RB22 - Huayana Capac the Despot.

[GreyFox]

Question is: do we keep Rome? That guy is stupid enough to build 1 tile away from coast if I see the screenshot correctly

If we do not keep rome. however, then our quecha rush is for nothing, except for the elimination of 1 potentially strong AI with praetorians, some gold from razing Rome, and exp from this excerise.

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[Qwack]

nice with the promotions TheRat. I think this will be a easy grab with the promoted units. Anyways, keep Rome. Its close enough to not cost us in maintenance, and like you said, if we dont keep it, our rush really goes to waste .

Anyways, darelljs is up for 20 turns.

 

[darrelljs]

I see it and I'll play tonight. FYI, I am in EST + 12 hours. A couple of thoughts:

We are lucky Caesar is building a Settler...he will probably move an Archer out with him. I can't look at the save but from the comments so far that means one Archer in the capital, one guarding the initial free Worker, and one guarding a Settler. Depending on combat odds I will try to grab both the Settler and Worker before taking Rome. Two Workers and a free city would be quite the coup. You guys did a great job setting this up

I think Sailing was probably not needed, since this "war" will be over long before we can produe a Galley. We have a pressing need for Worker techs however, considering we are about to get 1-2 Workers! I will switch research to The Wheel -> Animal Husbandry unless I hear any objections.

Qwack,

I didn't notice this was Epic, do we want to go with 15 turns per instead of 10 after round one?

Darrell

 

[darrelljs]

I've been thinking a bit more about our long term strategy. I think after we hit Animal Husbandry we should nail Pottery and then Priesthood. Build The Oracle while researching Bronze Working and use it to select Metal Casting. Now, not being Industrious that is an atypical move, but there are two reasons.

The first reason is that with Gems and Gold Forges will give two happiness. As to the second reason, I propose we build a Forge in the capital and run an Engineer. We use the Great Engineer not to build a wonder but to research Machinery. That is a key tech for us because of all that jungle covered grassland down south. No hills and no slavery, so the only way to get production is watermills or workshops. It also gets us damn close to Guilds and Knights .

Thoughts?

Darrell

 

[Ozbenno]

I've been thinking a bit more about our long term strategy. I think after we hit Animal Husbandry we should nail Pottery and then Priesthood. Build The Oracle while researching Bronze Working and use it to select Metal Casting. Now, not being Industrious that is an atypical move, but there are two reasons.

The first reason is that with Gems and Gold Forges will give two happiness. As to the second reason, I propose we build a Forge in the capital and run an Engineer. We use the Great Engineer not to build a wonder but to research Machinery. That is a key tech for us because of all that jungle covered grassland down south. No hills and no slavery, so the only way to get production is watermills or workshops. It also gets us damn close to Guilds and Knights .

Thoughts?

Darrell

It really depends on our longer term goals in the game. Are we blood thirsty Incans out for death and destruction ? If so, this sounds a good strategy (would we get Oracle at this stage though (non-industrious and no marble)? and if so, what will we be missing by going for it?). Given the variant and Huayana's aggressive nature conquest might be best?!?! If we want to pursue a different strategy maybe not. Anyway, if we build Oracle and run an engineer no guarantee that Great Person will be GE.

EDIT: Of course, we'll own Rome by then so can streamline GP production.

Machinery more intrigues me because of Maces and we need Civil Service for that (which is probably more useful). CS sling anyone? Maybe not...

I'm sure all that indecisiveness (is that a word?) has helped you all greatly.

Let's just build the Pyramids for the hell of it.

 

[darrelljs]

(0) - I move the two Quecha stack NE. I am going to post them on the spot two diagonal moves NE of Rome, so I can attack the turn after declaring war. I also switch research to The Wheel since there has been no dissent. Rome has Marble in it’s fat cross

(1) - Quecha #5 comes in, I start a Workboat. Growth is in four turns so I hold off switching to the plains hill, Workboat currently due in 15. I roll the Quecha towards Rome although frankly I won't need him.

(2) - Buddhism founded and adopted by Louis.

(3) - Meet Japan. Based on the number of civs met so far, this is obviously a Pangaea style Fractal map. Wolf dies attacking, and I take the Cover promotion.

(4) -

(5) Grow to size four and hit unhealthy. Work the Cows and a plains hill. Workboat in 9. Rome builds our Worker, err...I mean her Settler.



(6) - Patience...patience...

(7) So Rome sticks the Settler/Archer pair on the Mine. I know that the fog contains another Archer, which I don't plan on ever fighting. Based on the terrain, I believe if I move in the direction indicated by the arrows, the Settler/Archer pair will move SE and be a total sitting duck.



(8) And sure enough, Caesar falls for the bear trap . In addition, the foggy Archer moves onto the Mine, and will disappear when Rome is taken next turn.



I kill the Archer and capture the Settler with the Cover Quecha (94.6% odds), then move a Quecha to cover him from foggy Archer. I move our new Worker south into the trees and cover him with Quecha #5, not that it matters. Finally, I move our two Quecha stack next to Rome (which has a Worker and an unpromoted Archer).

(9) Insult to injury, we kill the Archer at only 28.6% odds, capturing Rome, a Worker and 102 gold. I leave the Quecha unpromoted (he'll heal in four turns). Both Worker's are set to connect Rome with Cuzco.

(10) – Build roads. Scout.

Darrell

 

[darrelljs]

(11) – Build roads. Scout.

(12) – Build roads. Scout.

(13) – Rome comes out of resistance and we are losing 2 gold per turn. I debate an Obelisk, but decide to start another Quecha. Barbarians should be showing up.

(14) Workboat comes in. I debate a Settler, but decide to start another Quecha. Where are the barbarians?

(15) Build roads. Scout.

(16) Build roads. Scout.

(17) Tokugawa adopts Slavery. Didn’t he get the memo?

(18) Cuzco builds a Quecha and starts on a Settler, due in 17. Unit supply cost at 1.

(19) Cyrus adopts Slavery.

(20) Animal Husbandry comes in and…two Horses but not in easy to claim locations. Rats. I set the research path to Pottery, but we can discuss further.

We are getting close to connecting Rome and Cuzco:



We have six Quechas, which is probably enough for now. Some need to guard the road unfortunately; I am sure there are barbarians out there somewhere.



A picture of Persian lands…Cyrus is pretty near. The Cyan doubt is where Persepolis must be.



Here is a recommended dotmap. I suggest we hit five cities quickly and start really laying down some Cottages. Lots of good resources to be had.



And the save can be found at:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135085&stc=1&d=1155050694

Darrell

 

[darrelljs]

Well, shoot me for a noob. First post with attachments. ThERat, if you can explain to me how to make my images appear inline with the text instead of the crap I am looking at, and how to make my save appear as a hyperlink like you did, I sure would appreciate it.

It really depends on our longer term goals in the game. Are we blood thirsty Incans out for death and destruction ? If so, this sounds a good strategy (would we get Oracle at this stage though (non-industrious and no marble)?:

I think we need to make war, not love. That is why I prefer the Guilds/Banking path over the Liberalism path. Maceman are a great unit but Civil Service is an expensive tech to get to and we don't get the benefit of Bureaucracy out of it. I wish Banks were still half cost for Financial, but even so they will be the most effective way to keep our economy going.

We do have Marble now, once we can get Rome's borders to expand

If we build Oracle and run an engineer no guarantee that Great Person will be GE.

EDIT: Of course, we'll own Rome by then so can streamline GP production.

Good point, I didn't think of that. It might be best to build The Oracle in Rome and chop the river forrest to speed the Forge in Cuzco to ensure we get the Engineer before the Prophet.

Heh-heh...Pyramids

Darrell

 

[GreyFox]

Well done, darell, the taking of Rome is a perfect execution of the plan!!!

RE the pictures: (I noticed you asked TheRat, but I am a busybody fox) you can use the "Upload File" Option under the Quick Link. A dialog box will apear. In it, there is a link to Image shack where you can upload your pics and get a link to it.

I agree that war seems to be the more likely course to pursue. Not being able to change civics will impede us from out-researching or out-producing the Monarch AI, so war is the easier way to drag them down, and keep us on par.

I like the dotmap you created, darrell. very nice. Despite what i said abt Rome being 1 tile from coast, I am tempted to move (1) ISE to pull in the gold and the banana. Then, we can move (3) 1E to pull in the rice. The problem with the current (3) is that it will be food-scarce.

Ok, so the plan is to build the Oracle in Rome, build a forge in capital to get us a GE, and use the GE to rush the Pyramids, right?

I see the save, but will play tomorrow morning. Need to sleep now. Meanwhile, people can discuss a bit .... just noticed that this game comprised of mostly non-US non-Europe players!!!

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[ThERat]

great execution

plan sounds nice, let's get Rome the Oracle

 

[Qwack]

Nice darrell. building 6 quechas to start gave us an extra city and 2 workers. Ill make that trade anyday .

Machinery might be a possibility, but if we get the ivory, we can use it for war elephants. Personally, I like the idea of expanding to 5-6 cities first, then starting our next war with elephants/cats.

Also, we should improve the tiles around our capital soon. Road will only give us 2 commerce, the pastured cows and other stuff will be bigger.

Nice dotmap darrell, we should also secure the banana/gems spot once we are about to get Iron Working. Also, I think #3 should be the corn site south of our capital. It has alot of grassland on river so it will be a good commerce city and wont give us alot of distance maintenance.

 

[GreyFox]

Guys, I made one move (haven't even pressed enter!! ) is forced to stop playing.

Why? I need consultation.



Question is: are we going to declare on cyrus? He is likely to settle where the stack is, or move 1SW. Any case, with Cyrus's mad cultural expansion we are going to lose the plants and all that.

To rush cyrus, I would likely halt the settler and rush 1 or 2 more quechas to aid us.

On the other hand, we wonuld be unlikely to kill cyrus with quechas alone, so we might utlimately kill all relationship with cyrus, and be dragged into a bloody and costly war, while the french and japs starts to encroach northwards towards us.

Let me know what the team decides. If it was left to me, I would likely bite the bullet and continue settling (3) then (1) ... we need to be more agressive in settling.

 

[darrelljs]

Question is: are we going to declare on cyrus? He is likely to settle where the stack is, or move 1SW. Any case, with Cyrus's mad cultural expansion we are going to lose the plants and all that.

To rush cyrus, I would likely halt the settler and rush 1 or 2 more quechas to aid us.

I would not declare war for the reasons you cited, and also because Cyrus has adopted Slavery. Quechas hold up well against Archers, but if he has Copper we would be relying a bit too much on the AI's poor tactics. I'm scared to death that a barbarian axeman shows up and takes a city, we should use some Quecha's to bust fog up north for sure.

It's too bad, because after thinking it over for a while I was convinced Qwack's Elephant/Catapult rush was a better strategy than the Machinery slingshot. Now however, I think we are going to have live with Cyrus (at least in the short term). I hate having a Creative neighbor

Lots of good comments on the dotmap

@Greyfox - The saving grace for #3 is that the desert tile is actually a floodplain (unless my eyes deceived me). Farm that and the grassland tile souteast (which we will want to farm to chain irrigation to the Rice) and it should have enough food to work the Gold, Horses and Stone. It will never be a big city, but it will crank hammers.

@Qwack - I had #3 third simply because I was scared of that dog Cyrus. I agree the Corn site is better, but I don't see an AI grabbing it too soon. Of course, there is a lot of unmapped terrain that way, so we should check it out first. Cuzco will be churning Settlers once we get a few more improvements, so we should get both in short order

Darrell

P.S. Thanks for the pointers on posting images

 

[Ozbenno]

I also think we hold off Cyrus (for now) and settle a few cities. That's a nice city spot he's stealing though. Never mind, it'll be ours one day. I would go 3 first as we want to deny Cyrus horses for his UU.

 

[GreyFox]

Sorry I couldn't play tonight ... this afternoon was the only opportunity, but I want to see what's the team's response to a war with Cyrus. Seems like most people prefer a peacful route

Will play tomorrow afternoon.

 

[GreyFox]

Sorry for the delay once again.

Things are not going well for us.

First of-course cyrus must plant this city:



Later, just when our settler has completed, Loius must do this:



Damned. that's 2 sites down. I decided we must settle agressively, and our city #3:



Of-course we won't snatch the stones from Louis, his culture is huge. But I will be damned if we lose that horses and gold mine too.

I am starting another settler, should settle somewhere south to stop toku from expanding towards us.

Despite the plan to go oracle, I detour for BW first. We need to know where the copper is, and we need it for chopping the oracle if that is at all possible.

Here is the resources:



and the culture:



In retrospect, I am starting think I should have declared on cyrus

>>> The Save (1600BC) <<<

PS. I accidentally pressed enter, and thus reloaded from the autosave and played the last turn exactly as I had.... (I hope!)

 

[darrelljs]

So Cyrus plunked NE of purple dot, and you adjusted orange dot upwards by one plot, right? I would have probably just settled pink dot and ceded the land for now, but we can still get enough food at Tiwanaku to work the Gold and the Horses. Lyons looks like it might be on the coast, and it would fit in with the new dotmap.

Good call on the obelisk at Tiwanaku, did you by any chance squeeze out one in Rome before starting the barracks? I think I see a little gold fat man on Rome's city icon, which sucks. If we haven't adopted Hinduism as the state religion yet, we should wait a bit as we'll need the culture.

Hmm...well. I think the change to Bronze Working was a good idea. We are not going to be pulling off any fancy slingshots here. The AI is expanding quickly, Cyrus is already at 4 cities. And our two nearest neighbors are Creative . This calls for Axes. Lots of 'em. Let's use the next Settler to grab pink dot (or grab Copper if need be) and go hard after Cyrus.

Thoughts?

Darrell

P.S. Sorry for all the questions, I'm at work now and can't see the save.

 

[GreyFox]

So Cyrus plunked NE of purple dot, and you adjusted orange dot upwards by one plot, right? I would have probably just settled pink dot and ceded the land for now, but we can still get enough food at Tiwanaku to work the Gold and the Horses. Lyons looks like it might be on the coast, and it would fit in with the new dotmap.

Yes, I think we need the gold and horses. Also, we need to settle more agressively to define our land.

No, Lyons is not on coast. its in the middle of a valley with hills to the north and east, and forest to the south (I think) and west.

Good call on the obelisk at Tiwanaku, did you by any chance squeeze out one in Rome before starting the barracks? I think I see a little gold fat man on Rome's city icon, which sucks. If we haven't adopted Hinduism as the state religion yet, we should wait a bit as we'll need the culture.

I did complete the obelisk, and yes, buddhism spread to rome.

Hmm...well. I think the change to Bronze Working was a good idea. We are not going to be pulling off any fancy slingshots here. The AI is expanding quickly, Cyrus is already at 4 cities. And our two nearest neighbors are Creative . This calls for Axes. Lots of 'em. Let's use the next Settler to grab pink dot (or grab Copper if need be) and go hard after Cyrus.

Pink-dot = (1)? If so, I think we need to settle at the direct south of Cuzco first as Qwack mentioned. I fear Toku is settling upwards. Of-course, copper is a higher priority.

No problem with the questions, it's through the questioning we analyse each other play and learn something (both for the questionee and questionor ).

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[GreyFox]

Oh, I did not revolt to Hinduism. What's the point of selecting a state religion given our variant???

The only benefit, I think, is diplomatic relations.

 

[Catcher]

Delurk

Oh, I did not revolt to Hinduism. What's the point of selecting a state religion given our variant???

The only benefit, I think, is diplomatic relations.

There's still some cultural effects on cities that have your State Religon; something that may be crucial considering your early opponents are Creative. later on, of course, there's also the spying aspect and the "Cathedrals" so State Religon isn't just about Diplomacy in this variant. Doesn't mean you want one now, but it's still worth considering.

Relurk