RB24 - Big Brother

[T-hawk]

Looks like that would make me up now, at least if Atlas would kindly post us the save.

However, I'm in favor of rerolling a more appropriate map. I'm speaking as a veteran of the successful Civ 3 Big Brother game. Our little bro, Xerxes, just became the big dog pretty much all by himself without really even needing our support. We had a great time with the roleplay, but the game mechanics for Big Brother never really materialized.

I see a reprise occurring here. Cathy's already got the score lead, and as a Financial leader with our technological support, she's likely to run away economically with or without any wars. What I want out of the concept is to see us truly make the difference in which AI becomes dominant, but this game has Cathy already poised to do that by herself.

I do like the idea of Aggressive AI to mix it up, but I think the concept will be better served with a new map. I've never been a slave for the "play the hand you're dealt" mentality. Often it's best just to fold and survive to another day.

 

[Atlas]

Big Brother: "Moooooom, Lil' Sis stole my save game and now my friends and I can't play Civ"

Cathy: "I only stole it cause he offended my freinds Saladin and Napoleon, he called them backstabbing fanatics"

Mom: "Is that true, Romulus?"

Romulus: "Well, yeah, but I only said it because it was true."

Mom: "Apologize to your sister."

Cathy:

Romulus: "Sorry, for offending those two (garbled the end of the phrase)"

Cathy: "Here is your stupid save back" http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/64087/Romulus_BC-1180.Civ4SavedGame

 

[Bede]

Since I have yet to get a boot on the ground in this one I am going to adopt the position of the Original Big Brother and vote to reset the map.

Game design is a like modern art in my mind : I know what I like, but don't have the experience or insight to even suggest why. I am but a dilettante, not a connoisseur, a Philistine looking out for the ass's jawbone, certainly not aficionado. So I defer to those who both played the Original and have had a chance to play a round in this one.

That said I see do see great opportunity for diplomatic and economic hi-jinks in this one.

And while you are at it - Sis needs to get religion. That l'il heathen......Get her baptized and none of this furrin nonsense either. Good orthodox Christianity will do jus' fine.

 

[T-hawk]

BTW, I'm holding off on playing until we have a final decision from Kylearan as to whether to play this map out or reroll a new one. (Or I run out of other things to do tonight. )

 

[Kylearan]

Hi,

The only emphasis I picked up in the signup thread was the game rules, not the map flavor, so if one of your priorities was to have signees examine your map plans, it could have been emphasized a bit more.

All things I had changed from your original game settings have been changed for a reason, and somehow I thought people would recognize these changes in my post at RB on their own. I should have spelled out these changes and the reasons for them more obviously so people would be able to recognize and discuss them. My bad, sorry for that.

However, changing map size and type turned out not to be a good change. I really hoped to have more space to settle, as I did not want us to have to climb out of a hole, and the fact that our little sister is shielded by us doesn't help, too. So after sleeping and thinking about the issue with a clear mind, I agree to reroll the map. What I do not want to change though is the "aggressive AI" option, as otherwise I fear the game might become too boring if the AIs remain too peaceful.


I like Sirian's proposal to use a standard Fantasy Realm map very much. I hadn't been aware that this map script offers world wrap on both axes (which might even be the reason for me to start my first private game in a long time!). The script looks like it has more land tiles than pangea or continents, so a standard Fantasy Realms map might be a good compromise between standard and large map size, and will hopefully run on theGrimm's machine as well. Personally, I'd prefer "logical" resource placement, as "irrational" or even "crazy" would distract us too much from the variant theme.


So to recap, here's the proposal for the reroll:

Map: Fantasy realm, standard size, low sea level, logical resource placement
Opponents: 6 (Would the map support one additional opponent, so that we and little bro' would face the "standard" number of 6 opponents?)
Difficulty: Monarch
Options: Aggressive AIs
Variant rules: See first post

Please voice any objections now! All options are open for discussion, although it's highly unlikely that you will be able to persuade me to leave out the "aggressive AIs" option.

If I hear no objections, I will create a new thread tomorrow. Again, my apologies for this false start, especially to theGrimm and Sirian who had to play a turnset already. The upside of this is that the new thread will be called "RB24b", which fits perfectly to the "RB24s" thread.

-Kylearan

 

[Sirian]

I've played a standard-size, all-defaults Fantasy Realm map post-release. (The objective there was to test it for inclusion in a patch, actually). It was a very busy game and on Emperor I was squeezed quite a bit. I would think that adding one extra player will only result in that player being squeezed in to a hole that will then put it closer to two or three civs than any of the other civs are close to each other. This would then be a runt civ, not unlike Napoleon was in RB20, and would actually DECREASE the total threat level, unless by chance Little Bro is the last civ placed.

I like the idea of Rational resources for this game, but I would stick with seven civs. Better that each opponent be a bit larger and more capable, and less likely to be fighting with one another.


I would also strongly prefer to continue in this thread. Many an early RB SG in Civ3 involved hashing out extra variant rules, or other second guessing, and then the game proceeded normally. Why cut out the debate? That is part of the event. ... Seriously. Half the people tuning in to RB1 Cubans were checking out the latest arguments between Sulla and me. People like a bit of spice with their food.


- Sirian

 

[theGrimm]

I was tempted to suggest "crazy" resource placing, but after randomly generating 3 successive "pigs on ice" starts, I'll refrain.

I'm happy with those settings, but l agree with Bede (if somewhat less eloquently)...I'm not too good at predicting up front whether the map settings will be good or not. I am also happy for T-Hawk to pick this one up, OR for us to restart the roster. Whichever seems to make sense to everyone else is fine by me.

If I understand this correctly, though, the ideal would be for us to have a STRONG start? So, perhaps we should allow Kylearan to reroll till he finds a decent one (perhaps with a hill ), or take Darell up on his offer to check the map out?

Cheers.

 

[Sirian]

Oh One More Thing(TM)...

If we restart on Fantasy Realm and you -really- want to make this thing spicy, send the initial warrior east or west, so as to find the first civ to east or west. That would increase exposure and threat levels by giving us only one border with brother, compared to us plus Little Bro lining up vertically, occupying an entire longitudinal slice and sharing two borders.


- Sirian

 

[Atlas]

Sounds good

 

[Kylearan]

Romulus woke up, sweating and panting heavily. He had had another one of those nightmares...looks like his quest of finding his little brother put too much stress on him, and now he got haunted in his sleep by his failure so far. It was the same kind of nightmare he had every night: One of his scouts would report back that they finally had made contact with their lost tribe, but to his horror the tribe was always led by...a woman!!! One night, it had been a virgin with a very sexy accent called "Joan". This night, it had been a very beautiful woman called "Cathy"...oh the horror! The lost tribe ruled by a woman?!? And him having, uh, unclean thoughts about his very own sister? The thought made him feel deeply ashamed (but a little aroused as well...)

He sighed heavily. At least there was one thing he liked about his dreams: Every time, their own tribe had decided to settle down so that they could better make use of the lands. That way, they had been able to feed more people and could send out more scouts to find Remus. That idea was very good, and so Romulus ordered his people to do the same, and found Rome in 4000BC.

He thought about training a worker, but he had no idea what the worker should do once he would be finished. So instead, he ordered his people to train another warrior, to search for Remus. He was so desperate to find him that he even sent away their only military protection to look for his little brother.

But even before the second warrior scout was finished, they made contact - Remus had sent a scout of his own, who now had found us!

But it looks like Remus has gone slightly mad in the time I wasn't able to watch over him - he calls himself "Monty the Mad" and wears silly feathers and a skull on his head now! While I appreciate his aggressive way of thinking, his behavior also makes me a bit nervous. He seems to be a bit schizophrenic, as he sometimes forgets that I'm his big brother...hope that he won't cause any trouble.

Only a few years later, our scouts make another contact:

This man calls himself "Alex" and seems to be a real lunatic. I don't like his arrogant manners! His scout came from the north, by the way.

In 3520BC, our scout meets this...uh, woman (I hesitate to call this horrible creature "woman", as it is an insult to humankind):

The gods want to punish me for my dreams, it seems - only lunatics and ugly women live in this world. This trend continues when we find another strange person: A man who wears artificial hair on his head and a strange mustache.

"handsomest and best-dressed ruler"?!? Am I having nightmares again?

And last but not least, we meet a religious woman who would have the potential to look good - if only she wouldn't bear such an arrogant look on her face...

*sigh* Reality can be harsh...Anyways, I have trained a worker by now, who successfully managed to put the cattle to good use. He is now trying to do the same to the elephants nearby, although his first experiments involving lassos and funny hats didn't quite work out. We shall give him a bit more time, though.

Meeting all these crazy people has made me very tired. At least I've finally found our little brother! I will make sure he's fine and won't get bullied by the others, although his somewhat maniacal behavior still makes me nervous. We shal see...I will rest now. I almost wish I will have one of those dreams again, because compared to reality they cannot really be called nightmares after all. At least the women look good there...

-Romulus

 

[Kylearan]

I've permutated the roster a bit so that not the same people have to play the first turns again.

Roster:
Kylearan
Bede -> UP NOW
T-hawk -> on deck
theGrimm
Sirian
Atlas


-Kylearan

 

[LKendter]

But it looks like Remus has gone slightly mad in the time I wasn't able to watch over him - he calls himself "Monty the Mad" and wears silly feathers and a skull on his head now! While I appreciate his aggressive way of thinking, his behavior also makes me a bit nervous. He seems to be a bit schizophrenic, as he sometimes forgets that I'm his big brother...hope that he won't cause any trouble.

I don't know if you could have picked a worse civ for your "brother"...

I suspect this is going to be a blast to watch.

 

[Bede]

This is a fine kettle of fish you've caught for us Horroshow!! Time to brew some chai and polish the bovver boots.

Two queens, or is that three, and a poofter in a breastplate! Not to mention a Little Brother who should be living in an attic where he can pull wings off flies undisturbed.

Got it for tonight.

 

[theGrimm]

Monty? This. Is. Bad.

Then again, if we can get Monty to Friendly (anyone have some insight on how hard that might be), and we keep him welled teched, we can rely on him to defend himself.

There's a variant rule that concerns me, though. How do we ensure he wins BY SPACESHIP?

And him having, uh, unclean thoughts about his very own sister? The thought made him feel deeply ashamed (but a little aroused as well...)

I'm concerned by the sort of fiction you appear to read....

Thanks for switching the roster. Hopefully I can finished Adventure 13 AND this this week, but if not, I'll give priority to this.

 

[Liquidated]

yes really, goal should be get 'friendly' with monty the mad now so lil brother doesn;t go ape #$%^#$% on your @#%@#%^

All really you are missing is swap out vicky for mr. khan and you have the love boat

Cheers!
-Liq

 

[theGrimm]

Argh!!! 50 points and one of 'lil brothers "walks" to anyone who can make a decent dotmap of that shambles...

 

[Kylearan]

Hi,

Argh!!! 50 points and one of 'lil brothers "walks" to anyone who can make a decent dotmap of that shambles...

We will have a wider view of our surroundings after the next turnset, maybe that will make it easier. The first warrior I had sent east to 'circumnavigate the globe', to get a feel how wide the map is, but we already have a second warrior mapping out our immediate surroundings. I sent him counter-clockwise around Rome, and he's healing from a fight against some lions right now, but will be able to continue scouting in a turn or two.

I also suggest going for Bronze Working after The Wheel. With this lot around us, it's never too early to have access to axemen...

-Kylearan

 

[T-hawk]

There's a variant rule that concerns me, though. How do we ensure he wins BY SPACESHIP?

We go Sherlock Holmes. We make everything else impossible, so whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

If he's Friendly with us, he can't get conquest. If he actually gets big enough to threaten domination or a diplomatic self-vote, we should be getting ourselves big enough to counter that. (We can abstain rather than voting for him. Although Monty winning by diplomacy would be hilarious.) And the AIs never go for culture. So that leaves space, with the only unstoppable threat to that being time.

Did Kylearan enable Permanent Alliances? That would be an appropriate rule for this game, I think.

 

[Sirian]

I don't see a lot of rivers near us, but there is one to the north. I would look there for second city site. (Rivers transform any ice in to flood plains, any flat tundra in to farmable lands, although the oases will not appear next to a river and a couple of those can be a big deal, too).

- Sirian

 

[Atlas]

This is a fine kettle of fish you've caught for us Horroshow!! Time to brew some chai and polish the bovver boots.

Gdey ty zauchil eti slova?

Monty the Lil' Bro, by spaceship. It truely is a fantasy realm.