GreyFox
Make it so ...
great turns, too bad abt the war from Qin, I suspect someone bribe him. Looks like I have a major peace makingturnset waiting for me.
Got it.
Got it.
RB23 - Alex the Decentral....
- Thread starter Qwack
- Start date
GreyFox
Make it so ...
Lookng at the situation, I don't think we can press on for anymore cities, although I will want to take out New Sarai to relief the cultural pressure of Karalorum, but we simply do not have enough troops up north.
I took peace for 500 gold.
Qin settled a city ... for a very brief moment ...
Thereafter, he is willing to pay us 160g for peace.
With peace returned to the world, started trading:
And I concentrated with a mix of military and infrastructure built until we got steel:
Finally!!! Its war time again!!!
BUt ... washy got a golden age
Ok, I can start a golden age myself ...
Heh ... and its time for war!
And, as accurate as clockwork, QIn declared next turn ....
... so I hand off a save with the situation exactly the same as I inherited ... except that we now have cannon. Qin re-settled the city at our south. I upgraded a phalnax to grenadier and HA to knoght, so next player will have 3 units to raze the city once again.
We can (and should) bring Bismarck in:
JC want steel, which think it's too expensive.
The power ratings:
And we are halfway to domination:
I suspect we may need a few cities from Qin to reach domination ....
>>> The Save (1625AD) <<<
I took peace for 500 gold.
Qin settled a city ... for a very brief moment ...
Thereafter, he is willing to pay us 160g for peace.
With peace returned to the world, started trading:
And I concentrated with a mix of military and infrastructure built until we got steel:
Finally!!! Its war time again!!!
BUt ... washy got a golden age
Ok, I can start a golden age myself ...
Heh ... and its time for war!
And, as accurate as clockwork, QIn declared next turn ....
... so I hand off a save with the situation exactly the same as I inherited ... except that we now have cannon. Qin re-settled the city at our south. I upgraded a phalnax to grenadier and HA to knoght, so next player will have 3 units to raze the city once again.We can (and should) bring Bismarck in:
JC want steel, which think it's too expensive.
The power ratings:
And we are halfway to domination:
I suspect we may need a few cities from Qin to reach domination ....
>>> The Save (1625AD) <<<
Qwack
The Poopman
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2006
- Messages
- 836
Good turns greyfox, I dont know if we need to bring anyone in anymore, we can use that gold for upgrades. AI is usually horrible in across ocean warfare, so I dont think we need to worry about Qin or roosevelt, they may land 4 or 5 units here and there, but I highly doubt they will land a problematic stack anywhere on our land.
In terms of if we have enough land on our continent. I checked the demographics, bismarck has 15% with 194000 acres, and the lowest which is on our island has 111000 which is around 9%, this means we have enough on our island since even if the second lowest has barely above 9% we get 33% from all the other AI's.
In terms of if we have enough land on our continent. I checked the demographics, bismarck has 15% with 194000 acres, and the lowest which is on our island has 111000 which is around 9%, this means we have enough on our island since even if the second lowest has barely above 9% we get 33% from all the other AI's.
Got it! Will play and post tonight. I'll have a look at the save but I also would leave Bismark out of it for the moment.
ThERat
Deity
good turns here 
the power graph looks a little scary, but don't forget that the AI is pretty dumb, should be possible to win
the power graph looks a little scary, but don't forget that the AI is pretty dumb, should be possible to win
darrelljs
Immortal
Good progress! I have two fears at this point, one is Washington landing a stack of Infrantry and Artillery on our shores, but that's not in our hands. Number two is Emancipation unhappiness. The clock is ticking, we need to finish off KK in one big push then turn to Bismarck with only a small pause. I think we will need a portion of JCs land as well for the Domination limit, unfortunately.
Darrell
Darrell
GreyFox
Make it so ...
I still think we should bring Bismarck in ... if we don't want to part with our gold, then give him a useless non-military tech and ask him to throw in some gold to us on top of war with KK ...
why?
KK has a city that is in the middle of us, JC, and Bismarck. If Bismarck go in for war, we can leave that city to Bismarck and continue our push eastwards to finish KK in one go.
Emanc is indeed problematic, but could be solved using culture slider. I have a few cities with at least one grenie in garrison, so I am not too worried abt Washy declaring ... I doubt he will in near terms ... most likely he will declare on KK.
One more thing is once we are ready to hit on Bismarck, I think we can revolt out of Judaism ... it will bring little benefits then except affecting our relationship with Washy.
--
--
why?
KK has a city that is in the middle of us, JC, and Bismarck. If Bismarck go in for war, we can leave that city to Bismarck and continue our push eastwards to finish KK in one go.
Emanc is indeed problematic, but could be solved using culture slider. I have a few cities with at least one grenie in garrison, so I am not too worried abt Washy declaring ... I doubt he will in near terms ... most likely he will declare on KK.
One more thing is once we are ready to hit on Bismarck, I think we can revolt out of Judaism ... it will bring little benefits then except affecting our relationship with Washy.
--
--
I heed the advise of the wise GreyFox. Bismark gives us 510 gold and we give him Printing Press and he goes to war on our behalf and we get a peek at his world map.
Replaceable Parts comes in after I press enter. I'm assuming infantry should be our next target so pick Rifling.
I raze Macau again. Settler on its way to stop anyone settling there again.
Cannons are so nice
. Not so much sacrificial but sacrificer and New Sarai is ours. Bismark captures Kushans, the city between him and JC. I then capture Kazans, Ning-hsia and Tiflis.
Bismark has cavalry which will be a pain. They're madly pillaging our soon to be lands as well.
Washington declared on JC, which is not good news. If JC comes a calling we'll have to think about it.
We're going broke so Bismark lends us some cash.
On my last turn Qin finally will accept peace and gives us 400 cash to help. I throw him some corn for 10gpt as well.
As the last act of my 15 turns I take Turfan.
KK has one city and it will stand as long as it takes to get the cannons there and attack (about 4 turns). Bismark has troops around but probably not enough to take it. He might bombard it for us though. We need this city gone as WW and emancipation are both hitting hard. I'm running 30% culture and 10% research at-55gpt.
I've also been doing a pre-invasion stack in Otrar for Bismark.
We're at 36.57% domination limit, with three Mongol cities to come out of revolt.
Not too much to say except kill KK and get on to Bismark.
The Save
View attachment 138972
Replaceable Parts comes in after I press enter. I'm assuming infantry should be our next target so pick Rifling.
I raze Macau again. Settler on its way to stop anyone settling there again.
Cannons are so nice
. Not so much sacrificial but sacrificer and New Sarai is ours. Bismark captures Kushans, the city between him and JC. I then capture Kazans, Ning-hsia and Tiflis.Bismark has cavalry which will be a pain. They're madly pillaging our soon to be lands as well.
Washington declared on JC, which is not good news. If JC comes a calling we'll have to think about it.
We're going broke so Bismark lends us some cash.
On my last turn Qin finally will accept peace and gives us 400 cash to help. I throw him some corn for 10gpt as well.
As the last act of my 15 turns I take Turfan.
KK has one city and it will stand as long as it takes to get the cannons there and attack (about 4 turns). Bismark has troops around but probably not enough to take it. He might bombard it for us though. We need this city gone as WW and emancipation are both hitting hard. I'm running 30% culture and 10% research at-55gpt.
I've also been doing a pre-invasion stack in Otrar for Bismark.
We're at 36.57% domination limit, with three Mongol cities to come out of revolt.
Not too much to say except kill KK and get on to Bismark.
The Save
View attachment 138972
darrelljs
Immortal
Ozbenno said:
Cool
GreyFox said:
It does give us one happy per city, and it would cost a turn of anarchy. I would probably skip it, especially since:
Ozbenno said:
Hmm...I consider that great news, but mabye I'm
. I was worried about him declaring on us, and frankly I still think we'll need JC's lands to hit the domination limit. A lot of Bismarck's land will be lost to JC's culture when we take the cities. I would definitely not help JC if he came asking, we've got enough on our hands. Let him keep Washington off of our back for us.I definitely think Infrantry should be the next stop, then probably Artillery if we can afford it.
Darrell
GreyFox
Make it so ...
Great turns, ozbenno!
Hmm ... calvary are a problem, since their effective counter is rifleman, which we are still a few turns away.
--
Hmm ... calvary are a problem, since their effective counter is rifleman, which we are still a few turns away.
--
Qwack
The Poopman
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2006
- Messages
- 836
Nicely done! I have checked the save, and I have a idea. Ive done the calculations quite a few times to be sure, and I dont think we need that northern city from kublai to get domination land, and war weariness is absolutely KILLING us, some cities are losing population which we cannot afford. IMO, we should peace with Kublai here and start preparing for Bismarck. If bismarck declares peace with kublai, we CLOSE borders with him so his offensive army is trapped in that little peninsula, where we can easily see it and pick it off to our desire the turn we declare. 
Any thoughts/comments?
Any thoughts/comments?
GreyFox
Make it so ...
For that to work, you must be sure of 3 things:
- the yearn to return to mongolian land wouldn't hurt us,
- Mongolia's border indeed have not covered the northern penisula (remember the map iwe got from KK is centuries old)
- Bismarck does not have astronomy
There is also one danger of Bismarck's troops being depotted to the cultural gaps between our newest captured cities ...
I think its too much of a risk, and based too much on the assumption that Bismarck would sign peace after us ... he would likely finish KK off himself.
--
- the yearn to return to mongolian land wouldn't hurt us,
- Mongolia's border indeed have not covered the northern penisula (remember the map iwe got from KK is centuries old)
- Bismarck does not have astronomy
There is also one danger of Bismarck's troops being depotted to the cultural gaps between our newest captured cities ...
I think its too much of a risk, and based too much on the assumption that Bismarck would sign peace after us ... he would likely finish KK off himself.
--
I think Bismark would finish off KK and leave a unfreindly city at our back. For the 4-5 turns it would take to finish it off I think stick at it.
The other thought I had was to try and trade for Constitution to get jails, JC will trade Nationalism and Constitution must be around because of the emancipation unhapiness.
The other thought I had was to try and trade for Constitution to get jails, JC will trade Nationalism and Constitution must be around because of the emancipation unhapiness.
darrelljs
Immortal
GreyFox said:
That's my big worry too, I would probably just finish KK off.
Ozbenno said:
I'll give you 10:1 that Washington is the one with Democracy. Jails are pretty expensive buildings, I think Rifleman to end the war sooner might be a better investment
. However, they are on the path to Corporation (Wall Streen in Hastings?) which is on the path to Assembly Line, so it is a good trade to make for that reason if no other.Darrell
Qwack
The Poopman
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2006
- Messages
- 836
The reason I suggested what I did was because our cities are actually losing population, and it is impossible to get them to a decent situation without raising the cultural slider up to like 50%, which will kill us. If Bismarck finished off KK, thats bveautiful, since we dont need that land to get domination according to my calc's, and the yearn to return will go away. Im pretty sure bismarck wont get astronomy anytime soon, he is still missing some tech's AI goes after before astronomy.
The reason we should close borders and trap his army is, #1, he gets increased support cost if units arent in his territory (meaning he cant just keep training more troops while we build up), also, #2 he is benefitting a huge amount out of open borders because we have alot more cities, so all his cities have 3-4 foreign trade routes and #3, using the neutral roads, we can pick off his army easily I think, since we get 3 movement on neutral roads, while we get 1 in his cultural borders.
Ill play this tommorow so we can discuss this situation, I think we need a foolproof plan here because this next set of turns is essential.
The reason we should close borders and trap his army is, #1, he gets increased support cost if units arent in his territory (meaning he cant just keep training more troops while we build up), also, #2 he is benefitting a huge amount out of open borders because we have alot more cities, so all his cities have 3-4 foreign trade routes and #3, using the neutral roads, we can pick off his army easily I think, since we get 3 movement on neutral roads, while we get 1 in his cultural borders.
Ill play this tommorow so we can discuss this situation, I think we need a foolproof plan here because this next set of turns is essential.
GreyFox
Make it so ...
I agree we should close border with Bismarck, but I think we should finish off KK ourselves. One can never be sure what Bismarck would do, the safest approach will be to keep things under our control.
Versallies would be a good wonder to have in the northern cities.
I am not particularly worried about pop ... in all games I have played that ends up in domination AFAICR, it's always the pop limit being exceeded first followed by the land limit.
I still say we should move out of any state religion, the cultural boost will helps in our land grab.
--
Versallies would be a good wonder to have in the northern cities.
I am not particularly worried about pop ... in all games I have played that ends up in domination AFAICR, it's always the pop limit being exceeded first followed by the land limit.
I still say we should move out of any state religion, the cultural boost will helps in our land grab.
--
darrelljs
Immortal
Well, if it will take four turns to get our troops in position to take the city, we can take the peace now and re-declare in 10 turns, saving 6 turns of WW. It also might draw more of Bismarck's troops away from is cities. The downside is the stack will be a long way away from the front, but we have enough cities cranking troops that it might not be a big deal. The other downside is 6 more turns of WYTJTM unhappiness.
In summary, I can offer no compelling arguements, and I don't have a strong opinion either way, although I do note that my computer is getting packed in 68 hours
Darrell
In summary, I can offer no compelling arguements, and I don't have a strong opinion either way, although I do note that my computer is getting packed in 68 hours
Darrell
darrelljs
Immortal
GreyFox said:
Yeah, I've never had it the other way around and if IIRC, the population limit is only 50% or so, while the land limit is 64%. That said, in this game Qin and Washington have grown vertically so it might be close. The population vs. city size curve is not linear.
GreyFox said:
Hmm...if we do it to me the best reason is to give Washington one less reason to hate us. A war with him will profit us not at all with no Navy, so it is best to let him pick on JC. BTW, what extra cultural boost? Do you mean from cities that have more than just Judaism? I don't remember there being many of those...
Darrell
darrelljs said:
It'll take us 4 turns to get the troops there (due to the cultural boundaries and bombardment) in 10 turns, so I don't think we gain anything! If we take the peace I think we just leave KK alone with his city. The only problem I see (and this is why I say take it now) is Bismark taking it and we've then got a enemy stack in the back-court when we declare on him.
Qwack
The Poopman
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2006
- Messages
- 836
Ok, decided not to peace and finish off kublai first.
Bismarck is being a IDIOT and pillaging all the improvements in Beshbalik. Sigh, I start moving our cannon stack towards beshbalik. While it is moving there, Bismarck comes as asks for a chemistry for nationalism trade. I decline. Qin comes with open borders, I accepted his offer. Well, even though Bismarck pillaged all the tiles, he weakens beshbalik a significant amount by the time we get there, and our cannons easily capture it in 1679, no losses.
I kept it, no reason to raze such a big city. Also you can see on the screenshot Kublai has another city in the north. Sigh, I was hoping WW would go away but apparently we would have to raze that also. Press enter once and send a knight to scout out defense, he sees 1 maceman and 1 pikeman. I decide that Bismarck will finish off this city for us, I declared peace to help our pathetic situation. I tried to get Kublai to give us nationalism for peace, but no dice.
. Bismarck finishes off kublai in 1691, it took him 3 turns to beat a maceman and pikeman..
All our un-happiness magically disappears.
I pull off a few trades. First send liberalism to bismarck for his ~660 gold and world map. Its better to take his gold away so he cant get those cheap upgrades. Also send liberalism to washington for gold/worldmap and rifling. And ofcourse the important one, close borders with Bismarck.
Notice the GNP after closed borders:
I told you he was absolutely feasting off the open borders. This will insure he doesnt get rifling or chemistry for a few more turns, those few turns which can make the difference. Also, his army is about 13 units stuck on the penninsula looking for a way back. However, he is keeping his army SEPERATED like a idiot. We will be able to pick off each of his units 1 by 1 with practically no losses if he keeps his forces seperated like that.
German revolt took place in New Sarai, I decide not to move more units into it. Eveen if it flips, we can take it back later. And remember, if it flips, bismarck will take defense out of his other cities to reinforce that one, which is better for us. We have a stack being assembled on southern german border, bismarck has a good deal of cavalry around that area. We should go after him in about 10-15 turns once we have some rifleman to defend against cavalry. Also make sure his army in the peninsula is taken out the exact turn we declare. This shouldnt be hard considering we get 3 movement on neutral roads.
[edit] I have shut off research to pile up some gold, this will allow us to run a very high culture during the wartime. I dont think we can get to infantry before this game ends anyways, its still 6 tech's away.
Save:
Bismarck is being a IDIOT and pillaging all the improvements in Beshbalik. Sigh, I start moving our cannon stack towards beshbalik. While it is moving there, Bismarck comes as asks for a chemistry for nationalism trade. I decline. Qin comes with open borders, I accepted his offer. Well, even though Bismarck pillaged all the tiles, he weakens beshbalik a significant amount by the time we get there, and our cannons easily capture it in 1679, no losses.
I kept it, no reason to raze such a big city. Also you can see on the screenshot Kublai has another city in the north. Sigh, I was hoping WW would go away but apparently we would have to raze that also. Press enter once and send a knight to scout out defense, he sees 1 maceman and 1 pikeman. I decide that Bismarck will finish off this city for us, I declared peace to help our pathetic situation. I tried to get Kublai to give us nationalism for peace, but no dice.
. Bismarck finishes off kublai in 1691, it took him 3 turns to beat a maceman and pikeman.. 
All our un-happiness magically disappears.
I pull off a few trades. First send liberalism to bismarck for his ~660 gold and world map. Its better to take his gold away so he cant get those cheap upgrades. Also send liberalism to washington for gold/worldmap and rifling. And ofcourse the important one, close borders with Bismarck.
Notice the GNP after closed borders:
I told you he was absolutely feasting off the open borders. This will insure he doesnt get rifling or chemistry for a few more turns, those few turns which can make the difference. Also, his army is about 13 units stuck on the penninsula looking for a way back. However, he is keeping his army SEPERATED like a idiot. We will be able to pick off each of his units 1 by 1 with practically no losses if he keeps his forces seperated like that.
German revolt took place in New Sarai, I decide not to move more units into it. Eveen if it flips, we can take it back later. And remember, if it flips, bismarck will take defense out of his other cities to reinforce that one, which is better for us. We have a stack being assembled on southern german border, bismarck has a good deal of cavalry around that area. We should go after him in about 10-15 turns once we have some rifleman to defend against cavalry. Also make sure his army in the peninsula is taken out the exact turn we declare. This shouldnt be hard considering we get 3 movement on neutral roads.
[edit] I have shut off research to pile up some gold, this will allow us to run a very high culture during the wartime. I dont think we can get to infantry before this game ends anyways, its still 6 tech's away.
Save:
