RBC13C - Tenacious Turks (Deity)

I hadn't checked, sorry :blush:. I'm more concerned about the Abbasids actually, as they are giving the Fatimids a major hiding.

I did know about the resource valuation, but we couldn't afford to buy both quarry and Theology; it had to be Theology first, then buy quarry with the tech (quarry without Theology was still in the order of 15gpt or so ).

By the way, not picking up tech is actually a good idea as you get VPs for any tech you acquire, and we might eventually bump into the limit before getting domination.
 
I see I'm up. However I have noticed that I'm not following this one very closely and that I hardly join the debate. Also, my previous turn wasn't very inspiring. I suggest that you three finish this one, it would only feel as a task that I have to finish if I would continue. Sorry.
 
A few musings on the save:

Excellent work on getting us Notre Dame. The flips hurt, but that city wasn't really useful for anything other than unit support. We'll get it back in due time.

Our MA with the Magyars vs. the Poles is still in effect for 7 turns. Let's not attack until it is canceled. The Magyars still lack Theology, and can give reasonable value for it. (All in hard goods).

We are at war with: Poland, England, Norway, and Denmark.

Money to be made again trading maps. I used some nefarious means, and made 150 gold by trading maps and re-negotiating peace with a few civs we have no intention to attack in the next 20 turns. Hey, the AI extorts money from the player, I'll at least guarantee protection money buys you 20 turns of peace.

It is actually going to be rather difficult to do a surgical strike on the Magyars, their capital is really far away. We may need an ROP with the Poles to hit Pest quickly.

The Byz have just a shade under 15K VP's. We may need to plan on a surgical strike there.

Expect wars to be on-and-off for the rest of the game. The Arab civs have Assassins, and the "sub bug" should keep random war declarations flying fast and furious.
 
Well, since I cross-posted with Aggie ...

If I thought it was confusing to be playing 2 SG's, how about playing (at least) 8! :lol: (I actually think Aggie's sig is incomplete due to lack of space. :eek: )

So that makes me up, unless Aggie decides otherwise. I'll give it until tomorrow evening (GMT -5) before I pick it up. Aggie is always welcome to change his mind.

While we can finish with 3 players, if there is anyone who has lurked this game and feels comfortable with playing the Conquests on Deity, we (may) have an open spot. This person would slot in after me in the rotation, to give them a few days to read over the thread and look at some of the saves. We have 2-3 rotations remaining before the turn limit expires. Post interest in this thread.
 
:lol:
Yeah, I've noticed that Aggie's name has been popping up in quite a few SGs, and when he started asking for skips in some of them I knew something would have to give somewhere. Can't really blame him though - sounds like he has a case of extended feast mode burnout ;)

If you ever get the itch to rejoin us Aggie, you're more than welcome. And I concur with McClure that a fourth would be MOST welcome. With only 3 this one would come around more often than I would have the time to play.

@sub bug: yes, very annoying indeed. Good thing we can't bump into the AI units - we still get the 'Are you sure you want to declare war?' popup. However, if we ever had to build assassins it would be extremely frustrating to have the AI bump into them and declare war.
 
Hopefully, Aggie can get back into this one, But if not, and you're still looking for a fourth, I'd be willing to join, if you want. Although I wouldn't be able to play this round until Sunday evening, so if that makes it easier to slot me in after Caesar, that's fine too.
 
I'd have no problem at all with that :).

Anyway, Aggie, with Sipahi finally around, the fun here is only just beginning ! ;)
 
I probably don't have to mention the release of the new buggy patch 1.20. But I do want to mention one fatal flaw: once you install 1.20, you can't load and play any 1.15 saves.

I have 2 solo games on the go, both are long custom scenarios designed by myself. I don't see myself finishing them for at least another month. Therefore I vote that we keep this SG at 1.15. I hope this won't be a problem for anyone; though it shouldn't be since 1.20 doesn't really bring anything to the table and is quite buggy ATM. FWIW, I would certainly recommend to anyone who hasn't downloaded it to hold off on doing so.

However, if you guys all do vote to go up to 1.20, then I'll have to respectfully withdraw from this game. No hard feelings if that's the course that's voted upon.

I hope TMcClure spots this before playing . . . :(
 
I'd prefer we stuck to 1.15 too until it's clear exactly how well 1.20 works; 1.20 doesn't make a difference to this scenario anyway and I am waiting for more feedback on it too before downloading it.
 
To summarize my turns, I give you these simple facts:

- We completed Notre Dame
- We captured or razed 4 enemy cities
- We lost only 2 units in battle in 10 turns.
- Our capital is still in Ghuzz.
- We have less cities that we started my turns with.

Next post is the long version. :)
 
RBC13C - I'm About to Stick my Foot Up Your pRNG A**!

1185 AD (0)
We are war with Denmark, Norway, England, and Poland. We have 12 turns remaining on Alliances against the first 3 (unless Thea bails out first). We have 7 turns remaining on our Alliance with the Magyars against the Poles. There are a lot of wars going around.

The Byz have all the tradeable assets.

10% lux costs us 28 gpt. Have to see about dropping lux tax after Notre Dame completes.

Adjust a few cities' tiles and builds, looking for 16 or 20 spt to build Sipahi. Rush a few Town Halls. Start a few settlers in our outlying cities.

Only about 2 hours for the pre-turn.

End result of all of this is 100 gold in the bank, and +100 gpt.

<Return>

IT - Byz want to chat. And who are the Swedes at war with? Byz want an ROP and Alliance against the Germans. I am a man of honor (she didn't offer us any money :( ), and decline.

1188 AD (1)
Hey, we complete Notre Dame! Ghuzz goes to settler, so I can set the lux tax to 0%.

Bursa: Town Hall --> Spear. (Frees up Sipahi doing MP duty)
Iznik: Town Hall --> Spear for MP. Then to 4-turn Sipahi.
Izmit: Town Hall --> Spear.
Sinop: Town Hall --> Smith (If we jump the Palace, this could be a terrific city.)
Denizli: Town Hall --> Temple

Even with a couple Taxmen getting fired, income is up to +104 gpt. Now to check on 0% lux ... all is good. Income to +132 gpt.

Elite Sipahi d. Polish Archer. Other units move into position to attack Torun.

1191 AD (2)
The two specialists in Ghuzz get re-outfitted as a Settler group. Ghuzz resumes building Sipahi.

Bytom reverts to Poles, we lose a Horse and gain more opportunities to leader-fish.

Ugh .. the MM around Ghuzz is awful. Can't make 40 spt at either size 10 or 11. So, one turn at 42 shields and -2 fpt, rush a Town Hall for 32 gold, then one turn at 34 spt and +2 food. This nets a Sipahi every other turn at a cost of 32 gold, but saves 60 gold on the lux tax.

Two Sipahi (one elite) win at Torun then regular horse wins, exposing a vet. Archer. Elite horse wins and reveals another vet Archer. I could probably take the city this turn, but I'll sandbag to get two more attacks with the elite units next turn.

Bytom is recaptured, one size smaller.

Spread the WM around for small profits.

IT - Norway wants peace, I say no. Then the Norwegians sign an MA vs. the Fatimids with the Abbasids.

1194 AD (3)
Mugla: Smith --> Town Hall
Edrine: Smith --> Market

Elite Sipahi wins and captures Torun. Still no leader.

Starting to assemble forward group of Sipahi to make an end-run on Pest.

Start Cycle at Ghuzz, rushing Town Hall and switching to Sipahi.

IT - Nothing.

1197 AD (4)
Still assembling stack. Will get a whack at another Polish city, just to burn it down.

1200 AD (5)
Bytom flips to the Rus. We lose two horses. Time to change strategy and just burn everything. Need to bring Settlers close behind the front.

The Byz have 16770 VP. This might be troublesome soon ...

IT - Germany and Sweden sign MA vs Poland.

1203 AD (6)
Built a few Sipahi, prepared for a final assault on the Poles.

Diplo:
Make a few bucks trading the map.
Give the Byz 32 gpt for Silks, our Furs from Sweden expire next turn.
Poland is completely worthless.

We get 50 gpt back next turn.

IT - Abbasids and Fatimids sign Peace. Byz complete Hanseatic League (couple o'turns ago, actually). Germany and England Ally vs. Fatimids.

1206 AD (7)
Torun flips to the Rus :suicide: . We lose 2 reg. Horses. You know, the Rus are winning the Polish war, and they aren't even in it! The game owes me a leader for all of these bullflop flips.

Attack on Warna: Vet Sipahi wins, Elite Horse charges and captures the city. No leader. The city burns, netting us 3 slaves. Elite Sipahi kills spear in open.

We have lost more units, by far, to flips than to enemy armies.

Re-do Peace Treaty with the Germans, it is now straight peace. He would have paid, but I wanted to keep our options open. Income is now +150 gpt.

The war with the Poles continues for at least one more turn. I have to get a leader.

IT - Byz sign Peace with Norway, freeing up another 49 gpt and getting us out of 3 MA's. Rus want to talk, say nothing important.

1209 AD (8)
Elite Horse goes after reg. Polish archer. Elite Sipahi kills spear, vet. Sipahi kills spear, vet Sipahi razes Polish city. This has gotten really irritating. I'm not even getting promotions.

Break here for the night, to figure out what to do. I don't think the war with Poland has any further point, as the attacks would take us farther from our goal of attacking the Magyars and getting a quick kill. We have 3 settlers active, and two Magyar cities are ripe for capturing. The biggest issue is to find the 2nd Magyar king.

We could probably use new MA's to reduce the tech cost with the Byz, and swing a 5 or 6-fer. Have to study that in the morning.

This has been one of those weird games where we win every war we are in, but are still losing. The reckonings are soon upon us. The Magyars might go in 3-4 turns, then we build and consolidate to go after the Rus. After that consolidation period, we probably have to strike at the Byz.

Hit the Diplo:
Cordova: Broke, +Medicine and Polearms. Can re-negotiate peace for a discount.
Magyars: Next victim, 8 gold, no tech.
Fatimids: 4 gold, +Medicine and Polearms.
Sweden: 22 gold, +Polearms and Seamanship. Also has furs.
Norway: Backwards and we are at war with them. Can make peace for 3 gold and their WM. Not at war with Byzantines.
France: 76 gold, no tech.
Byz: 3 gold, Education, Polearms, Religious Persecution, Mercantilism, Milling, Seamanship
Germany: 76 gold, +Polearms, Mercantilism, Seamanship. Straight Peace, so we can declare at any time.
Rus: 6 gold, +Polearms, Mercantilism, Seamanship, Religious Persecution
England: At war with us and Byz. Can make peace for 38 gold + WM. Won't.
Denmark: Backwards. At war, can make peace for 57 gold + WM. Won't.
Abbasids: 467 gold, +Education, Polearms, Religious Persecution, Mercantilism, Milling, Seamanship, Medicine.
Celts: Completely useless.
Poland: At war. Can make peace for WM, 3 gold, 1 gpt. Should I? No, keep leader fishing. If we're at war, I don't need an ROP.

So, start by making Peace with Norway. I can't hurt my brother. Plus this is a completely phony war. So we get 3 gold. Now on to the Celts, to see if our WM is worth anything. The Celt map is no more complete. To the Byz to buy their WM. Total for that charade is about 10 gold.

I have 192 gpt to spend on tech. Is there anything I definitely don't need. Milling and Mercantilism are rather unexciting. Re-sort Diplo by techs:
Byz: Polearms, Religious Persecution, Seamanship, Education
Rus: Polearms, Seamanship, Religious Persecution
Cordova: Medicine and Polearms. Can re-negotiate peace for a discount.
Fatimids: Medicine and Polearms.
Sweden: Polearms and Seamanship. Also has furs.
Germany: Polearms, Seamanship.

Abbasids: +Education, Polearms, Religious Persecution, Seamanship, Medicine.

Start with Byz, try not to trade either horses or gpt to Rus.

Education starts at 155 gpt. Alliances vs. folks the Byz are already at war with raises the price. Oh, we're at war with them too. If I made peace (for free) then immediately re-declared ... that's getting a little (pardon the pun) Byzantine. Hypothetically, that is worth 27 gpt to us. Don't do any of it. I'll wait and steal something.

1212 AD (9)
Win three battles agains Poles, promoting two Sipahi to Elite, but single Elite attack again fails to produce a leader. I may get three Elite attacks next turn. Income goes to +204 gpt. We now have 20 Sipahi. I feel like 1215 is going to be an eventful year.

IT - Lose 2 Sipahi (one Elite) to Polish units.

1215 AD (10)
Two more elite wins without a leader. Another win promotes a Sipahi to Elite.

Final Diplo check:
Nice, the Magyars got Polearms. Now we may have to face Pikes, if they get any money to do upgrades. :cringe:

We can make Peace with the Poles for Polearms, WM, 7 gold and 4 gpt. I would, they have nothing else to offer us and the time is near to attack the Magyars. My leader-fishing at the end cost us 2 Sipahi and a few turns on the attack. We can certainly mount a frontal assault on the Magyars, but time is starting to tick away and a quick kill of their capital would be very helpful.

Make a few bucks shuffling around the WM.

We have 1117 gold. Next ruler may want to put it to good use by stealing a tech from the Abbasids. (Or someone we may be a little less afraid of. Maybe wait for them to get into it with the Byz again.) My target would be Education, as I think that can cascade into a 5-fer. Remember not to bother trading for Polearms, the Poles (ironically) will give that to us for Peace.

Notes on troop positions in the post with the pictures.

VP situation: Us 7480, Byz 17630. Thea is not gaining a lot of points per turn lately because all of her wars are phony.
 
Pictures:

In the east
Turks_1215_East.JPG


Our main force is in Izmit or on its way. There are more than enough units there to capture Dobrich on the turn we declare war, and a solid reserve to waste the initial wave of Magyar infantry.

Sinop and Lodz contain enough Sipahi and a single Elite Horse to capture Szombathely on the first turn. This force can join with the southern force to plunge into the Magyar core to look for the 2nd King.

In the west:
Turks_1215_West.JPG


As a result of chasing Polish units looking for a leader, our troops got a little scattered. It may even be worth using our ROP with the Rus to send another 2-4 Sipahi over to the west. There are 6 Sipahi and an Elite Horse targetting Pest. When you sign peace with the Poles, get an ROP as part of the deal. Especially if our forces are so thin, we don't want to attack any city other than Pest.

Flip This!
 
A few points:

-I look at the Save and I don't see the logic in attacking the Magyars. What do they have that we need?
A) All of their cities are low pop - only two are above size 6. We need to concentrate on knocking off high pop civs, like the Byz, Rus, and Abbasids, so that we can secure the Domination victory.
B) Their geographical location is useless to us. So what if we eliminate them? If we settle the Rus lands and the Byzantine holdings south of us, they'll be less corrupt and we'll score more resources. The Mags do have two cities relatively close to our borders, but we can pick those off at our leisure.

It seems like we've been ducking the 'big guys' too long. Wars against the Poles and Swedes are fun and all, but aren't going to win us this game. We have Sipahis and all the techs we need (see below) - it's time to let our trade deals expire and go after the Rus or Byzantines.
Checking the screen we have 16 turns left on the Silks deal with the Byz, so no go in attacking them. However, in 3 turns our obligations with the Rus are over, and I plan on attacking them.

-Tech: A 5 fer would be nice and all, but what other techs do we really need? We have markets, smiths, and Sipahi - to the abyss with everything else! The only other tech we really need IMHO is Polearms, and we can get that from the Poles for peace. Education? 200 shield universities are way too expensive - and too useless with this short tech tree. Seamanship? I don't think we'll be sailing anywhere soon. Mercantilism? Would be nice to get Ghuzz past size 12, but really not that imperative (especially with our plan to jump the palace).

Now Religious Persecution would be nice - a 4.1.1, ATR, for 30 shields?! That's an unbelievably low priced unit.

Divine Right, however, is very nice, with the 50% tax/25% production/corruption decrease + Robin Hood. I'd rather save our money and steal that once it's researched, then shop it around for Religious Persecution and whatever else tickles our fancy.

In sum, I plan on ignoring the Magyars for now and taking it to the Rus. I plan on building lots of settlers and Sipahi. Since our quarry will be running out, I'll switch appropriate cities to Cathedral builds before it does. We only have 80 turns left in this game, and I don't want to wait until the AI has swiss mercs defending their cities. I'm going to take it to the Rus and raze every one of their cities (well, raze their king cities anyway ;). I'm thinking an alliance with the Swedes against the Rus will help out nicely.

I won't be playing this one until tomorrow afternoon or thereabouts, so please post comments in the meantime.
 
Pretty compelling arguments, looks like a good plan to me. At least with the Rus, we know where their kings started at. One thing to keep in mind in going for a domination victory is we don't want to accumulate too many VPs to push us over the limit too soon. It doesn't look like a problem yet, but taking on the big civs (which we will have to do) will jump them up fast. There are far mor VPs for cities than units. Techs add up to VPs too, so if we don't NEED a tech, we are probably better off to avoid it.

A quick strike on the King cities is probably the best bet, it might be worth it to try and keep the first two you take, then let the 3rd wipe out the rest, if you can do all three in short timeframe to minimize flip risk. A couple more 10-pop cities certainly helps our push to domination.
 
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