RB27 - Barbarian Tokugawa (No civics Immortal)

[darrelljs]

Uh, wow. I think we've lost. I'm pretty sure of it. A warrior rush just ain't going to work IMHO, but I guess we should play it out. That's easy to say when I don't expect another turnset

In terms of numbers, geez...figure he's got three archers in the city with 40% cultural defense (if he has one Axe it is over) +25% fortify bonus ahd 25% city defense bonus they are at strength 5.7. Our Warriors are at +35% assuming we take Cover, so that is strength 2.7. I'd say we need 9-10 to contemplate it, but by the time we have that many it will probably be too late. I think we have to assume only two Archers and some luck and go in with 6.

Darrell

 

[sooooo]

lurker's comment: You guys don't fancy expanding peacefully for a while and researching iron working? Timing a settler to coincide with IW should have a much better chance than a warrior rush.

 

[Atlas]

lurker's comment: You guys don't fancy expanding peacefully for a while and researching iron working? Timing a settler to coincide with IW should have a much better chance than a warrior rush.

That assumes that it won't be settled by then and that such a spot will be available. Archer rush, is that any more feasible? At least then an Axe won't ruin it

 

[darrelljs]

Well, Writing is due in one turn, we could try and run some Scientists and research Alphabet then trade our way to Iron Working (or possibly Construction with a severe amount of luck), but we won't have the hammers to build enough of a threat to take out Russia is my fear.

Darrell

 

[ThERat]

I vote to go down in flames with a never tried before warrior rush...

Trying to get to IW with 2 meagre cities ain't work.

 

[Mutineer]

<---- Just want to point out ( in offhand supperior way ),
that if you did follow my plan to settle gold and try for Oracle you probably would got Iron working as minimum very soon

 

[darrelljs]

<---- Just want to point out ( in offhand supperior way ),
that if you did follow my plan to settle gold and try for Oracle you probably would got Iron working as minimum very soon

True, but as I said earlier:

This game has no obvious path although I'm sure with hindsight we'll know what to do

Now, I don't have a lot of Immortal wins under my belt, but the few I do have involved a successful early rush. Going the builder path it just seems like we inevitably fall further behind. We can keep up in tech with The Oracle and an Alphabet bee line, but we can't keep up in hammers or population, which in the end is certain doom. I'll be curious to see how the Deity game you setup ends up, since no one seems to have pulled a successful rush (I am tempted to play from Qwack's save but go rush since he decided to go GL). You did say it was more for learning and my own save was D.O.A.

Darrell

 

[darrelljs]

I vote to go down in flames with a never tried before warrior rush...

Trying to get to IW with 2 meagre cities ain't work.

Well, we could probably due it with Writing. Just whip a library and run two Scientists...oh wait .

I'm game for a Warrior rush. We are aggressive so we can get the Cover promotion off the bat with a half cost barracks. Take the Hindu holy city and try to get peace as soon as possible, then build up a "real" army. Like you said it has never been done before to my knowledge, so why not try it?

Darrell

 

[Ozbenno]

OK I'll build up an army of fearsome warrior, research Archery after Writing and who knows?

I'll also hold off the settler for now?? Won't play until tonight so if any dissenting voices be heard now!!!!

 

[Ozbenno]

Well the plan is set. Warrior rush it is .

Writing comes in and Archery is picked (due in 9), may as well have a couple of crack troops. I Open Border with Peter and get a warrior scouting the terrain.

Correct guess on Hindu Holy City .



I decide to settle the third city and get a dissenting blue circle. Why?



Let's investigate shall we.



Nice .

OK I stopped right there and hand over to Atlas for three reasons.

1) I assume we want to resume axe rush plans!

2) What tech do we want to go for after Archery (which we probably didn't want now we have copper). I picked Alphabet but Iron Working might also be good.

3) I've taken far too much time over this already.

A save

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/88650/RB27_-_Barbarian_Tokugawa_BC-1540.Civ4SavedGame

 

[Atlas]

Ok, I have and see the save, but since today is Thanksgiving I won't be playing until tomorrow. A few issues though, there is barb city right next to our newest, Also, where do we want that city settled?

 

[Ozbenno]

I think blue circle as we can mine the copper straight away, get the worker cracking now (and I'd start another worker in another city.)

 

[Atlas]

T1- Found Tokyo, it is one tile off the coast but claims the gold and immediately claims the floodplains. Research is set to Alphabet (due in about 31 turns at sustainable research). This turnset, i am gonna try and a worker out and something to defend our cities.

T2- Hinduism spreads in Osaka.

T3- Oracle BIFAL.

T4-Monty comes asking for Open Border, sure why not.

T11- We get another barb city, right where I would have wanted one too.



I have dispatched an archer to sit in the woods outside of the barb city to keep barbs from wandering around "empire."

T16- Peter Want us to cancel our deals with Hatty, uh no!

And I stop here the dates are now evened out, and it was a natural stopping place since copper will be hooked up next turn. I built a worker, a few warroirs and and archer, not much else to build, since I didn't want to tie up cities with long library builds since we would be building axes soon.

 

[Atlas]

And the save

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/64087/RB27_-_Barbarian_Tokugawa_BC-1000.Civ4SavedGame

 

[Qwack]

Wow, I was gone for a few days and all this stuff happens?

Atleast we got another source of copper so we can hopefully still pull off a axeman rush quickly enough. Anyways I think im up so I got it.

 

[tycoonist]

damn i was looking forward to a warrior rush (ive tried it but it was a complete failure) but alot of fun watching one axe chop his way through a pile of warriors

 

[Atlas]

damn i was looking forward to a warrior rush (ive tried it but it was a complete failure) but alot of fun watching one axe chop his way through a pile of warriors

This offensive may be short lived anyway as it will be a 2 front war 1 versus Peter and the other versus the Barbs. While I have detailed an archer to a wooded tile near the northern city to choke that barb city, but the southern city still needs some type of unit to choke it to prevent barbs spawning into the soft underbelly of our civ.

 

[Qwack]

Turns complete. Overall everything was fine, didnt need to tweak anything, I did switch from library to axeman in Osoka though. I press enter and St.Augustine lets us know we are hopeless .



Like we didnt know. Anyways, Frederick comes over and asks for open borders on turn 2, which I agree with. I also set tokyo to maximize hammers once it grew to size 3, we are now pushing out 8 hammers per turn from tokyo, which isnt half bad for size 3. I deleted 1 warrior to help with unit upkeep. In 925 BC, look at what happens..



If only we had gotten back that copper what.. 30 turns ago... . That will help with building axeman though. In 895 BC, I switched from axeman to spearman so we can keep away from the unit upkeep for a few more turns. (I suggest doing this if we have to build anything other than axeman).



I was checking the resource situation every turn and in 850 BC pull off this deal with hatty:




That will help our happiness situation. For now, I would say we should keep the max production until we have around 8-10 axes and switch to growth after that in Tokyo and Osoka. Overall, I dont think we are in such a horribly bad position anymore. If we can pick up St.Petersburg and Novgorad in the war with Peter, and extort a tech or two, and then get the 2 barb cities afterwards, we will have a ncie core of 7 cities and enough pillage money to research up to Code of laws for cheap courthouses. Lets see what happens.. TheRat gets to finish building as many axeman as we need for this upcoming war(I think 8 should be enough for St.Petersburg). We should go after novgorad first with like 4 axes, which will give us some promotions to go after St.Petersburg after that.



Save:

 

[ThERat]

save

build axes as laid out, used some barbs to promote one axe

then suddenly our ivory deal for copper got cancelled due to mising trade network. had to drop research to 50%

turn 7: I decide we can attack with 4 axes next to Novgorod


no losses

use cash to turn up research to 100% to get alphabet next turn
used it to get masonry for writing from Monte. Did not trade alphabet yet

decided to play past 10 turns, reached St. Peter on turn 12 and discovered this



next turn he has 3 archers inside, lose 3 axes, but take the city with the last spear



We should go for peace as soon as possible and extort cheap techs from Peter. I went for IW as only Peter has it and doubtfully trades it. To get to CoL we need some cheap techs I hope we can trade for (extort)

Monte might be up for something, though it could be the barb cities as we do have open borders with him. His 4 troops are near Novgorod I scrambled units, but we only have 2 warrios near. If he attacks we will have 2 axes to help out soon.

 

[ThERat]

we should discuss the plans. I like what quack has laid out. Get the barb cities as well (they do have plenty of archers inside) and develop those 7 cities.

We do need more luxes as we can't whip etc. Lucky we do have shield rich places, but research is horrid.
I hope we can extort some techs from Peter and then trade some, as we still have the alphabet monopoly.
CoL is usually neglected by the AI as well. Hope IW could help us as well on the way. We do need cottages in our flood plains.

Oh I forgot, I actually started a library in the south to be able to claim that gold.