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RBC - 14D Conquistadores!

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by Gobi Bear, May 17, 2004.

  1. Gobi Bear

    Gobi Bear BreakAway Games

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    Sorry about the slow start everyone. RL is a bit time-consuming these days.

    This is the Spanish entry in the Age of Discovery succession games. Our lineup is as follows:
    -- Gobi Bear
    -- Cuivienen
    -- Hotrod
    -- open slot

    Please check in when you get a chance. Let me know what version you are using as well.

    I'm not opposed to adding a 5th player too.

    STYLE RULES
    1. Must completely eliminate 3 of the 4 Native American civs (as was done historically)
    2. Can not declare war on Netherlands (which started this period as a Spanish colony)
    3. If Netherlands declares war, must eliminate all Dutch cities in Europe (representing putting down the Dutch independence movement)
    4. May not ally with any country in Europe with a Protestant government

    And a bonus (not required, but the Pope will bless us greatly if we achieve it) if no Protestant government reigns in Europe at the end of the game.

    More info on our start soon. And feel free to start the strategy discussions.
     
  2. Cuivienen

    Cuivienen Chieftain

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    Signing in. Not much else to say at this point. I have 1.15 installed, but I can upgrade to 1.22 on a different install if necessary.
     
  3. hotrod0823

    hotrod0823 Chieftain

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    I'm here but will be MIA starting Wednesday night through Sunday.

    I am still running 1.15 and haven't upgraded
     
  4. Gobi Bear

    Gobi Bear BreakAway Games

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    I'm still on 1.15 too. So let's stick with that one. No sense for us ALL to upgrade.

    Looking for a 4th player! Anyone? Anyone?
     
  5. Merepatra

    Merepatra BreakAway Games

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    I'll take the 4th spot thanks if that ok.
     
  6. Gobi Bear

    Gobi Bear BreakAway Games

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    Hey, Mere! It most certainly is.

    I know Mere has played this one a few times. Any experience with Age of Discovery for you guys hotrod or Cuivienen? Was wondering how much of a scenario explanation we needed before diving in for the strategy discussion.
     
  7. Cuivienen

    Cuivienen Chieftain

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    I've played this scenario numerous times, as the Maya, Aztecs, England and France in an SG. I certainly don't need a scenario briefing.
     
  8. Gobi Bear

    Gobi Bear BreakAway Games

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    OK, we'll assume that HotRod has either played it before or can get up to speed using the Civilopedia or some of these SG threads.

    So time to talk strategy. He are my thoughts:

    MUST DO ITEMS

    1. Explore Aggressively: There are four native civs to contact and a huge world map to uncover. No sense in letting the AI explore all that when we can do it more efficiently ourselves.

    2. Eliminate 1 or 2 Native Civs Early: Each native civ starts with a single city but they all live on two wide open continents. If we give them time to expand, they will be that much harder to eliminate. The good thing is that the Maya can be boxed in if we get to Panama before them. I say we go for an early knockout of the Iroquois (who are the weakest), along with boxing in the Maya by taking Panama. Then we can take out the Maya 2nd. There will only be one native civ to destroy after that.

    3. Settle a Few Choice Spots in the New World: We don't want the game to end early, so we don't want to seriously invest in treasures. But the gold boost from them is too nice to ignore. I think Cuba, Hispaniola and North Carolina should be strongly considered as early settlement sites.

    UP FOR DISCUSSION

    1. Attacking Portugal: Left unchecked, the Portuguese will win early, causing us to lose time in our Conquest goal. We'll have to deal with them sooner or later. But what time is right? We also have to be careful to take out Lisbon at a time where the capital shift won't actually give them an advantage.

    2. Research: I usually go for Colonization as quickly as possible. Haven't played in such a military mode. What should the path be now? And do we research ourselves or buy techs?

    3. Wonders: Which do we need? I vote for the ones that give us movement bonuses and free colonists. Any others?

    4. European strategy: Do we want to develop any allies in Europe? Any use in ganging up on an opponent?

    5. Play order: I don't have any need to be first. Anyone else want to start us off?
     
  9. hotrod0823

    hotrod0823 Chieftain

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    I have only played this scenario 1 time as the Mayans and never a European civ but I think I can get upto speed quickly.

    The Iroquios are very weak or at least they were in the game we played. So are the Mayans. The Aztecs and Incas were left to expand quickly and did have large empires in the 1 game we played.

    I will be out from Wednesday til sunday so you can get this going and I will join back on Sunday.

    Hotrod
     
  10. Merepatra

    Merepatra BreakAway Games

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    This is my first Succession game so bear with me if I ask some stupid questions ;)
    Has there been a definite decision on what difficulty we are playing at?

    My thoughts on the Up for Discussion items.

    1. Attacking Portugal:
    I would say that taking Lisbon as soon as feasible is best, as the colonist produced by Dias' Voyage every 8 turns is what gives them the huge advantage. Presuming we take their two mainland cities early on their capital would probably move to Ceuta, or if we took that too, to one of their island cities which would neutralise them pretty much. Late in the game its much more likely their capital would move to a city in the New World which would be an advantage to them.

    2. Research:
    My initial thought is to still head for colonisation first, with Printing Press the first priority to get Colonists. We need to be in the New World if we want to conquer it.

    3. Wonders:
    Do any Wonders give free colonists except Dias' Voyage which Portugal starts with? I couldn't see any that did (though I remember in early versions there were which is maybe what you are thinking of Gobi). The Navigation School could be useful, its only 160 shields and increases naval movement by 2 as well as giving an Explorer every 10 turns.

    4. European strategy: Do we want to develop any allies in Europe? Any use in ganging up on an opponent?
    We could possibly ally with France or somebody else against the Portuguese?

    5. Play order:
    Since this will be my first succession game I would really rather not go first, have some reading of rules to catch up on first ;) Any other position is ok.
     
  11. Gobi Bear

    Gobi Bear BreakAway Games

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    Oops, you're right. It is Dias' that gives colonists. I think capturing it and building Magellan's voyage would make us very powerful indeed.

    We are playing at Demi-God.

    I also thought of using France to help beat up on Portugal. The problem is that I'm sure they would march through us to do it. Do we want that?
     
  12. Kiech

    Kiech Chieftain

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    You could wait till Portugal finishes a wonder to attack them. If you can finish Sistene first, they will cascade to Magellan.
     
  13. Gogf

    Gogf Indescribable

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    I'll be lurking :). I have yet to win a Demi-God game, and don't want to mess up the team.
     
  14. Gobi Bear

    Gobi Bear BreakAway Games

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    OK, I've created an initial save.

    Here is a snapshot:


    The city builds show my initial plan, which is:
    1. Build lots of Medieval Infantry so we can use them to attack Portugal with the amphibious assault bonus. That okay? Any preference for Lisbon or Oporto? Should we try and get some European allies? Should we attack in the first 10 turns or wait longer? Is attacking Portugal first a mistake? Should we be going after the Iroquois?

    2. Skip the race to Sistine Chapel that everyone else is going for. Like I discussed previously, I am pushing for the wonders that help us abroad.

    3. Send out all Caravels except 1 (which can hold the amphib units). Use them to settle in Panama (to cut off the Maya) and then to explore.
     
  15. Gobi Bear

    Gobi Bear BreakAway Games

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    Suggested roster:
    1. Gobi -- up first
    2. Cuivienen
    3. Merepatra
    4. Hotrod

    That okay?
     
  16. Cuivienen

    Cuivienen Chieftain

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    Lisbon is the much-preferred target, as taking it gives us Dias's Voyage, a Colonist every 8 turns. Taking Lisbon first will also prevent Portugal from sending out a flood of Colonists early and make it easy to take them out later.
     
  17. Merepatra

    Merepatra BreakAway Games

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    Yes, definitely Lisbon is the city we need to take first, and I think taking it before worrying about the Iroquois makes sense as without it Portugal will never dominate in the way in can with it. Taking Oporto would be nice but it isn't essential early. The rest of the plan sounds good to me.
     
  18. Gobi Bear

    Gobi Bear BreakAway Games

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    Thanks for the input. I have time to play this tomorrow afternoon. So feel free to post here for the next 12+ hours if you think of anything else. After that I'll be taking the initial moves.
     
  19. Gobi Bear

    Gobi Bear BreakAway Games

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    I'm in the middle of the opening turns, but didn't finish last night. Allergies had flared up and I just needed to take some Benadryl and get to sleep.

    I'll post the first 10 moves this evening.
     
  20. Gobi Bear

    Gobi Bear BreakAway Games

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    1490 AD (Turn 1):
    Caravel #1 (Settler, Pike, Conquistador) sails to the Canary islands. This one will settle Panama for us. Caravel #2 (also from Seville) takes a route north of the Azores headed for discoveries in North America (can we beat others to the Iroquois?). No sea lane here though. Caravel #3 from Barcelona ends in Portuguese waters to block the Strait of Gibraltar. How mad will Prince Henry get? Do we care??? Caravel #4 (already in the Canaries) loads up an MDI and heads for the Caribbean. Columbus is on his way! 80% research toward Printing Press (25 turns). Currently that costs us 41 gpt, but we’ll earn gold quickly once we have a good world map and native contacts to trade.

    IBT: Henry whines about our fleet. A French fleet sails from Bordeaux.

    1491 AD (Turn 2): Continuing moving the fleets and working the fields of Spain.

    1492 AD (Turn 3): Hook up a horse. This seems historical enough:


    Columbus Reaches Hispaniola in 1492

    Find Mayan territory, trade them Alphabet for their WM + 94g.

    1493 AD (Turn 4): Northernmost boat finds the Iroquois along the Delaware River.



    Trade Alphabet to them for WM+120. They are about to settle their 2nd city near modern-day Philadelphia. We’ll have to be careful to hit them soon before they grow too much. We’ll be in Panama next turn. Uncover the Aztecs first too; WM+80g for Alphabet this time.

    1494 (Turn 5): Find company in the New World; the English have settled in Maine. I trade them contact with the Iroquois now, before they get it themselves. Up to 394 gold after selling contact for the Iroquois to everyone.

    IBT: Dutch and French appear in ships off of New England.

    1495 (Turn 6): Conquistador heads into the Andes to contact the Inca. Found Panama City and use it to get a ship into the Pacific.

    IBT: Pick up 40 more gold swapping WM with the English.

    1496 (Turn 7): We meet the Inca



    Almost tempting to attack them now, especially if we had more than 1 Conquistador. They may still only have 1 city. Trade Alphabet for WM + 120 … nope they do have a 2nd city to the east in the jungle.

    1497 (Turn 8): Defeat a Seminole camp on the east side of Florida. Rush the Temple in Panama. Those natives need Christianity!

    1498 (Turn 9): 2nd (northern) Caravel returns home to help against Lisbon.

    1499 (Turn 10): Pacific caravel lands the Conquistador next to Maya lands. Only 1 Maya worker in sight.

    IBT: Navigation School in Seville produces an Explorer.

    NOTES FOR NEXT PLAYER:
    1) Sell our contacts with the Aztecs, Inca, and Maya to the other Europeans. Last I check none of them had contact with these 3 civs.
    2) You’re up for the attack on Lisbon. Do it by sea withMedievals. Way want to rush a few more units.

    Spain at 1500 AD
     

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