RBC11 - Cultured Communist Comrades variant (Byzantines/emperor/archipelago)

[Aggie]

Originally posted by Ridgelake
In looking at the map, I would be sorely tempted to send the next settler to the ivory/cow/whale. First build a worker, then start on Zeus. Ancient Cavs will be wonderfully helpful in taking out the neighbors.

I agree. This looks like a fine spot. Especially with the whale in expanded borders. Getting Zeus will allow us to focus on culture and expansion while we still get our troops trained.

 

[Aggie]

JMB, how is it going? I'd like to stick to '24hrs to post a "got it" notice, and up to 48hrs after that to finish and post the turns'.

 

[JMB]

In my got it notice, I mentioned that I wouldn't get to it until tonight... (still within my 48 hrs if I remember correctly...)

In any case, I am working on them right now...

JMB

 

[JMB]

0 (3 if I include the ones Charis played... ) - Familiarize myself with the game...

1 - Move warrior towards the barbs on the choke. IBT, nothing.

2 - Move warrior and curraghs. IBT, nothing.

3 - Defeat fortified barb warrior. Move curraghs. Question the foresight of building a settler out of Adrianople before a granary, but decide that we really can't afford to wait another 15 turns to settle our third city. In fact, I am not so sure about the wisdom of going for the Pyramids (I agree they would help us a lot, but it seems like that is going to keep us from settling say 4-5 more cities that could contribute significantly to our overall culture if they started on cultural buildings right away. I seem to remember that we had quite a time with the Arab 100K victory and ended up having to resort to a military campaign to win...) IBT, nothing.

4 - Notice that the Aztecs have HBR and 25 gold. I could get it, but will wait until the monopoly breaks. I could get the 25 gold for CB, but hold off as I'd like to keep them from building cultural buildings as long as possible. The Vikings know all the techs we do. IBT, nothing.

5 - We defeat another barb warrior and promote. Move curraghs. IBT, a viking curragh sails by our capital...

6 - Fortify our warrior to heal. Move curraghs. IBT, nothing.

7 - Not much. Seeings as Charis played 3 turns, I'll play five more... IBT, we produce our first settler.

8 - Disperse the barb camp on the choke and move the settler towards the cattle and ivory. Ragnar now also knows HBR. It really isn't worth it right now to buy it though, so I hold off... IBT, nothing.

9 - Not much. IBT, nothing.

10 - Not much. Now Caesar also has HBR. I decide to ship Monty writing for HBR and 9 gold. IBT, nothing.

11 - Spot purple borders on an island in the north. Lower research ot 50% with Philosophy due this turn... While the most expensive tech available to us at this point is MM (and so I should choose it as our free tech), I will choose literature instead so that we can start building cheap libraries... IBT, The Hittites demand CB. What to do, what to do... While I don't fear him in the slightest, I don't think we really want to be drawn into a prolonged war with them (it would slow down our cultural domination...) Since CB is only worth something like 25 gold now (Caesar has it already...), I give it to him. We are the first to discover Philosophy, but unfortunately, no SGL. We take Literature as our free tech and begin researching Mathematics (this is probably a y choice though...).

12 - We settle Caesarea (starts on worker), and meet the Iroquois. We are up writing, CB, and HBR on them, but I decide to sell them HBR for 35 gold. Mathematics in 15 turns. The
Aztecs are the only other civilization attempting to build a GW (the pyramids). For 51 gold, we establish an embassy with them. Tenochtitlan is a size three city (2 spearmen) that won't complete the pyramids for another 50 turns... We've certainly got that wonder in the bag (barring someone else getting a SGL...).

Here's the save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/RBC11BC1475BC.zip

Aggie
Charis
JMB
Dwip <-- UP
Ridgelake <-- On Deck
LAM

Good Luck Dwip!

JMB

 

[Aggie]

Well played. Looks like we are doing well on the tech and money front. Mathematics may be a tough one to get at first, but it opens up other technologies and we still should be able to sell it around when being 2nd or 3rd. This is a archipelago map, so full contact will probably only happen in the late middle ages. One thing though: we will get our UU with Map Making! (then again: I assume that we want to start the GA when being Feudalists).

About the Pyramids: I do think that the granary will give us a boost for a long while, so the loss of turns now should be compensated later.

 

[Dwip]

I see it. I'll get there tomorrow.

 

[Dwip]

[0] 1475 BC - Attempts at familiarization.

[1] 1450 BC - Gone fishing.

[2] 1425 BC - Still fishing.

[3] 1400 BC -

[4] 1375 BC -

[5] 1350 BC - Adrianople Settler->Settler.

[6] 1325 BC - I saw the Iroquois, and I was afraid. They've got a lot of land and cities from what I can tell.

[7] 1300 BC - Nicaea founded on Charis' horse white box site.

[8] 1275 BC - Caesarea Worker->Warrior (we need a scout for our inland regions, we really do)

[9] 1250 BC -

[10] 1225 BC -

I'll take one more just to even the years out.

(IBT) Caesar demands Masonry. Well, argh. Unlike pretty much everybody else, Caesar actually stands a chance of getting here. And us with no defense. I cave.

Galleys have arrived. One tries to sink our Aztec scout curragh, but dies, inflicts no damage, and we promote. Yay!

[11] 1200 BC -

Ridgelake gets to have some fun. Settlers, Pyramids, and Math all due about 4 turns in.

Save the Curragh

Aggie
Charis
JMB
Dwip
Ridgelake <-- UP
LAM <-- On deck

 

[Ridgelake]

Got it, will play Thursday night

 

[Aggie]

I can't believe how pathetic the AI is tech wise! We will probably get Math before the rest. What is our next tech? Currency? Map Making will probably be researched by the AI. Same for Mysticism.

PS: The Aztecs have 66 gold. That should be ours

EDIT: Adrianople will riots if we don't attend to it...

 

[Ridgelake]

RBC11-Byzantine Cultural Communists

1200BC (0) Pyramids are due in 2. Adrian will riot next turn so I raise lux tax to 40% for 1 turn.

The AI is horrible with research. Such is life in Emperor on an archipelago map.

1175BC (1) Adrian settler to library. Nicaea warrior to rax. Send settler to the dot due south of the capitol.

1150BC (2) The Pyramids come in. Start on a temple, due in 5. Swap Cesar to a worker and Nic to a warrior. Still no body can offer jack for tech.

1125BC (3) Math comes in, start on Mapmaking. Well, Ragnar just showed up with Mapmaking. So do the Aztecs. So I get full value and sell Philo to the Aztecs for Mapmaking and 4 gold. Start science on Currency.

1100BC (4) Varna founded 3 tiles south of the capitol. Start on warrior. Ceasar worker to library. We are on our own landmass, it turns out.

1075BC (5) The price on CB just dropped with the Aztecs so I sell it to them for 31gold.

1050BC (6) Nica warrior to worker.

IT Ragnar demands Philo. I know that he cant hurt us. But its not a monopoly tech. I decide to avoid potential problems and give it to him.

1025BC(7) Constantinople temple to Mausoleum as a prebuild for Zeus. We find the Americans. I sell them HBR for Myst and 10 gold.

975BC (8) Varna warrior to worker.

950BC (9) Aztecs start the Oracle.

925BC (10) Adrian library to settler. Nica worker to library.

The road connecting everyone to the ivory completes next turn. Then, we can swap over to Zeus.

The Romans and Hitties really got screwed by being on the same island. There is plenty of open space for people to fill.

I have to say that I was tempted to pump settlers out of Constan, taking it below size 6. But I held off, as getting these wonders will really pay off long term.



The Game

 

[Charis]

Excellent, the Pyramids didn't slip thru our fingers, and we snagged both, and are likely to get Zeus. Very well done!

Our own landmass? Woo! No wonder we saw no aggressive settling by the Hittites or Romans. This is most excellent news, coupled with the fact that:
1) our land mass is quite large,
2) our Dromons shall rule the sea

It would be inconceivable to cave to any further tribute demands given these conditions, and given the fact that being at war will make opponents even lower culture, and will give us war 'happiness'.

EDIT note: I easily see those two large islands west of us as being ours at some point. Stage one was exploration, Colossus, Pyramids. Without giving up on Zeus or other long-term items, next step will be to go settler happy and fill up our land (stage 2). Stage 3 after that will be the era where our Dromons rule the seas and after a govt change for a non-Despotic GA, where we should stake solid claims on as many islands as we can nearby. Stage 4 is 'massive culture bldg' stage in the period leading up to about 700AD, i.e. so the 1000 yr bonus will kick in by 1700-1750AD.

Aggie <-- On deck
Charis <-- Away til Feb 12 or 13
JMB <-- if it comes up, plz swap with me this turn?
Dwip
Ridgelake
LAM <-- UP

 

[Lord_all_Mighty]

Got it, will be done by today or tommorow.


Done.

Pre-turn: Take look around, MM a bit saving us a turn on currency in exchange for nothing. Currency in 13 at -2 gpt

IBT: nothin'

1. Warrior pops GH, giving us a warrior. Oh well, it could have been worse.
Road finishes connecting the all parts of empire, switch Mausoleum to Statue of Zues (although for us, it really should be named Jupiter). Due in 10 turns
Lux to 20%, at +1 gpt

IBT: Barbarian Galley assualts Curragh, but fails promoting the vessel to veteran status.

2.Scouting reveals 2 Iron sources and 3 Horses total on the landmass.
Some MMing

IBT: Inca demands Writing, considering their situation (0 gold, no cities what-so-ever) I decline. Fortunately, no war is declared.

3. Varma completes worker, start on another. Recon reveals barb caampsite defended by two barb warriors.

IBT: ZZZ

4. Conscript Warrior attacks barb camp, but loses.
MMing

IBT: In my scouting of the sea, I was forced to end one of the Curraghs turns in Aztec territory, they demand leave which I promptly accept.
Barb horse attacks scouting warrior, losing, but depleted 1 health bar from a scout.
Vikings start the Great Lighthouse.

5. Pop GH, but springs barbs.
Horses are connected
Lux to 30% to keep Adrianople from rioting. We are at -2 gpt.
Checking diplomacy, notice the Hittities have lost a City, while the Romans and Americans have gained 1 each.
MMing

IBT: barb attacks warrior, effectively killing it and ending our recon party in the northern region of the continent (for now).

6. Whip Library in Caesarea
Lux to 20%
MMing

IBT: Our curragh is yet again attacked by a barb galley, but we emerge victorious with no promotions.

7. Adrianople Settler-Settler
Caesaria Library-Settler
Send newly created settler to sugar spot, along with warrior escort from Adrian. No lux raising.
MMing

IBT: *Twiddling thumbs*

8. Varma worker-worker
The Romans and the Americans have both founded a single city, where as the Aztecs have founded 2 new ones.
MMing of course

IBT: America begins Temple of Artemis, and you know what that means.......

9. Check diplomacy for other civs, discovering that only the Americans are in possesion of Polytheism. Decide to take risk and pawn off Alphabet to Abe for 64g (all they had).
Sell Writing and Mathematics to America for Polytheism.

Decide to end turns right here as we are 1 turn away from completing the Statue of Zues and if I had just pressed the space bar and let the 10th turn roll in, I would have stopped it there anyway. All the MMing for the 9th turn is finished and all the next leader has to do is hit the end turn button and marvel at the statue of Zues Wonder that will have just been finished.

 

[Aggie]

Got it.

Aggie <-- Playing
Charis <-- Away til Feb 12 or 13, swapped with JMB
JMB <-- On deck
Dwip
Ridgelake
LAM

 

[Aggie]

Temple of Artemis...do we want to get that? Or would it hurt our culture in the end when we have to rebuild new temples that won't have double culture by then? Note that we are able to build cathedrals everywhere with ToA.

 

[JMB]

Aggie,

IMO, I really think we should focus on building cities, cities, cities. The sooner we get a bunch of them built, the sooner we can start whipping out temples/libraries. So, I'd say, let's not bother with ToA and concentrate solely on getting as many settlers out in the next 20-30 turns as possible (it would be nice to start staking out claim on one or two of the islands near us too...).

JMB

 

[Charis]

It's not an easy decision, but without looking at the details, the ToA interests me. If we were NOT on our own island it would be foolhardy, but if we put one city on ToA and all the rest on settlers, the combination seems quite powerful.

Here's the key point: any new city founded could immediately build a settler instead of a temple, and our growth rate would be literally double. The exponential nature of this style of founding would get allow us to go "city, city, city" and still get a good bit of culture. What's more, getting ToA denies it to our opponents, and reduces what we'll need to double the next civ. (Stylistically, grabbing Colossus, Pyramids, Zeus AND ToA would be delightful, but one must consider function before form )

The other thing speaking for the ToA - by snagging Zeus, we can even more go 'pure settler' when we found new cities - the Pyramids give it granary, the ToA a temple, and Zeus gives it a defender! There's literally nothing else besides settlers and some workers that we would need to build until our island is FULL of crammed in cities. Then when it's full, we build ships and some troops and claim the islands, now with a production base far exceeding our opponents.

Charis

 

[JMB]

Charis,

While the ToA gives the effects of a temple, I don't think it actually gives the cultural bonus of a temple (needless to say, I haven't looked it up in the Civilopedia though). With the ToA, I think you only get the culture from the building itself, but increased cultural borders everywhere, which makes it great for warmongers, but less so for us...

If I am wrong about the culture though, we should definitely go for it...

JMB

 

[Aggie]

@JMB: It gives the cultural bonus for all temples!! Only downside is, that when it is getting obsolete we have to build new temple that then take a while to give double culture. Therefore we should avoid researching Education, while at the same time that would give us cheap universities. Then again: we could first get cathedrals.

I tend to agree with Charis and the reason is that we prevent a big culture increase of the AI that would get ToA otherwise.

 

[JMB]

Aggie,

In that case, we might as well go for it... We should build it in the capital though as we'll build it there most quickly, the capital already has plenty of culture, and we can use our smaller cities to pump out the settlers, and whip libraries.

I wonder how long we can put off getting Education...

JMB

 

[Coffee]

Not meaning to threadjack but new cities do'nt benefit from the Temple of Artemis IIRC.