RB15: Taking The Long View

I have it, but I had all my evenings taken by RL since Monday.

I also have to play a volley-ball game tonight, so I will start it after (ie in 9h) but can't promess to finish it tonight.

The positive side is that I have nothing planned for tomorrow night, so I will be able to finish my round by then.

If someone can/want to play a round right now, no problem (just warn me before I start)

Jabah
 
No hurry there Jabah, I have finals and term papers due this week, so No Hurry ;) .
 
T0 - 1975AD
renegociate all deals as we had some new bonus (and no need to import them)

T1 - 1976AD
We get 750g for missing Rock&roll by 1t.
Frederick gets Apollo and R&R.
Sabotage at Gao (the farm on the rice - nota, it will be the case everytime we re-farm it).
Mansa gets Life Support.

We capture Shanghai (keep as will be needed against France).
RB15_Mao_out.jpg


I would like to strike France ASAP as we have very nice access to his cities right now and won't have that latter (after borders extension).
Check what I can bring next to those cities.

Our Intelligence Service (F4) says that apart from 7 cavalries in Paris, there are no major trouble to expect (that we can see - a few cannonsand cavalries in Marseilles will show up later).

Get 7 artillery next to Marseilles and 6 next to Chartres.

IBT get attacked by cannons and cavalries, but only collateral damage.

Get around 750g from missing Eiffel Tower as well

T2 - 1977AD

RB15_Marseilles.jpg


RB15_Chartres.jpg


Capture both Marseilles and Chartres without casualties, then lose 2 artillery to clear some ennemy approching.

We are 1st now.
But Mansa is probably our biggest problem.

T3 - 1978AD
Fred gets 3Gorges Dam.
quite big french Attack on Shanghai costing us a CD3 Machine gun and wounding lots of resting units, but Louis lost several cannons and cavalries.

T5 - 1980AD
Mansa builds Docking-Bay

T7 - 1982AD

RB15_Lyons.jpg


Capture Lyon.

T9 - 1984AD

RB15_Tours.jpg


Capture Tours loosing a tank (at 80%) rushing before artillery support.

T10 - 1985AD
Hatshepsut has Apollo as well.

France should be history within 5t probably.

RB15_France.jpg


Avignon should fall next turn, Orleans in 2t maximum and Rheims when we have a spare tank or 2 because there is only 1 defender there (probably 2/3t).
Only taking Paris last could be dangerous as the defence (more units than able to see, check with F4 to know exactly) is strong.

In 3t we would have composite and should upgrade tanks to modern armors.
(next research would be medecine, good for farm-fod, but our cities are often not far away from happy limits after a few turns of war - so saving cash for tank-modern armor upgrade is better)
Then we should send everything in our foothold next to Mansa and finish him.
Some Navy Seals are waiting in boats in case we want to assault his city as well.
Build a few SamInf because last time he already had a few Gunship, and don't forget to upgrade our units there (mainly cannon, but also some pike and randoms).
He has only 3 SS parts to build to launch (maybe he is still missing tech, but we should not gamble).
We now have a 150pt lead on Fred.

Jabah
 
I got the save, looks good Jabah :goodjob: . I should be able to play and post tonight. I will try and finish Louis and set up Garath for an attack on Mansa.

-Atlas
 
Something of a mixture of good and bad there, eh? On the one hand, everything that you personally did seems to have been great. Louis will fall, and we have the point lead we need, enough that if we can stop launches, we will win.

However, both wonders lost? Two more Apollo Programs built? Mansa building two more parts? That's gonna sting if we have to enter a protracted war against one of them simply to slow them down while we kill the other.

:eek: :sad:

Looks like we've still got some work to do here, folks. Mansa has to be next, and we may not have long. One thing's for sure, we can't leave him alive this time. Not even with one city on someone else's island if we can help it, though we can do that if we must. Actually, Atlas, if you seek any of those out on the map at the start of your turn then you can divert a few forces to them early on, since if we take them out then the footholds on other continents will come in very useful when it's time to attack them in turn.

Oh, and does Mansa have Mech Inf yet? I presume he does, but if not we want to rush the war as much as can be done without actually losing it, in order to do some damage before he does.

Don't fixate on setting me up, Atlas. If the position is there even one turn before the handover, make the declaration. Time is still our greatest enemy, we've got 65 turns left to survive.

Oh, and without very good reason to think otherwise, Fred is the target afterwards, before Hatty. The Three Gorges Dam will be working wonders for his production capacity.

Garath
 
AFAIK, only Mansa has started his SS. I am not sure that the other ones will manage to build a complet SS in 65t.

Also be very carefull about what to trade or not to the AI (several are lacking Aluminium), I think we are giving mainly crabs, wines and Musics.

We had no chance for the last 2 wonders, (R&R was even build before I start as I could see Music in the trade) and I reconfigured Washington to gain an extra turn on Eiffel, but we were still 3t short.

I have no idea if Mansa has MechInf, we can't get close enough to see his cities, but amphibious with artilley and marines would be easier than cannon only.

On the ground, we should have a huge stack of doom with lots of modern armors, Sams (anti gunship) and artillery and go wreck havoc.

I started some factories in middle production cities (and then coal plant as well), because of the costs of modern weapons, they don't cost more than 1.5 units so should pay for themselves if the game last longer than 25t.

Jabah
 
T0-1985 (65 turns left)- We lead in score by like 140 points. We
are currently reseaching Composites, which will finish in like 3
turns, I don't really see any reason to go further in the tech tree
than refrigderation. I like the look of things.

T1 1986-I guess we were getting Ivory for free from Alex, he cancels
the deal, no big deal, Industrialism obsoletes ivory anyway, so I
don't see that we really need to build war elephants. Mansa want to
trade pigs for Hit Musicals, forgetaboutit! I get a message that
says "The Malinese spy that was responsible was caught and
liquadated", which is good, but I can't figure out what the spy was
responsible for. Orleans falls, nice set up there Jabah. Avignon
falls. Healing up in Tours and Orleans.

T2 1987- Positioning to take Rheims. Healing. Adjust Research to
get Composites next turn with as large a remainder as possible.
Wow! There are a ton of units in Paris ! Repositioning Fleet to
load it up for the finishing of Mali.

T3 1988-Fredrick completes an SS casing. For some reason we can't
build Modern Armor. Ok, Modern Armor requires oil (we got that),
aluminum (we got that), and the tech Computers (we don't have
that:sad:). Biology is the next tech lined up. Looks like I was
wrong we do need to go to computers. I can think of a few choice
words, but will refrain :mad: and :rant:. You guys may not believe
this but I have never actually used Modern Armor, my games are over
by then or I am racing to space and just don't build them. I have
never built a modern armor and this turn set won't be my first time.
I readjust the science slider, Biology is due in 4. This tech will
be helpful. We certainly don't need Modern armor to finish France,
but who knows what Mali or Freddy have :borg: maybe? Rheims falls.
Alex just planted a city in the French areas that have not yet come
out of resistance, too bad it was not Mali. Alex is our friend. If
you also look in that picture you will see that Freddy has Mech.
Infantry and a settler looking to poach our lands too, well if he
does found somewhere that at least can be dealt with. Marseilles
gets a whipped library, I really don't want a Freddy city here.
 

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T4 1989 Freddy complets another SS Casing. Moving on Paris. I
lost Freddy's Mech Inf. and Settler pair. Positioning to take
Paris. Probably in 1992 it will happen.

T5 1990 Freddy gets 2 more SS Casing. I found Freddy and the
settler, lets see where they end up planting themselves.

T6 1991 A large attack out of Paris againist the an expeditionary
tank force. Every unit sent dies. Get the BIG stack into position.
Whip some libraries in French cities coming out of le resistance.
Biology comes in. Refrigeration in 4 or 5. Louis offers peace plus
400 gold, I think not.

T7 1992 Hatty gets an SS casing and Freddy gets another SS casing
too. Paris Falls, Lots of Caualties-------------------All French.
French are no more, regrouping units for transport.

T8 1993 Hatty ges 2 SS casings built. I think we may be in trouble.
Moving Units. Wall Street finishs in Boston.

T9 1994 Move units. As I figured the caputure of Paris opened up a
lot of land, Freddy built a city there.

T10 1995 Refridgeration comes in Computers due in 6 turns.
 

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Just so you guys know, that I will be going on vacation soon next week on like the 6 til May 26 (Jabah I will be in Paris too) and won't be able to play for that time.
 

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I suspect our best hope is to have you play your final set of turns before then, I don't want to have this game stall for another 20 days this close to the end. Guess this is why rosters tend to have more than 3 people on, huh?

I'll get it back as soon as possible. Hopefully tomorrow, Monday at the *latest*.

On the other hand, the game looks fine. Freddy and Hatty building Casings doesn't interest me at all, they were always going to do that. It's the larger parts that make a difference, and if even Mansa didn't build any of those, we're ahead of the game. Not that we aren't likely to have to hit them both before we're done, but still. Hopefully I'm decently set up to have a good stab at the rest of Mansa's lands in my 10.

Garath
 
Garath

I suspect that you will be gathering and positioning for about the first 5 turns, then declare war and fight for the last 5 turns. I don't know what Mansa has, but we have some pretty highly promoted tanks and artillery in France/China there so in 6 turns when Computers come in and Modern Armor is available we should upgrade.

Freddy's SS Casings only worry me because he is building them so quickly. I think he will likely have a problem teching and building to the end. Who knows though?

I would like to see one more round of action though before I go on vacation.

-Atlas
 
Thoughts, on picking up the save:

1) Freddy has Mechs, since we can see one at Bonn, the city he founded in ex-France. Given that Mansa's built the Ship part at Robotics, so must he. This ain't going to be easy. Neither of them have built the Space Elevator yet, but both of them (at least) have the capacity to do so. If Freddy gets it this could... get... hairy. To be honest it's probably ideal for Mansa to do so, assuming he doesn't have Fusion yet.

2) The main stack is still in ex-China, and there aren't enough Transports nearby to take it over to Mali immediately. Yep, I'm going to be a few turns before declaring war, yet.

3) There are 7 Artillery and a Tank scattered around France, together with a *very* thin defensive force. I decide to leave them there for when we need to kill Bonn.

4) The Giant Stack Of Troops has not moved, and is next to a stack of transports that has not moved, but the turn claims to be over! What's going on? I load as much as possible up and get moving. Lots of it is healing, sure, but there are going to be two trips anyway, and if healing is the priority it should really have been in the city next door. I get 12 units onto the transports immediately, and divert two of the ones that have been waiting around at home over there to pick up the remaining 8.

5) I decide that if it's going to be 5-6 turns before I can declare anyway, I might as well send the new fleet of mostly marines round to the back of Mansa's territory, to catch him in a pincer movement and avoid having to travel through quite so much of his culture to get at anything useful. They head round the left side of Mansa's continent, to join up with another Destroyer there.

6) Mansa has only one city on another continent, which is on the far side of Freddy's lands from our home. I will divert a transport of stuff over there to kill it once I can afford to, since even though it's on the wrong side it may well prove useful in invading Freddy later, and I don't want to leave Mansa alive after this war if I can help it.

7) Nobody is unhappy, and we have loads of cities, producing a good mix of units. Excellent. Overall I think we could do with a bit more fleet, I'll get a couple more ships built as things finish up. Otherwise we're building the last few other things before it's Modern Armour all the way out, I suspect, since we'll never get Mech Infantry.

8) Tech-wise, we're looking good for Computers. I'd like to get at least one unit of Future Tech before the game ends just for the principle of the thing, since that was our first tech choice and we should really get there at some point. ;) On the other hand, I may turn off research for a couple of turns of upgrades of Tanks before we press on with Genetics, once Computers comes in in 6.

9) I sign Open Borders with Hatty so that I can use her poaching city on Mansaland as a staging post.

Rrrright then!

Turn 1 (1996): Nothing finishes. At all. I move some ships around and, well, that's it really.

Turn 2 (1997): Mansa cancels our Crab/Musical/Wine for Wheat/Gold/Spice deal. Fair enough, really, since we're going to attack him anyway. Hatty immediately offers us Wheat for a spare Incense, which I take. No cities become either unhappy or unhealthy as a result, so I don't bother scouting for any new deals just yet.

A Tank and a Navy Seal finish. Once again, some stuff moves.

I drop the science rate to 60%. Computers still in 4, but we'll have a thousand or so gold on hand for the first upgrades once it does come in, and I'll attack the turn after that. I should be in position by then. The only real reason not to attack right now is that there isn't enough defense in the outpost cities on Mansa's continent, though, and that may not be a good enough reason.

Turn 3 (1998): Only one build finishes, and that's a random Temple in ex-France. What's with this? We have 30+ cities, and only four of them have built anything!

I change my mind about waiting for Composites, I think I can take a couple of cities in the next four turns, that would be wasted otherwise. We may well be against the clock here, after all.

...

RB15pact.jpg


Doing, thankfully, a last-minute check, I discover a problem. Freddy has a Defensive Pact with Mansa. Neither of them will consider cancelling it. This... could be a problem. We aren't ready for war with both of them. No way, no how. We have no fleet in Freddy's area, and we *die* if an invasion hits our mainland. I'm going to have to scramble a few ships that way ASAP, and build more too. If I have any chance to, I'm going to get a few Sam Infantry in, too, since we're definitely going to get bombed at some point, probably the least convenient time possible.

On the plus side, I get to wait for Modern Armour.

Turn 4 (1999): All the builds ever finish. Figures.

Freddy switches to Suffrage/Emancipation/OR, causing an unhappiness in New York. There's nothing we can trade for, though.

Turn 5 (2000): (still no more spaceship built by AIs. 50 turns left to hold out).

Research down to 50%, Computers still in 1. More stuff moving around, enough that I now have *three* decent forces in the vicinity of Mansa. He'll be going *down* in two turns.

Turn 6 (2001): Freddy completes the Cockpit. Computers comes in, of course, research turned off for at least a few turns.

Upgrading a Tank to an MA costs 200g, so I can only afford to do 5 this turn. We're now at +1401gpt, though, so it won't be long.

Alex cancels a deal with us for a luxury, and all of a sudden I'm looking at 1-2 unhappy faces all across the board, even before declaring war. This is not sounding good... Sounds like I'll just have to target the four happy resources Mansa is holding over our heads (two Modern ones, Spices and Gold. He's got loads of both Gold and Spices, so this shouldn't be too difficult so long as I keep watching, and don't raze cities with Wonders in. I don't actually anticipate doing too much razing, though.

Doing a random scan, I notice something that could be of great value to us:

RB15noalum.jpg


Do you see any Aluminium there? I don't! Unfortunately, from the lack of option to trade it to him it would appear that Hatty is trading him her spare, but it's still something we might just possibly be able to exploit in the future.

Turn 7 (2002): I cancel deals with Freddy at Alex's asking since Freddy's about to declare war on us anyway.

We've now got even more unhappiness, and I haven't even declared war yet. Regardless, we have No Choice Whatsoever. We *will* get outlaunched if we wait. I'll do my best to keep our actual production centres happy by judicious use of the MPs that are lying around.

The fateful day has come...
FOR GLORY!!! (and for Mansa's resources) :p

RB15wars.jpg


Oh no.

RB15unhappies.jpg


There... may be a little more residual war weariness from Mansa than I thought.

Our cities *will* shrink. The only thing that can possibly be done about it is to kill Mansa. NOW. I'll take the old step of whipping something out of any city that's about to starve down more than a size or two, and then I guess that'll be pretty much the military we get. On the other hand... we've got a good military right now. We can take 'em. I think...

COME GET SOME. WE WILL NOT GO DOWN WITHOUT A FIGHT!

RB15thracian.jpg


That's one. Two SEALs lost, and one on the ground. The rest remain on the ships, ready for transport to the next city.

Regrettably, due to the need for Tanks to be returned to one of our *own* cities for upgrade rather than remaining in Hatty's, that's the only one I can take on the first turn.

Turn 8 (2003): We get bombed a few times, not terribly relevantly, and we lose the SEAL on-land, but nothing particularly interesting happens in the IT. In fact the only real counter is an Artillery and a Gunship pillaging by Gao, and not only that but I see an unguarded Transport with a settler/3 mechs that I can kill happily.

RB15ngazargumu.jpg


City Raider III Modern Armour are quite sick, really... (city kept since otherwise Kumbi would control the tile, which would be unhelpful.

Terrible luck means Bonn did not fall. It will soon.

Even *worse* luck means Agades has not fallen. I've aborted that attack with enough units left to get back and be useful somewhere else, though.

RB15agadesstands.jpg


RB15taodenistands.jpg


I can't believe this. I brought four modern armour to a city with all of two mechs. I lost two fights at 44%, won one at 75%, and then lost the last at 85% for the city. Once that last Mech promotes and heals, I simply won't be able to take that city before Bonn falls and I can bring any spare units from that over here. OK, possibly attacking before bombing off the rest of the cultural defenses was foolhardy, but I should still have won!

Even for my luck, this is ridiculous.:mad:


In other news, a Great Engineer is born in Philadelphia, though we have no use for him right now. He's asleep there.

I'm really not happy about the way that turn went. Even for me, that was bad luck, at pretty much the worst possible time.



Turn 9 (2004):

Yeah, that last turn cost us in War Weariness, multiplying and multiplying. Most of our cities have about two people *not* unhappy. I'm therefore taking a fairly serious step. Basically, Every Single City is about to get whipped. Here we go...

Oddly enough, in most cases this gets *more* people out working, rather than just reducing the amount of food eaten. Presumably the amount the War Weariness is dependent on city size is causing this.

Yep. That was more than 20 cities just whipped. All the major ones are still unhappy, though, so all the build selections I make next turn will bear in mind that they're likely to be whipped *again* in a couple of turns.

Also, I can't trust even a NINETY-five percent MA to win now.

I'm getting depressed by this. I'll come back and play the last bits and upload screenshots and things later. Sorry for the delay.

Garath
 
Garath said:
Doing, thankfully, a last-minute check, I discover a problem. Freddy has a Defensive Pact with Mansa.

Terrible luck means Bonn did not fall. It will soon.
So we are at war with Freddy and Mansa?

That could get interesting!!
 
I can't see the save (and the pictures).

Atlas, if you want to play a last round before coming to shiny and warm Paris (at least today, not really yesterday), take my turn as I am not sure I will manage to play a completed 10t before you leave. (I will be able to do that later that week anyway).

Jabah
 
You can't see the save and the pictures because they aren't there yet. I've only played 8 of my 10 turns. I do intend to finish off the other two with a fresh perspective (and hopefully better combat luck! The things I mentioned were only the tip of the iceberg) later today.

Yes, we are at war with both Mansa and Freddy. Yes, we did end up with 6-10 unhappy faces per city before even starting the real war.

Horrible as it may sound, we *are* making progress, it's just that we're losing too much stuff in the process. Three of Mansa's cities have fallen, and we are advancing on more. It just takes time.

He doesn't seem to have as many mobile forces as I was worried he might, though. Now all our Tanks on his continent are upgraded, too, I may be able to speed matters up.

Garath
 
If we can't take Mansa offshore city quickly, because of WW maybe we should accept (temporary) peace, he is not going to build a SS in that city (and hopefully won't give the techs to other) and we can get back to him after 10t.

Jabah
 
OK. Let's try this again. Reevaluation of the current situation:

Freddy has two stacks of units on Mansa's lands for no apparent reason. One of them is composed of Mechs (CITY RAIDER mechs! That explains why they successfully killed things in my city earlier) and may be interesting, the other is a few Rifles and will not be.

I forgot to kill Mansa's transport last turn, but I'm chasing it (and a Battleship that slipped through the net elsewhere) down with Destroyers.

RB15eastcaptures.jpg


I've taken two cities on the East coast of Mansa's lands, and razed one on the West. The captured ones aren't all that well defended yet, but I haven't moved most of the units this turn. There's also a big stack of mostly Artillery on the left of that picture heading towards Kumbi and Walata. Some Modern Armour will catch it before it hits.

Right, back to the actual play:

First off, I kill Freddy's two stacks. The Rifles are cleaned up by Blitzing armour, and the Mechs, slightly more messily since they were on a hill, are taken out by Pinch MAs for no loss. Good.

Turn 10 (2005): Mansa has a couple of subs around his waters causing havoc. Nothing that our stacks can't handle when they aren't bombarding coastal cities or escorting transports, though.

Some stuff finishes, due to the whips:

Modern Armour: 4
SAM Infantry: 1
Navy SEALs: 3
Artillery: 1
Destroyers: 3
Submarine: 1
Coal Plants: 3
Minor buildings: 15ish

There's some bad news too, though:

We've got, you guessed it, some more War Weariness. We're now at +14gpt. At 0% science. This could get bad.

Mansa built the Cockpit. Only two parts to go, though I think he's still a way from Fusion and the Engine, as he doesn't have Fission yet.

Last, and worst, this:

RB15freddyinvades.jpg


As I said, I'd scrambled a bunch of ships to his borders, but as yet they'd only reached the *other* side of his Empire, the one near our homeland. The new Destroyers and some of the units were intended to start covering the other side. I guess I know where most of the new reinforcements are going, then...

On the other hand, we didn't get attacked at all.

Then it was my turn again. I sank the Battleship, the Transport and one of Mansa's submarines for the loss of an unlucky Destroyer against the sub.

Most of the reinforcements from home are heading for Houston, to be met by a couple of Transports (en route) for shipping over to France. The three new Destroyers are also en route over there as quickly as possible, though they will not be enough, as are two more from a little north of the invasion fleet.

As to our cities, most of them have just finished a project, and have been set to things that can we whipped again next turn at your choice. Also worth considering, that I have only just noticed, is DRAFTING. We could get Infantry out of cities that are about to starve down at least two places anyway, for a cost of 3 unhappy faces, cancelled out by the loss from size and size WW. As I said, that might well actually get *more* people into work.

We're two turns off taking Kumbi Saleh, his current capital. I've just dumped a force outside Awlil that *might* be enough to capture it and if not can hang around pillaging or join up with another force, since I needed to free up the ships that were escorting it for other duties. There are a whole bunch of Modern Armour around the east and north coasts, though most of them are healing for the next turn.

We're being bombed constantly by Mansa, but Freddy doesn't have Flight and so can't.

Some cities should probably be left without defenders in France, so that enough troops can be concentrated at the point where Freddy decides to land. On the other hand, we don't know where that will be yet. That's going to be sticky for a while once they do, there are three full transports landing.

Well, there you have it. That's the situation. Could be better, but could be a lot worse too. For one thing, Mansa cannot possibly have the tech for the spaceship yet, and so we *will* kill him before he gets it. It's only Freddy I'm truly worried about, now.

The true scope of the unhappiness:

RB15f12005.jpg


Good luck, whichever of you takes it. Only 45 turns to go.

Garath

PS Save to follow shortly.
 
I can't have it tonight.

Atlas, if you want to you can have it.

We probably should not whip our cities too much (or too hard) if we think we can eliminate Mansa quickly. We will need our production to repulse Fred.

Jabah
 
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