RB15: Taking The Long View

We *have* no production until we kill Mansa. On the other hand, yes, we probably do.

We may yet be saved by Freddy simply not having enough time, though I wouldn't bank on it. I'm prepared to bet Hatty doesn't have enough time, given her tech situation, at least.
 
Lurker's Comment

*puts his hands in the air as the roller coaster heads down the tracks... or is that up the tracks?*

I'm just baffled by how powerful the culture bar is - it's amazing to be almost bankrupt purely because your citizens are just. too. angry.

Keep fighting, though! It's Fred's game to lose. ;) Remember, the longer you keep Fred at war, the less hammers he'll put towards the astroboat.

G'luck!
 
I have the save and will play and post now. Things look serious, especially that +14gpt at 0% science, I mean if things get much worse we will be disbanding units :eek: . I hope that I can zip this file to less than 500K, if not I will have to email it to someone.

-Atlas
 
Atlas* said:
I have the save and will play and post now. Things look serious, especially that +14gpt at 0% science, I mean if things get much worse we will be disbanding units :eek: . I hope that I can zip this file to less than 500K, if not I will have to email it to someone.

-Atlas

Lurker's comment: You can upload files of up to 5 MB to the civfanatics site and link to them in your message. Click on "upload file" at the bottom of any forum page.
 
T0-2005 (45 turns left) Wow, we are at -5gpt at 0% science:cringe:. Thank
god we have 300+ in the bank. Okay most cities are between 5-15
population and all are starving, some by full pop. points in 2 turns
:eek:!!!! When I read the thread I agreed with Jabah about not
whipping/drafting more and conserving some people to produce when we
take the war to Fred, but I am afraid that there won't be anybody
left, I see more whipping. The way I figure it, those pop. points
are gone any way, I might as well get something for them. I whip
and draft in France/China in the hopes of staving off the invasion
force. When Garath said it was thin over here he was not joking.
Unfortuantely most cities are already too small to draft or whip a
modern unit. I do it where possible. If we have any luck Freddy
will land near a city, I will pour units into it, he will attack and
we can hopefully use the city to conserve some units through the
cultural defense. This is what I hope. Worst case scenario, he
lands on a hill and starts scattering his units. We have one unit
is each city, so a few lucky dice rolls and he could own half our
continent if he does that. There is nothing to upgrade over here
and if there were, there is no money with which to do so. Garath
left me with a nice stack in Mansa's land. I am unsure if we are
razing or keeping his towns, But I think I will keep them. After
all of that whipping and drafting we are now at +231 gpt :smug:, so that
really was the thing to do, we just won't be able to do it again as
now most pop. levels are too low.The turn log shows that Freddy completed the docking bay in 2005.

T1 2006 (44 turns left)-Freddy landed next to Chartres. I fill it
with units as best as a I can. Freddy brough 4 Mech. Inf. 1 Panzer,
2 Cavalry, and 5 Artillery. Next turn we will see what he brings.
Now on the West coast of Mali, I have a problem. I got 2 tanks and
3 Navy Seals, facing a city with one Mech., 3 artillery, and 2 Sam
Infantry. I have no way to bomb down the defense of 60%. There are
no nearby Transports, I am afraid that these guys are just toast,
**** I just moved them and now the transports show up. These late
game wars are tough, I spend the first 2 turns just figuring out
where all my units are! Even after spending 30 minutes looking at
Turn 0!! The loss of these 5 guys will be my fault(I forgot to note when, but is save all of these guys later), lets see what I
can salvage here. Position to take Kumbali- it will be close, too
close and it will be razed (i don't want them getting it back).
BRING IT ON (i hit enter :)!)

T2 2007 (43 turns left)- The plan worked kind of, Freddy attacked
Chartres without bombing down the 20% defense, he razed the city.
Now we have a real problem, I emptied almost every city to put units
into that city, lets see if we can salvage this, even if I do, many
cities will be undefended. Hatty has Mass Media, couldn't she build
the UN!!!! The south of France should hold, no guarantees, but
should we get some really bad luck, then we will get steam rolled on
this whole continent, reinforecement are 3 turns away! The battle
for Kumble Sahel, is not going so well, bomb down the defenses, CR2
Modern armor still only 55%, so I send it 2 suicide artillery, now
85%, and still I lose, now I lose an Armor at 80%. NNow for the bad
news, all of that whipping has put our score below Freddy's now, by
like 40 points. I don't know how this can continue, I may try and
make peace soon. I just need one or two more cities from Mansa. Of
course neither he nor freddy will talk.

T3 2008 42turns left- the threat from Freddy's landing force is
elimiated, however Chartres will now be replace by a Greek city, as
Alex (the rat) snuck a infantry settler pair there from Pergamon.
Still no one will go to war with anyone. Okay I moved 2 modern
armor over to Franc/china and 2 navy seals, they are all in Beijing
as that is sort of centrall located.

T4 2009- Walata fall, move some units around, I think we have enough
units to take one or two more of mansa's cities, but We will not
finish him, we will need peace soon or all of our cities will have 1
pop. point.
 

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T5 2010- Healing & Positioning

T6 2011 Healing & Positioning

T7 2012- Prepared some stacks they are now advancing on Mansa's new
capital. I think Mansa is broken, he sends like one or two units a
turn, that is it. Hatty is about 130 points from us in Score and
freddy is now 130 points ahead, we need to end the war pump our
population back up and hope for the best, nobody has built any parts
during my turns so far. The last attack(s) at Mansa will be for the
next player. SO Jabah work your magic!

T8- 2013 Hatty completes the UN. Is this good or bad?? Glad it
won't happen on my turns! I think we may win, still have a lot of
pop. Pillage a Malinese Oil well on the way. I send Alex deer,
wine, and musicals for clams (we have like no fishing nets!!) and
9gpt. I do this because right now we are at +3 for fair and forth
right trade, and I want that +4, for the UN voting. Alex is the
only person that would potentially vote for us, he is pleased.

T9 2014 A German Revolt takes place in Bilma, we need to acquire
Dresden! Freddy and Mansa will both talk. I think in 5 turns the
time will be ripe, Take Dresden and then as many of Mansa's cities
as you think you can manage and then make peace. Hopefully this is
all not important since we may win the UN, Give Alex ANYTHING he is
woefully backward technologically, he will never finish the
spaceship.

T10 2-15 (35 turns left!!!) UN sec. Gen. vote comes up, we have 261
votes of a 360 needed, (902 total votes). I vote for the
illustrious RB15. Alex compeltes the Apollo Program. There you
have it we are prepared for almost finishing Mansa (if casualties
can be limited), and taking a German city, but after that we should
make peace and pump our pop back up for points and the UN elections.
Maybe if Hatty wins she will at least put everybody in Universal
Suffrage. Oh how different this game might have been if we had
nabbed the Pyramids.
Good Luck to the Next Player (Jabah I think, these 10 turns took 2
1/2 hours!). I hope we can win this baby. These will have been my
last turns, as I will now be on vacation until June, but I will
check the thread from time to time to see how it developes and what
kind of victory we get Diplo or Time.

Ps. Most of our Navy is in New York, but there are not many units to
put on those ships.

Pss. Also France/China is still pretty empty like one unit per city and then those 2 MA and 2 Navy Seals in Beijing.
 
Good work from a bad situation, I suspect. I still hope we can actually kill Mansa, myself, since he must now have all of three homeland cities and the one over on Freddy's lands. Assuming we now have the Destroyers and Battleships in place around Freddy's lands, he can't possibly land any more invasion fleets on us, so the MAs and SEALs left in France could be used to take out his off-mainland city, that I had the bad luck to fail to take some time ago.

Oh, sorry about those five units dumped next to Mansa's city, Atlas. I did mention them in passing, but not enough detail. I did genuinely put them there on purpose, I felt they were in more danger on the seas than on land since Mansa was clearly gassed already on land, and if he moved any units out of the city they could even have taken it. At the least, I thought they might form the seed of a force out of our northern cities that could meet up with them and take the city they were by.

We won't win the UN, even with both Alex and Hatty's votes, and I don't think we have Hatty's. Hopefully we will get elected, we *might* manage that, and if so I suggest we go for global Emancipation for the instant +4 Happy or so throughout our Empire, rather than even trying for the Diplo victory that will fail, at least the first time.

The Happy situation is likely to be better than it looks. Mansa's lands hold Spice, Gold and two Happy wonders, which we may have captured, I don't know where they were. Focus on getting those connected, and we may yet be able to grow our cities again. Unless we absolutely must, though that is the prerogative of the player actually playing and I may be wrong, I still think that finishing Mansa is the way to happiness, not peace. I don't want us to end up having to fight him again in the last 5 turns and starving down again.

Once Dresden falls, sign peace with Freddy either way, though. No way can we possibly be considered in a position to take the fight to him straight away, though I'm not yet certain we won't have to again later, if only to reduce his score.

Few turns left indeed Jabah. Take it when you can, but don't be lured by Atlas' suggestions that they will take so little time. My turns were definitely longer than 2.5 hours!

On the other hand, let's get this thing actually finished up, aye?

Garath
 
My last turns at war were more like 5hours than 2, but that might be because I am a bit maniac and spend some time on turn 0 to check everything.... (that is why I said I can't have it yesterday).

Jabah
 
Right now we sort of have a phony war going on with Freddy. I think that this is why he did not build any parts during my last 10 turns (he might be lacking the tech though, I can't quite remember). In any event I think that it is good since he has probably been building units instead of parts.

Garath, our pop. right now is about 1/3 of what I think it would "naturally" be, so I am not why we could not win the Diplo. vote (if we can get Alex on board). If you think diplo. is not possible (it may well be, we should know when Jabah posts his first turn), then the only reason to stop the war is to grow our pop. up enough to whip/draft another Army or two.

Right now there is like nothing in France/China, however there are some significant stacks in Mali, maybe enough to take the fight to Fred, after Mali. After Peace is made Jabah needs to go through each city and set to max food. There really is no reason why we should not have like 50% of the world population.

I also would not be opposed (depending on how Alex feels) to eliminating those annoying Eygptian cities on the Malinese continent. Anyway that is just an idea.

-Atlas
 
T0 - 2015AD
Put (almost) every cities on max growth, will rush only jail.
If starving works as in the previous Civ, we could lose only 1 pop per turn, so drafting/whipping might not be the (best) solution.

check the military advisor (F4), we can't see any german unit, good.
On the ather hand, we can spot a Malinese submarine and we have a navy not far away... so it is now at the bottom of the sea.

Press enter...

Fred wants peace and is ready to pay 900g. I will wait to remove Dresden first.

We are elected with 457/903 votes thanks to Alex.

RB15_UN_election.jpg


T1 - 2016AD
Fred builds the Space Elevator, that's not good...

Dresden is at 60% defence, 2 destroyers are working on it, but with 2 MechInf inside, it will take some time.

Capture Denver.

Good news, manage to pay Alex 1490g to declare on Fred...

T2 - 2017AD
Capture Awlil

T3 - 2018AD
Nuremberg is captured by our greek friend... (german city in greek island)
Capture Agades

T4 - 2019AD
UN vote, try emancipation (hope we can be forced to adopt even if we don't know it).
Bilma revolt and join Germany... just before we capture Dresden.
And now the moment everyone was waiting for ...

RB15_Mansa_out.jpg


Mansa out (city razed).
(and evacuate everyone of course, thanks to modern armor movement)

The Space Elevator is in Essen with a hell lots of units...
RB15_Essen.jpg


land some troops on Leipzig island...

T5 - 2020AD
UN vote unanimous...
and with Mansa gone, WW is only at a minimum level (1 in Washington), so everyone is happy.

Get Bilma back.

RB15_Leipzig_2.jpg

Lose a armor and a Seal but capture Leipzig.
Keep it as a nice launching base for further operations against Germany.

T7 - 2022AD
Try to assault Munich (defended by MachInf CD2 and 2 Sams).
1st marines died (5%) damaging the MechInf to half strength.
2nd marines got 75% and kills the MachInf.
3rd marines died (70%) against a Sam (CD2).
4th marines died (90%) against a normal Sam.
next 2 clean the mess and raze Munich.
RB15_Munich.jpg


T8 - 2023AD
New election, will try the UN victory.
(against Egypt this time)

Germany had managed to settle a new city in ex-Mali, which is razed immediatly, start tracking a MecInf that escaped.

T9 - 2024AD
We missed the UN victory by 25 votes (547/924 for 572).
RB15_election_2.jpg


A second great Engineer is born... both are waiting for idea in washington.

try to let the transport in Essen to escape to get them outside (or make them land next to Leipzig where we have some defence).

T10 - 2025AD
Bingo, 3 destroyers and 3 transports (full of 7 Panzers and 5 artillery) has set sail.
RB15_German_navy.jpg


Sink everything with our navy.
there are now only 4 defender in Essen, but unfortunatly the marines were on a trip to Bremen in the north.
At Bremen, the city is defended by a MechInf (with CG3) and 2 Sams.
The MechInf is quite hard as the 1st marines have only 1.5%, then 4%. 5 dead marines later (including the 1 left on the shore), the city is razed.

RB15_Bremen.jpg



Comments.
We have troops in all our islands, I was ferrying (slowly) the one from ex-Mali back to our main island, and then bringing them towards Leipzig.

Next goal should be to raze Essen and the space elevator, unfortunatly I killed/damaged a lot of marines recently but we should be able to send 2 full transport from Leipzig in a few turns.

The production at home should be mainly marines, as we have still loads of armors and artillery.

If we feel lucky (or bold) we might be able to try to land our army in Germany, but I am not sure of the result.
Safe way is to keep razing german cities on the seaside.

We are now back 1st and with a 650pts lead on Egypt.

Next election might even be a diplo victory..

Unhappiness is now under control, I get greece to trade horse so building a few chariot for MP is still possible, I also upgrade lots of musket/axe to Infantry to cover our new cities.

Jabah


Save should be here :
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/RB15_2025AD.zip
 
How is it that you do so much with so little, Jabah? Atlas' report left absolutely no indication that turns that good might even be possible, though I admit I hadn't looked at the save myself.

Sounds like those went brilliantly. I hadn't *dreamt* that we might end up with so little unhappiness even after killing Mansa (did we successfully get forced into Emancipation? What a coup that is!), and so I guess our population and production are getting right back to where they should be.

I guess the only real cloud on that horizon is the Space Elevator that Freddy built, but even with that I'm less and less certain he'll even manage to build the thing if we signed peace right now.

A Diplomatic Victory would seem just that little bit hollow right now, I have to say. To be sure we can get it, going by the way we added like 75 votes in 5 turns there and only need 25 more, but that's the back door, and I prefer the front! I might well not try for Diplo Victory again unless we're being threatened in some way, since there's really no rush, and it would just plain be a better end to get a military victory, or possibly even Time.

I should be able to pick this up again tomorrow, and will see how hard I can prosecute the war. At the very least Freddy will be losing some more coastal cities.

Once again, looks like a great job, Jabah! :thumbsup:

Garath
 
Fred need "only" 4 parts to finish his SS (1 thruster and 3 'big'). He didn't build any in the last 7t (he might have built 1 thruster at the beginning).
We probably can destroy the Space Elevator in Essen (initialy you could see it on Essen picture, but you have to look for it :) ).

Jabah

PS Also for coastal city, be warned that MechInfantry with City Defense (2 or worst 3) are a nightmare for our navy seals (the 2 I razed had only 1 Mech Inf & 2 Sams, and the 8 marines were almost just enough. - Leipzig was easier as in an island I could land Armors without fear).
 
Pre-turn:

Yeah, Hatty's cities on Mansaland are going to be irritating. Might have to take them out at some point or we might even see flips to her. I'll leave a few Modern Armour behind just in case.

We've got loads of cash again. If I can't find anything to do with it I'll research Genetics so we might get a Future Tech before the game is over.

Most of our Navy Seals are dead. On the other hand we have *lots* of Modern Armour if we can put enough of them in one place. I don't think we need a full stack of 8 over in France, for example, when we've got our fleet entirely surrounding Freddy, and most of his mobile units should be dead anyway now that he's sent out two full invasion fleets.

Nothing of earthshattering significance needs doing, though. Mostly cities are growing back out nicely.

Turn 1 (24 to go): Our guy on the ground where Bremen used to be dies, but that's fair enough really.

Freddy completes his last Thruster, mnot that that's really interesting.

Modern Armour can't take Amphibious. This is a great pity.

Other than that, mostly just moving stuff around. I *do* intend to make a landing (or two, to speed things up) in Germany, it'll just take a few turns to get all the troops into position. I need a few Ambush-promoted SEALS/Infantry so that the Modern Armour don't all get killed by Panzers, though.

Turn 2 (23 to go):

I choose to non-proliferate Nukes, since I don't really have much else to do Right This Second with the motions, and I can't remember whether Manhatten has been built.

I burn down Hanover for the loss of what should have only been one MA but was two (and a third on the ground) since I lost one to a SAM at 97%, from the 8 I brought over from France.

RB15hanover.jpg


And Essen. Two SEALS, and an MA on the ground.

RB15essen.jpg


Turn 3 (22 left):

One of our guys on the ground isn't even dead. Huzzah! Germany has Flight, though, so we're just beginning to get Fightered.

Turn 4 (21 left):

A bunch of units depart Stuttgart on Transports, since I moved away slightly to let them.

RB15invasionthree.jpg


So I kill them all, and then the city (one Destroyer lost, and an MA won at 15%!)

RB15stuttgart.jpg


I make a plan to build some Settlers for filling in more of Freddy's lands than Mansa's before Hatty gets there. It's worth a try, anyay.

Other notable things this turn are a victory at FIVE percent at Dortmund (sending our SEAL straight from 6 to 13xp!), and the crashing of my Civ game and attempted repetition of the turn. However, with the Eiffel Tower in the city, I actually decide to put off destroying it for a turn or two, until I make my full landing and give them bigger things to think about.

Wow! I replicated it all perfectly! Stuttgart is still dead, Dortmund is still down to an Artillery defender.

Turn 5 (20 to go):

Freddy must be gassed. He hasn't even made an effort to kill my latest guy left on the ground after a capture. Accordingly, I make the first landing with a little less strength than I had intended, heading straight for Berlin:

RB15landingforberlin.jpg


And I capture Dortmund. He might be able to do something about one of those, but not both, and I've got to get started on the inner cities at some point.
 
Turn 6 (19 to go):

One Artillery. Despite the big stack of Panzers and Mechs that were in Berlin, not only have the Panzers moved somewhere else, but only one Artillery attacked me. I'm, strangely enough, not all that scared.

I invade a bit more. No more actual assaults occur, though.

Turn 7 (18 to go):

THIS time we get Panzered. 4... mech... gunship...mech...mech... ... etc etc. Yep. We lost some stuff. Our stack-that-was is down to 7 Artillery. Blast!

That said, I'd landed a few more MAs behind it, and everything except a couple of mechs in Berlin is hurt, so I'm going to see whether I can do any damage. We're vastly outproducing him now.

I kill 3 mechs after bombarding down everything, put myself in position for the assault on Frankfurt as well... and then the game crashes again.

I'll give the computer some cooldown time and get back to this later.

Garath
 
Looks like very nice work there guys. If you can destroy Freddy, then we should have this thing wrapped up.
 
It was also quite slow on my computer (but no crashing).

I also notice some very strange AI gouvernors. For example : try to emphasize food only in Washington and the AI will work a mined plain hill (0f/5h) instead of the lake (2f/0h) (as if it was emphasing both food and production, but selecting both will result in something different as well).

Jabah
 
Turn 7 again:

Re-elected SecGen.

Repeat battle and invasions towards Frankfurt and Dusseldorf. Currently plan is just to get troops on the ground, we outnumber them.

IT: Kill a Panzer and two SAMS for no loss outside Berlin.

Turn 8 (17 to go):

Kill some stuff in Berlin and start bombarding Frankfurt. Both stand for now, though. Dusseldorf goes better, though due to the lack of defensive units in the assault force it is burned rather than captured.

RB15dusseldorf.jpg


Turn 9 (16 to go): Genetics comes in, Future Tech in 15. What timing!

Berlin and Frankfurt still stand. They're just too well defended, still.

Turn 10:

RB15frankfurt.jpg


RB15blefeld.jpg


RB15berlin.jpg


(well, there would have been more pictures there. Never mind. Frankfurt and Blefeld have also fallen to us)

Yes, I know not everything's moved. I'm already half an hour over the limit I should have been.

Have fun, Jabah! Fred's got four cities, and one of them doesn't count. You've got four settlers in the area ready for use as and when you can defend them, and there are 6-8 MAs and a couple of seals in ex-Mali for when you feel like taking on Hatty.

Garath

The save is at http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/RB15_AD-2035.Civ4SavedGame, I'm not sure how to link that in, and don't have time.
 
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