority" for allowing the reload

    but still... the team didn't make any decision yet...


    For some reloads are trivial matter, for me not. And sorry team has full responsibility for everyone who has access to the game itself.

    For example I even don't have keys to our side and watching from SS's for couple of reasons... one of them being that I can't screw the game this way.

    I am not sure if such reloads (honest mistake) have to be agreed by teams, but from the short procedure that happened I guess it's that way and you only assumed our team decision.
     
  9. plako

    plako Emperor

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    Germans weren't really affected by this reload. I've no reason to belive they would have objected. Only your team has 3 members objecting (only 1 when I made the desicion). Even if your official team desicion would have been against, I still could have granted it (I probably wouldn't, but I could have).
     
  10. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    Sorry for my part in this disagreement. I probably posted too quickly that the team was generally ok with the reload if the Germans were. I just wanted to get the game moving again.

    We do need Plako to remain as admin (or to have someone as admin). I think the discussion in this thread shows that if we did not have someone to make a decision, we could have been stuck with the game on pause for days while we argued publicly how to proceeded. That would have been very bad for this game. I really hope plako decides to stay on.
     
  11. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    :) I can only imagine the rain of stones and fire that fell over poor KJNoren's head in the RB forum.

    This is good position. Admin must have authority. We accept what the admin decides. For me personal, I already said I am OK with the reload and I told why I think it is OK.

    Only few things have made me have strange feeling about the reload.
    - comparing it to our reload because of game crash is not correct (and it was game crash and bug - we were turned in to AI like 2 minutes after the game crashed and another player/s were reporting crashes to desktop in this period)
    - saying that RB's inconvenience is significant and the Germans are not affected from this - one after another - sounds strange to me. RB and Germans are at war and each difficulty for one of them is plus for the other.
     
  12. plako

    plako Emperor

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    These are as strange as you asking me to continue earlier and now questioning my reasoning.
     
  13. Bowsling

    Bowsling Deity

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    I don't see how the two are mutually exclusive at all.
     
  14. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    Wow, just read the public thread. What a mess with CivFr now needing a reload. They definitely need to have their reload since they lost most of the moves they had already made before the reload, through no fault of their own. That is, unless disabling the apt mod would allow them to play on "our" half of the turn, just for this turn. Magno, do you know if this would work?

    @Plako, my personal opinion (and what I think is the majority opinion, but I want to be careful speaking on behalf of our team) is that you should stay on because this game needs an admin, but we should be able to question the decisions of the admin in our private thread without worrying about offending you or making you want to quit. Admin is a difficult job that will result in people disagreeing with you, but as 2metra said you need to have a thick skin and stand by your decisions and your position even if we question them. You are the one who has access to all the private threads, not us, so you know more about what is going on in the game than anyone else. That does not mean every decision you make will always be perfect, so I hope you listen to the concerns expressed in the private threads, but ultimately you are the only one with the authority and knowledge to make the decisions needed to keep this game moving.

    I hope you reconsider and decide to stay on. I really appreciate the workthat your doing and recognize it's a thankless job.
     
  15. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

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    well in SGOTM people usually accept it and move on ;-).

    i remember first SGOTM where I started to be involved with Phoenix Rising Lymond launching GA with wrong mixture of GP's ;-) now that was also very fun.... after few days though :)

    it was something well remembered for a lot of time and not sure if he was even allowed to launch GA again :-D.
     
  16. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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    Whoa whoa WHOA THERE!!! WTF is that?!?! Why the f@ck is my name being mentioned:confused:!!?!?!

    For the record, I said NOTHING against plako's decision. My opinion is that he is admin, period, the end. He makes decision, that's final. I have NO COMMENT WHATSOEVER, and I really don't appreciate one bit for you to imply that you wanting to quit is my fault in any way.:nono:
     
  17. plako

    plako Emperor

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    I probably should just shut up. I'm just too annoyed by this nitpicking. Clearly my biggest mistake is to be part of this discussion. I guess this is one more valuable lesson. As admin you should just give your resolution and not bother with reasoning.

    Sommerwerd I urge you to read what I wrote and compare it to your answer. They don't match. You haven't had a role in this debacle. However you were strongly against my election and has had something against me being admin right from the beginning e.g. way back when I volunteered as being co-admin with r_rolo you torpedoed that down with personal message asking me to step away.

    Concerning the questions 2Metra raised:
    * You turning to AI was only reload case so far so only one that I can use as presedence. It is totally reasonable to assume that it could have been misclick. Is it event that relevant if it was misclick or not? I would have granted the reload in both cases
    * Germans were not affected in a sense that RB did not gain anything extra from the misclick itself. Of course reversing it will be harmful to Germans and every other team that would like to see RB delayed. If it wouldn't be, then they wouldn't have asked for a reload.
     
  18. bistrita

    bistrita Warlord

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    It wasnt a misclick we turned Ai some time after i was logged out.And game kept crashing then if you remeber right so i do personaly think that shouldnt be in your resoning why you granted reload.

    And you right about second part if knew you should do just do it.
     
  19. Calis

    Calis on time

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    Read what he wrote!!
     
  20. Bowsling

    Bowsling Deity

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    The lesson learned here IMO is that the admin should not read threads pertaining to the adminning of the game itself, and should be notified of the team's decision once it has been made. This thread and the last one have gotten way too personal. :(
     

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